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The Revolution

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Wooly, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 24, 2010
     
    On this website there is a lot of talk, and a surprisingly low amount of action. People here (including myself) are always talking about the politics of the "Post revolutionary society", without actually talking about the revolution.

    So i figured i would start a thread here so people could talk about the where when and how's of the revolution. Where would the best place to do it be? When is the right time? How is the anarchist community going to rise up? Will our "leaders" have to take that last step too far?

    Anyway, here we can talk about weapons, strategies, tactics and all that other revolutionary stuff.
     

  2. statuliber

    statuliberExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 13, 2009
     
    weapons (as in the sense of firearms and stuff like that, not as in "solidarity is a weapon") are for me no part of the revolution
     
  3. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 24, 2010
     
    I think its pretty accepted that the revolution will have a degree of violence involved. Im not saying "Lets all arm ourselves and go around killing police officers", But a revolution is bound to turn violent. I for one would suggest the use of non-lethal weapons, like tear gas or even tasers. Personally i like the idea of a "Hearts and Minds" revolution.
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    How the fuck would you know ? You posted 34 messages here and you already pretend we don't do anything else than talking. You known none of you in real life, you don't know what we do, what we are involved in, and where we fight. Please keep your assumptions for yourself and don't judge peoples. Anyway, what do you do that gives you the right to judge others ?

    If we don't talk much about the revolution, it's because the major diffrence of ideas concern the post-revolutionary society. Even the stalinists, the trotskysts, maoists and authoritarians of all kind agree to make a revolution. The major differences are in the post revolutionary society. And it isn't worth anything to do a revolution when we can't even agree on how the post revolutionary society will look. It is useless to take down capitalism if it's to result in a civil war because everyone disagree on what should succeed to capitalism

    Anywhere. Anytime. Anyhow. All reasons are good to destroy capitalism, and anytime (preferably as soon as possible). The only thing i'd add to this is that the revolution should be done and supported by the majority of the lower classes / proletarian population.

    Some anarchists believe the best way is through anarchosyndicalism, others believe in armed revolution, others are non-violent, etc... I say all ways are good, that's why i am synthesis. It just depends on the circumstances, but we shouldn't think one solution is better than another one and refuse to consider the alternatives

    Why use lethan weapons against the one fighting us with war weapons and deadly bullets? Anyway it would be suicide and thats not how you fight a war.... That's definatly not serious. The spanish revolution, the EZLN, the makhnovtchina and kronsdadt sailors (to quote only them) never used non-lethal weapons and never gave a fuck about killing the fascists who wanted to stop a revolution by the people.... Seriously a revolution is a civil war, you don't make a war by throwing flowers to your ennemies
     
  5. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    i think more people have to understand todays situation. i dont agree with statuliber becouse it is necessary to use weapons, to destroy sistem, capitalism, fascism. I think its hard to tell when and where should it happen but as ungovr. said as soon as possible. also I think it will be necessary to get rid of some people, i know that every life has the same value but i also know that the fascists and capitalists and leaders and police are bastards who just stand in our way. who will disagree with us? they-police, politicians and fascist.
     
  6. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 24, 2010
     
    Chill man, im not attacking you. Im saying "On this website site", i dont make reference to your real lives, because i KNOW a lot of you are really in to your activism, witch is fucking fantastic. In the five or so days ive been frequenting this website, its mostly been talk about post revolutionary stuff, witch is great, i like talking about that.
    Im just saying that Lethal force should be used as sparingly as possible, i understand that a lot of the time it would be kill or be killed, and a lot of killing would (unfortunately) be necessary. By all means, kill, burn and maim the fascists. But it would be preferable to use teargas and tasers on the people who were "Just doing their job", although i do understand that a lot of the time this would be impossible, and the only options would be to kill or be killed.
     
  7. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Well, for a revolution to come about, i think theres going to be a HUGE AMOUNT of violence. There are thousands of people out there who disagree with everything we say and do and believe. So i feel that its necessary to use violence. Ive been reading a book called "How Non-violence protects the state" its a pretty good read.

    Anyways, i totally support the use of lethal force. Cops and politicians arent just going to lay over and let us change societies fabric. I dont think its unfortunate either.

    And i agree with Ungov. Although he didnt have to blow up on you. Dont judge us by a forum. I mean, what are we going to do on here that'll cause the revolution? Not exactly real life is it?
     
  8. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    yeah, twas a bit of an over-reaction on ungov's behalf.
    However, action generally doesn't occur on the interwebz :p
    and to make assumptions on ppl's 'activism', which was somewhat implicit in comments about 'suprisingly low amount of action', was a tad careless. No biggie though :)

    anyhow, would take me a great deal of time to coherently outline my thoughts on 'The Revo', apart from its obvious neccesity, time in which i'm too lazy to use now.
    maybe just note that Benjamin Franks' 'Rebel Alliances: The means and ends of contemporary British anarchisms', AK Press, 2006. basically he defines his version of an 'ideal type anarchism', a definition i share. This text has strongly influenced my own political position (pre, post & during the revo).

    moar l8er h8ers, hopefully
     
  9. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I'd say I'm more inclined to an Evolution than a Revolution, myself. Quite simply because of the fact that a revolution, by it's definition is a sudden upheaval or change of 'state' (as in a state of being, not a geo-political state), this upheaval can occur with or without violence, but in this case (basically a 180 degree switchover) violence will most likely occur. This is all well and good, HOWEVER: there will most likely not only be resistance from the state (geo-political state this time), but also from the rest of society (who may not be inclined towards a revolution), which would make the revolution authoritarian to an extent in and of itself.
    An Evolution however is a far more subtle change over time, which comes about due to a organism or species' momentum in a certain direction to adapt to new circumstances or context. This in and of itself, would, in my opinion, be far more preferable.
     
