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Why?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Bakica, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok. before I start I want you all to know that Im 14 and I dont have much expirience in life so I have a few questions. why everyone here hates government? I mean why do you want to get rid of it. To be free? free from what. what do they do to you? how do they "steal" from you? I dont understand that..its becouse Im 14 probably but anyway I would like to know answer. why destroy government?
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Because we are anarchists. Start reading of anarchism, if you don,t understand what is the problem with government you have a lot to learn.

    So i take it as you use an anarchist avatar saying "no gods no masters" and doesn't understand the meaning of it ?
     
  3. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ungovernable is right, read up on the subject. Also just look around you and see what government has done (or not done). Look at modern society, how people act, how other are treated, how animals and the environment are treated. If you just take a little bit of a deeper look at things that are happening you'd understand why we feel the way we do about government and modern society.
    While at 14 there is a lot of life you haven't seen, that doesn't mean that it's an excuse. There are other people on this site close to the same age as you and they seem to have a good handle on the topic.
    Someone on the site has a signature that says something to the effect of "if you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention". And if you need to ask these questions then you haven't been.
     
  4. Alex Distro-y

    Alex Distro-yActive Member Forum Member


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    Just because there is other people at 14 on this site who have better understanding or knowledge of something doesnt mean that everyone at that age should sure some people at 14 would probably have better understanding on different aspects of anarchism than some anarchists twice their age and myself although I am not quite double 14. it is how you learn and look at things what you look at and who you talk to, its the things and people that inspire you and that grab your attention that you invest more interest in.

    Isnt there a saying or something that goes like the only way you learn is by questioning , or well something like that ease up on Bakia and point them in the right direction instead of critising them for their Avatar which when I looked at the Avatar and then questions and thought well they might not understand it but their heading in the right direction.

    There was at some point where yous yourselves started questioning things and wanted to educate yourselves in ideals of Anarchism or some other things and I say you would have liked a point in the right direction.
    Learn//Teach - Anok & Peace
     
  5. colton_and

    colton_andExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Im 14 to, i didnt know much when i first came to this site but i was here to learn. and i can say it is very true that ur not outraged then u havnt been paying attention to what the govornment is really like. I thought the same thing, whats so wrong with the govornment. I havnt even been on this website along time but some people understand more than others
     
  6. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm 14 too! Lets be friends! Can we have a slumber party?!?!!?
     
  7. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Since I work with kids your age at a the school I work at, I can understand your position. Someone said that just because some 14 yearoldss understand, that they all should, that's rediculous we all come from different circumstances that help us to understand things differently. Also, if you are looking for help and we just say read up on it, that is an asshole thing for us to do, we should explain our feelings then recommend things for you to read... otherwise we are just pushing away kids.

    Sooooo... I hate the government because I grew up really poor, and being at the bottom you really get a good view of how the government treats us. In a capitalist society such as the USA you don't have the right to life, it is something that you must earn... and what fails about that ideology is that it is the people that work the hardest are the people that tend to earn the least. Then on top of that my mother had cancer, and we didn't have enouhg money for health insurance or medical bills so she had to die at home because in the US a hospital can turn away a terminally ill person if they have no way of paying. And if all of that is not enouhg reason to hate the system, we have so many laws that are for no good purpose. The government tells us how fast we can drive, that we have to wear a seat belt, how old we must be to drink/smoke/etc, how old you must be to see a band play at a bar, where we can or can't skateboard, and the list goes on.

    Ultimately it is up to you to find out why you hate the government, it is up to you to find the wrongs in the world. And as an anarchist the most important thing is for you to realize how to think for yourself, and question the things that you are taught and told all your life.

    I hope that helps out a little. If you want to know more listen to bands like Crass, Subhumans, Oi Polloi, etc and actually pay attention to the lyrics. And if you want to get into some reading I would recommend books by Crimethinc like Days of War Nights of Love.

    Good luck, and I hope that you find that anarchism is right for you.
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    i dont understand how u can have 63 posts here and not understand anarchism and ask those question (unless they are hypothetical.)
     
  9. Probe

    ProbeExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    ooo!!! can i join?
     
  10. Probe

    ProbeExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    EDIT: Personally...I wouldn't say I want to destroy the government...just want to change it for the better :D
     
  11. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    it looks like you dont know the answer too. I have read anarchism for begginers and lots of stuff and I still dont get it. like I said maybe its becouse Im 14. but still you didnt give me the answer at all you just pointed out that I have to read more. that not what I asked.
    "also just look around you and see what governments has done" - I see. and then I ask my self whats the point of all this? i mean. I have a good life, Im not so poor and I dont see why the government must be destroyed. I tought youll give me examples like Ring of Truth. and Im very thankful to him becouse he showed me the way. you just said like "fuck the govrnment".
    and about my Avatar - Im against all types of religion and gods. and Im against masters like fascism. my avatar has nothing to do with government. But yeah sure you all think Im stupid now. well I dont care becouse I know that Im just a begginer in all this stuff and so what if I dont understand one thing? I should be killed right away a -.-?
    I have 70 or so posts becouse I have questions. many questions. and i enjoy reading anwers on my questions. if you think thats stupid fine...but I think Im just trying to learn something. and if you are all "anarhists" youll help me. but of course thats not my decision...
     
  12. Probe

    ProbeExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Heres an ebook i dunno if it will work i havent read it yet either but try it out...do you have limewire of something? cause you need it to get this...
    http://onebigtorrent.org/torrents/4591/ ... Guide-2005
    EDIT: actually this might be a good idea? maybe we have a couple of links for some ebooks about anarchism?
    EDIT: go here theres tonnes of anarchist ebook torrents http://onebigtorrent.org/
     
  13. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    thanks.I found myself some good books to read.
     
