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Subjective Fascism

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Pseudo_Minds, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Pseudo_Minds

    Pseudo_MindsMember Forum Member


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    Apr 16, 2010
     
    I am new to this community and this is my first post. As I read thru the political debates, I noticed misconstrued definitions of Fascism (Well for me...). Many people seem to completely associate Nazism or Hitler with Fascism when I completely disagree. I am not an adovocate for Fascism or anything but most of society perpetuates an ignorant definition of Fascism (this bothers me). Many forget to recognize the influence that Fascism had on Liberalism and Progressivism. The fundamentals of Fascism have nothing to do with Hitler. With all due honesty there is really no set definition of Fascism. Fascism is a philosophy that is far too broad and wide that it cannot be restricted to what the media present it as. Since I believe that all defintions are Subjective, this is mine (I am open for criticisms). Fascism to a extent is a secular philosophy that uses Totalitarism to achieve the highest potential state for the PEOPLE. Mussolini coined the word "totalitarian" to describe not a tyrannical society but a humane one in which everyone is taken care of and contributes equally. When Fascism was first developed, it had no relation to anti-semetism. This is just a very basic outline of my definition. What is Fascism to you? It obviously seems Fascism has become the scapegoat of political philosophies.
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Fascism is a overused term, with the years the definition have became larger and larger. It is often associated with some things that have almost no link with the real fascism, and even more often used just to discredibilise an opponent (aka the Godwin point).

    If you want to push things farther you could even say that fascism is Mussolini ideas and nothing more. Hitler was also a fascist but nazism isn't the same thing as fascism.

    It piss me off sometimes how some peoples see fascism everywhere, like in the recent debates on anti-fascism some peoples says being radically anti-fascist result in being a fascist. Fascism is way more than a way to act or your personnal ideas.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    There absolutely is a set definition of Fascism, it is simply a philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent economic and social control, a strong centralized government usually headed by a dictator with a policy of belligerent nationalism and military oppression. In the cases of Spain and Italy also with a strong marriage of the Catholic Church and State and a very strong anti-semite sentiment. Fascism is the result of a Capitalist Nation-State taken to its natural conclusions.
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    +1
     
  5. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    The word 'fascist' not got much to do with fascism any more. It mostly become general term, usually abusive, to describe certain ideas and behaviour - extreme prejudice, mainly. I don't think it fascist to hate fascists, it not prejudice as there is a reason to hate them.
     
  6. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 1, 2010
     
    They just lost me there, these are quotes from Wikipedia.

    "Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement."

    It's similar to a dictatorship

    War's not a game, although they unite a country against one common enemy, people are still getting killed and homes are still being destroyed.

    Wow?

    How can people advocate such a hateful, biased, and inequal system?
     
  7. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 13, 2010
     
    The only answer I can think of is that weak people will fall into it and believe every word of it or that people were born into it, neither one being an excuse. Other then that I don't know why any one would.
     
  8. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Fear, ignorance, insecurity, anger, peer pressure.
     
  9. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    the promise and seduction of power in an otherwise powerless life
     
  10. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Fascists are bad news.
     
  11. ILuvEire

    ILuvEireExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Apr 5, 2010
     
    Wikipedia:
    "Fascism', pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.[5][6] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum,[7][8][9][10][11][12] although some scholars claim that fascism has been influenced by both the left and the right.[13][14]"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    I'd argue that Nazism is certainly a form of fascism. Well, essentially fascism, with strong strong racism and antisemitism. Anyway, fascism is similar to communism, in that there are many different definitions, and definitions shift frequently, by time period, region, and who you're talking to.
     
  12. xOutspokenx

    xOutspokenxActive Member Forum Member


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    Mar 7, 2010
     
    Well, not really.

    Communism is a specific idea with specific theories which may have some variants, but it's still quite clear what is and what is not Communism. On the other hand Fascism is a very ambiguous term which does depend from time period, geographical location and context as you say.
     
  13. ILuvEire

    ILuvEireExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Well, do you think that Marx would consider Stalin's Russia, the People's Republic of China, or North Korea communist?
     
  14. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    No idea, is Marx god or something? I thought he was just some dead geyser with a beard.
     
  15. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2010
     
    Doesn't communism have some similarities with fascism. I ask this out of my own ignorance and not to promote anger.
    Didn't both systems
    1) advocate a single party state and
    2) go to any lengths to protect that single party ideal (e.g formation of secret police forces such as KGB and SS)
    3) reject individualism particularly with respect to
    a) religious freedom and
    b) ethnic minorities
    (didn't both communist and fascism parties systematically round up catholics, gypsies etc and persecute them)
    4) promote the state and the need for a strong national identity
    5) promote economic equality for the masses resulting from the strong national identity
     
  16. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Think that just called totalitarianism. From wiki-shite:

    Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political organization, faction, or class domination, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible.[2] Totalitarianism is generally characterised by the coincidence of authoritarianism (i.e., where ordinary citizens have no significant share in state decision-making) and ideology (i.e., a pervasive scheme of values promulgated by institutional means to direct the most significant aspects of public and private life)[3].

    Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of state terrorism.


    You can be communist without being totalitarian, whereas fascism is always totalitarian. You could, maybe, describe the examples given above (Stalin, etc) as 'fascist communism', which sounds like a bit of a contradiction, and probably why a lot of communists deny that they are communist at all.
     
  17. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2010
     
    But didn't the Communist government of the USSR do all of those things?
     
  18. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, like I said, that is totalitarian communism. It's not the only kind, and many people would deny it really communism at all.
     
  19. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2010
     
    Thanks for clearing that up - understand a bit better now
     
  20. xOutspokenx

    xOutspokenxActive Member Forum Member


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    Mar 7, 2010
     
    No, but then again neither of those regimes ever realy put into practice any Marxist theory at all.

    That is not Communism, that is just totalitarianism and they are both very different things. As said above, none of the aforementioned regimes was ever really Communist. Just because they said they were, doesn't mean they actually were.
     
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