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Which came first; Anarchy or Punk?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by A Skyclad Observer, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. A Skyclad Observer

    A Skyclad ObserverNew Member New Member


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    Mar 13, 2015
     
    For you, personally, of course!

    For me anarchism came first, and through that I got into punk: One moment you're reading Kropotkin, the next you're listening to Crass and from there the rock just keeps on rolling... ;)
     

  2. Veganarchy

    VeganarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 10, 2009
     
    Interresting question...For me I think it grew simultaneously from the same roots. Comming from a pretty left-winged workingclass home, I grew up on a solid dose of humanistic values and good old rock'n'roll music. I guess punk helped shaping my values and informed me about all the messed up stuff going on in the world, but I think I was hellbound to be a misanthropic misfit, no matter what... :lmao:
     
  3. Anton-One

    Anton-OneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 30, 2012
     
    I was into the music first and the idealism grew from the messages in the songs. I was interested to read in George Bergers book the story of CRASS that even CRASS didn't really know that much about anarchy in the early days. and one of the reasons they never played Europe much was because early on they had played Germany and when things had kicked off with the authorities at one of their gigs German anarchists had been up turning police cars, which disturbed CRASS they thought, "What've we let our selves in for with this talk of anarchy" and wondered if they really had any authority to be preaching anarchy to people. I found this interesting because most of us (the mainly young kids who listened to them at that time) were generally clueless and we thought they were the go to people for knowledge of things anarchy and peace. they remained anarchist of course but were very weary of playing places where there was a chance they could end up thrown in a foreign prison. they didn't really play outside England again until right near the end of there existence as a band.
     
  4. Anton-One

    Anton-OneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 30, 2012
     
    the messages in Anarcho punk certainly made me a better person.
     
  5. nodogs_nomasters

    nodogs_nomastersExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 15, 2014
     
    Punk was definitely first. Now I'm growing quite interested in anarchism.
    Both have informed much of my growth as a person. Curiosity, humanitarianism, free thought, independence, fuck the fascists... that's the stuff.
     
  6. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It's really interesting, the chaos came first and from that (and because of that) some people started spreading the true ideals of anarchsim through punk.
     
  7. DeadChannel

    DeadChannelExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 16, 2014
     
    I think the thing that kickstarted me down this road was actually Orwell's 1984. I pretty quickly realized that, in some capacity, that novel reflected parts of the real world in a way that I wished it didn't. Later, Homage to Catalonia was what cemented the idea that anarchism is a serious worldview, and that it had been misrepresented by society.
    I got super into music a few years after that, but I've never really been stuck on one type. I listen to some punk rock, but I don't see my musical taste as having anything to do with my political opinions, even though I do like to a lot of Anarcho bands. I like Crass because they bring a really cool avant-garde thing to the table, for example. Anarchy is just the cherry on top.
     
  8. nodogs_nomasters

    nodogs_nomastersExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 15, 2014
     
    ^^ Oh, fuck yeah, George Orwell. Huge influence on me as a baby punker in high school. 1984 was an instant favorite. I must've torn through that thing at least 50 times. Vonnegut wasn't bad either.
     
  9. RememberGlencoe

    RememberGlencoeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    May 12, 2014
     
    I was always very anti-establishment, very anti-authority. To the point of paranoia, in all honesty. Although that attracted me to anarchism, I never really picked up the black flag until I became a punk. I'll never conform to all the criteria of an anarchist, but no other political ideology can be fully justified ethically. I only really differ from anarchist doctrine on a few points and ideas, mostly unimportant ones. And I'll always be there for my fellow punks, so it's anarchy for me. No Gods, No Masters. :D
     
  10. SmokeyJoe

    SmokeyJoeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jan 17, 2016
     
    The seeds were definitely there for a long time, but I never really knew what punk or anarchy was growing up. Society wages a pretty good smear campaign against both, with punks being portrayed as something akin to the raiders in a Fallout game, and "anarchists" being treated as synonymous with "anti-government terrorists."