  14. Alex Distro-y

    Alex Distro-yActive Member Forum Member


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    I have a good life in which is generally not effected much by the government the odd bit of tax and the odd law here or there that is easily broken, but that doesnt mean I shouldnt be angry with the stupid decisions made they might not exactly effect me but just cause they dont effect me directly doesnt mean I shouldnt be pissed off at them. Take example In Ireland where I am from this week it has come out that a major insurance company is pretty screwed meaning aload of jobs will lost peoples insurance policy will be gone and so on thus effect the Irish people in many different ways so the government are talking about bailing out the company (not to sure if they are just bailing out or taking over fully) that doesnt seem to bad seems like a good thing aload of people keep jobs and people keep their insurance on their cars and what not, but what you have to look at here the reason why this insurance company is screwed is casue the owners took all the profits and splashing multi-millions if not billions on jetsetting around the place and spending money on excess crap. Now the government is going to pay off all of that debt and clean up all the stupid decisions these thick idiots made and with what mopney yes thats right the tax payer( the Irish public) and the owners of the company will not be held accountable and everything continues as the rich help each other and government makes sure the rich stay rich. While the people have to clean up the mistakes like this one. Of recent the amount of cases that this has happened with here is ridiculous nobody does anything either an owner of a bank gave himself 100 million euro loans he never paid back unsurprisingly he never paid them back and the bank went bust and the government clean up the mess with tax payers money which could be improved on health care, transport, environment etc...
    Sorry kind of going on a bit but the point I am making is that cause it doesnt effect you or your life you shouldnt care what they do. Their decisions are hurting many people and sometimes not directly, you should care whats going on around you as the people effected need the support.
     
  15. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    so what you say is that I should search for government mistakes and make my own view on that? i hope i got your point. as Ring said I must find my own way
     
  16. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    im 16 can i join or am i to old??????
     
  17. Alex Distro-y

    Alex Distro-yActive Member Forum Member


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    No I am not saying going searching for mistakes well first of all you dont even need to search they are daily in most newspapers on the news and what not, What I was trying to make point of is that even though you may not directly suffer from government policies, laws, mistakes, corruption and all the other shite, many people are getting fucked over and the government help out the rich usually cause they are in bed with them. I am just saying that dont be thinking just cause you are not getting fucked over doesnt mean nobody else is. Just remember you are not only one out there. Everyone gets screwed at some stage unless you are apart of the rich!!
     
  18. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Pay a visit to the slums of big cities, maybe even realize that not everyone is happy with the way things are. If you're living in the US, UK, Canada, and whatnot there aren't as many problems as in other countries.

    The US is in dept, and to fix that, they're building a new high-tech embassy in the UK with a damn moat, a damn moat, can you believe that?

    While people are starving to death every day and losing loved ones to the corrupt institutions, the ruling class go on about their daily lives normally. They permit corporations to destroy whole mountains in order to create some pebbles, destroy forests to make a surplus of wood, and on top of that, they limit us from what's originally ours... The Earth.

    They set up needless borders to limit traffic from one country to another in order to keep a tighter control over our lives. They prevent us from marvelling at what's rightfully ours because we lack money or a passport, we only come once to this life, yet they limit it for us.

    People die at home like some friends and relatives of mine have, and as Ring of Truth said, because they don't have enough money to pay for staying alive. The bastard doctors are in there for the money, they couldn't care less about the patients, my friend's father died a couple of months ago at a hospital because no doctor/nurse showed up after repeatedly using the 'alarm' there so she had to run down to the reception in order to call someone but it was too late.

    If you go on a protest, you'll get beaten up by the cops, showered with fire cannons, detained, and then discredited and humiliated on TV as chaos-inciters.

    Have you heard about that guy who crashed his plane or something due to taxes?

    Well, you will face many problems when you look at things from other people's perspective, the hobo on the street isn't there because he wants to, nor is that person in jail because he stole some food or money there rightfully.
     
  19. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Maybe I misunderstood, where you looking for specific examples from us?
     
  20. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Government means just that- to Govern. As an anarchist I'd much rather have a society based on the administration of things.

    Marxism 101 states that economics is the driving force in history. As such, politics (Governments, the State, etc) is 'superstructural'. Which means politics reflect and reinforce the economic system of a given society. Hence, under Capitalism we have the Nation State as the governing body, whose sole purpose is the continuation of Capitalism. Without Capitalism, the government's sole reason for existence disappears (USSR was State Capitalism it should be noted). If one holds Capitalism as undesirable then one must dismantle the political apparatus that ensures its continuation.

    Now, anarchists differ from Marxist-Leninists in a few important areas (and within themselves, lol). The main way in which the government ensures Capitalism is through it having the monopoly on violence. The State can lock ppl up, start wars, violently break up demonstrations, etc, etc, yet if you beat someone up it is illegal. Whilst i would not say violent assault is good thing (though there are exceptions), the split between who is allowed to be violent and who isn't is determined by the government. If, as an anarchist, one desires a society formed around non-coercive social relationships, one can see that the government is incompatible with this view. This differs from a marxist-Leninist perspective who hold that this 'monopoly on violence' can be used towards 'good' or 'Communist' ends. One only has to look at the history of so-called "worker's States' to see that using the State apparatus cannot create Communism, only the reestablishment of a ruling class consisting of a small clique of the working class.

    In summary, the government is a historical construction which ensures Capitalism and class divisions in society. It can not be utilized to dismantle these, as it will inevitably re-establish a new ruling class.