  10. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    another thing to keep in mind before making assumptions, we are not a group that feels a need to brag or boast about what we are doing, especially when what we are doing could be considered illeagel by people in power. This forum is not a pissing contest for who's doing what over those who aren't. some people can't be active participants for whatever reason, so before you accuse anyone of doing or not doing whatever, take a good look at yourself and ask 'what the fuck have you done?'
     
  11. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I think you meant to say: "What the fuck have I done?"
    'Cause the other question's already been asked :p
     
  12. drfaustxxx

    drfaustxxxActive Member Forum Member


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    May 1, 2010
     

    I strongly disagree look at the carnation revolution a revolution that literally came from throwing flowers at there enemys.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Elisee Reclus wrote a great book about this, called "evolution or revolution". Anyway, an evolution instead of a revolution would mean a lot of reforms and playing the state's game. I doubt an evolution could ever lead to anarchism, it would be stopped by reforms... Just look at cwhat happenned to May 68 in france... And anyway it wouldnt solve the problem of violence, there would still be a lot of protests and far-right militants going on the street to protest against the leftish reforms, and if we finally abolish capitalism there would be a counter-revolutionary movement and probably also a civil war... The result is still the same

    But in some countries depending on the situation there is a need for a transitory period so its pretty much where the evolution will be. I mean, we arent going to abolish money and capitalism in 24 hours for countries like USA....

    This revolution was a MILITARY coup and btw it wasn't an anarchist revolution. And did they use non-lethal weapons ? NO. That's exactly my point.
     
  14. HCdancingsux

    HCdancingsuxActive Member Forum Member


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    May 18, 2010
     
    Exactly! An anarchist revolution is not about tearing down the existing government with weapons and violence. Its about using what already there to your advantage. Use peaceful tactics.

    Encourage people to live anarchy in the best way they can. Like capitalist anarchy to start off with, and then move on to forming self-sustaining communities with no money or possessions. Respectful places with their ethics written on the door, so that the person entering has a choice. You think were wrong, just don't come in. Legally, its impossible to live by your own ethics even in a closed community... but still I like the idea of focusing on the people around you rather than trying to 'recruit' or 'change' anyone.

    As an individual I like to spread ideals of peace and try to really listen to everyone. Its hard though. I admit that as a human being, it just feels devastating to be wrong. If we want anarchy, we have to eliminate arrogance. Let them know that anarchists are not just "against everything". Make the idea not so foreign to people, by sharing the philosophy without already thinking that your beliefs are ultimately right.

    People are becoming more into environmentalism and being 'green'. We could relate these ideas to D.I.Y. culture and let people decide for themselves. Support and promote everything D.I.Y. as much as you can.

    I believe the revolution will be slow, and hope it will include everybody instead of attacking them.
     
  15. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 16, 2010
     
    I think evolution is the key. Not merely an evolution of politic/economic systems but true human evolution. The negative aspect of humanity and the roles they play in society cannot be overlooked. Things like envy, jealousy, anger, hate, fear, greed, arrogance and so on, have been the down fall of man since the dawn of time. Every system invented and attempted has and will eventually fail purely for these reasons.

    The thing to keep in mind is the human species has only been around for 200,000 years. When compared to my lifetime or yours that seems to be an eternity. But when compared to other species we are in our infancy. I have a feeling it will take us another 200,000 years to get to the world everyone here wants.
     
  16. drfaustxxx

    drfaustxxxActive Member Forum Member


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    May 1, 2010
     
    Ungonvernable I did more research you are correct they AFM was a militant group. The Revolution itself while not anarchist the final revolution was purely non violent and rather moving. Non the less the movement itself was military led and I remembered it incorrectly.The Spanish civil war on the other hand although it did have a number of violent anarchist organizations had a lot that came from social centered no violent direct action groups. To each his own I guess.
     
  17. corpratedeath

    corpratedeathMember Forum Member


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    they have made it so peaceful revolution impossible so violent revolution is inevitable ,i say lets burn the Mcmansions
     
  18. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Indeed, and when some stranger makes such accusations, or starts asking too many question, telling them anything is just plain stupid. Anyway, I not big fan of violence, I'd prefer some kind of 'hearts and minds' evolution kinda thing, but when it comes down to it, whatever it takes, I guess.
     
  19. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Usual age given for species is 1.5 to 2 millions years, and 10,000 to 15,000 years for civilization.
     
  20. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    lets face it, the only way to bring on our revolution is violence. we need to form assassination squads, we need to take out politicians who don't keep their promises, raise taxes, get caught doing misdeeds. (yes i realize that would probably be 99.9% of them...) and make people scared to be in positions of power for fear of their life if they don't hold true to their words. Also we'd need to take out cops, soldiers, tax-collectors, landlords, racists, biggots, and any other oppressors out there, enough so that no one would want to do those things. to quote V FOR VENDETTA, "people should not be afraid of their government, a government should be afraid of it's people." Eventually no one would want to be in a position of power and the foundation of anarchism would be set.

    How else do you see it happening? letting them oppress you til they see the error of their ways? screaming peace and love at them?

    Without violence, nothing will change.
     
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