    I got introduced to punk music in my late teens/early twenties, but never really saw through the BS about anarchy until my thirties. Then I ended up doing a study on "anarchist subcultures" during my second attempt at college, and after reading up on what anarchy actually meant as a philosophy I realized it was pretty much exactly what I had come to believe on my own over the years. Now I'm working on starting up a punk band and saving up to get a circle-a tattooed over my heart. Go figure.

    Wish I'd figured this shit out back in the 80's, would've saved myself a lot of wasted time trying to play by the rules and work within the system. :lmao:
     
  11. Vulture

    VultureExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 12, 2015
     
    Got into Green Day in elementary from hearing my dad's music that he no longer liked. Time went by, but I still had an infatuation with bad vocals and loud music.
    More time went by, and I was listening to Bob Dylan. I learned a lot from his earlier songs of political disillusion. I looked into TZM. I got into Breaking Benjamin with my now ex-girlfriend. It brought me back to the days of Green Day somehow. Then someone somewhere told me Green Day wasn't real punk. I looked around for what real punk was. I stumbled across the Sex Pistols. They said the word "anarchy" in "Anarchy in the UK". I was, of course, repulsed by the idea; However I wondered why I had such an immediate programmed response to a simple word. I looked into what anarchy was, and found myself in love. Then I stumbled across this odd political band called the Subhumans in a google search (they had a cool name), Crass, etc. You know how the rest of the story goes...

    So, I got into fake punk, then early punk, then anarcho-punk. If you don't count the Sex Pistols or Green Day, which I don't, then I would say Anarachy.
     
  12. CroydonTouristOffice

    CroydonTouristOfficeMember Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2016
     United Kingdom
    Honestly, I'm not really sure. I was born a cynical fucker. I was that kid in early school - y'know, the one who figured out that Santa was fake LONG before the other kids did, and relentlessly mocked them for believing in that crap.

    As a result, I was always fairly cynical when it came to my views on politics. In my early teens, I got into conspiracy theories.. even the really silly ones. I would read anything at all counter-cultural, at that time. At this point, my music taste was strictly hip-hop - as was the case with most kids in my estate, growing up. I wasn't as satisfied with current chart-toppers as my peers, though- and I started to listen to NWA, Public Enemy and Ice-T, who really started to clue me into the idea of politically-charged music.

    By my mid teens, I was reading into anarchism and also listening to punk alongside hip-hop. I'm genuinely not sure which I got into first, since both things kinda snuck up on me. Books and films on anarchism fell under counter-culture, so I ended up reading them just like anything else, and I sorta slipped into listening to punk through the Beastie Boys early material, as well as pop-punk bands like Republica.

    Both transitions were so gradual, it's really hard for me to put together a timeline.
     
    punkmar77 likes this.
  13. rude-boii

    rude-boiiNew Member New Member


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    Jun 30, 2017
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    Oregon, United States United States
    Interesting question.

    I grew up in a hippy community of artists and all that stuff. Most of my friends parents were Hippies and I think that played a role in some ways for me as well. They were all very Counter Culture and against the Man. Protesters, Anti-War etc.

    I also as a small boy was always upset by the images on the news daily of other kids my own age in Vietnam and the War which was still in full force. I also remember Israeli Tanks crushing Palestinian homes around that time too. Police corruption in my town was also bad and had many run ins with them even as a boy. I think this all helped to pave the way.

    In May of 1979 Pink Floyd's The Wall Album just came out and got a copy for my birthday a week or so later. That Album has a very strong Anti-Fascist message to it and as a troubled kid who was always getting in trouble in school the whole "We Don't need no education" message sure made me happy. lol

    Now later on in 1979 a new neighbor moved down the street and he was a few years older than me and really cool but very strange! He had cropped hair (and everyone in the 70's had long hair!) and it was bleached. He also had written all over his Levi's with a sharpie with all sorts of crazy stuff. His Vans were duck taped together (and in 79' Vans cost 4$ a pair so was no excuse! lol) as were his shredded jeans, but the craziest thing of all was he was hopping up on his skate board and grinding along the curb on his trucks!!! I came out to ask him what the hell he was doing and why he was trying to ruin his skateboard. We started talking and it turns out he was one of those "Punk Rockers" I had heard about on the news. I think he had safety pins all over too.

    I was curious about this crazy thing and he insisted I order this new record from England that was just coming out by a punk band called "Dead Kennedys" and the name was "Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables" or something crazy like that! Well I went to the hippy record shop and ordered a copy and it was expensive because was a British Import.

    When it came in both me and my brother really got into it and was so cool came with not only lyrics but also a poster that was really whacked out too . The lyrics were all very disturbing because at first was hard to tell if they were Pro Fascism or sarcastic? Many kids at that time thought they were pro fascist and became Nazi's for a short time as a result. Songs like "Kill the Poor" etc was very Ronald Reagan like in the minds of many.

    Now that I was digging Punk Rock, the Sex Pistols, Circle Jerks were bands that had a message. Most punk bands back then were more of just being pissed off and fuck everything and not much content. But DK and Circle Jerks were very Political and Anarchist by nature. These messages struck home for me for so many reasons.

    Although I loved the new "OI!" sound from Britain, it was very expensive and couldn't afford it and discovered the super Bargain of Crass records! lol For the price of One OI! album, you could get a double Crass album that came with amazing posters, Artwork, etc! Anarcho Punk also really spoke to me yet again. Oi! was more of a Jock thing and I was a runt.

    In the early 80's in LA, the Punk scene was really in it's prime. Gigs were every weekend and often could see bands like DI and stuff locally at some keg party for free.

    Also the whole Anarcho Punk scene was really also exploding in England. We used to order records at our punk shop based upon who the bands were thanking in their credits! Crazy Band names like "Flux of Pink Indians" , "Rudimentary Peni" , "Dirt" etc would keep us finding new bands. And again the message was already what we as punks were into anyway by then. Did I mention they were all dirt cheap (even Dirt's album!) and always came with posters and artwork? :) We were starting our own bands and writing to Crass, Sub Humans, Conflict, Flux of Pink Indians, etc and was an amazing time to be in the scene at that time.

    Although "Anarchism" was always a part of the "Bohemians" like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, The Beat Generation and then the Hippies, and other Counter Cultural movements, I really have to say that Punk Rock was really the one that was very explicit about it and spoke of it often.

    I was circling the "a" in my name before I discovered Punk, but I do have to give credit to punk for crystallizing a general idea or feeling into something much more developed like Peter Kropotkin's Anarchism that I relate to the most.

    I really feel that Punk/Anarchism put vague but deep feelings into a clear concept. They gave a voice to me at a time when I so badly needed it. They grew together. But I don't think that would of happened had it not been for Punk Rock

    Cheers
    M@rk.
     
    punkmar77 and Alan Maleedy like this.
  14. psychymilo

    psychymiloNew Member New Member


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    May 29, 2016
     United Kingdom
    First was the mainstream punk music in 78/79 (I was 8/9 years old) such as The Clash, The Damned etc, then 82/83 was introduced to Crass and the onto Conflict, Subhumans (UK) then 86/87 (I was 16/17) had contact with the UK traveller community of the time and much more contact with my local Anarchists/Hunt Sabs/Anti Fascist/Class War movements and from there Anarchism became much more my political viewpoint and although I've become much less active over the years my viewpoints although probably not as extreme and still similar. The last few years I with more access to the music from the intervening years I now listen to music from all over the world and not Just UK/USA based.
     
    punkmar77 likes this.

6 members have read this thread this month

  1. rude-boii
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  4. Alice.f
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