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Radicals and transphobia?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by JBastard, May 30, 2013.

  1. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Hi, so I go about reading my usual sites and I come across this:
    http://rocredandblack.org/hateful-sophi ... esistance/

    Disclaimer: I am a trans person (mtf) currently undergoing transition.

    What the fuck? Trans people don't exist? We're just doing this to encroach upon radical feminism? Why?! Being trans sucks! It's extremely confusing, we risk our friends and family rejecting us or being awkward around us, we have to practically beg the government to recognise our new gender, we have an alarmingly high suicide and self-harm rate, we have to undergo HRT and surgery...

    I'm just glad these assholes are being rejected. What even... ugh!
     

  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Trust me JB...its a big deal and they are being hammered for their stance, you are loved and accepted by all anarchist that are true to their roots....
     
  3. statesanctionedterror

    statesanctionedterrorMember Forum Member


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    Jul 3, 2012
     
    Theres absolutly no place for transphobia
     
  4. Grizzly The Unamed Sharp

    Grizzly The Unamed SharpActive Member Forum Member


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    Apr 11, 2013
     
    Wow that was a read, I have for a long time suffered with gender identification problems, and I guess I can say that here without pushback, and I am still struggling with how to come to terms with it, it really saddens me that even the people who you might've thought had your back would turn on you. JB you got friends here to rely on. Transphobia is just another form of bigotry to rebel against.
     
  5. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Thanks, it's nice to have the reassurance. Although in an ideal word we shouldn't need to deal with his shit. DG don't sound very anarchist from what I've been reading. The sort of shit Bakunin warned us about.
     
  6. Grizzly The Unamed Sharp

    Grizzly The Unamed SharpActive Member Forum Member


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    Apr 11, 2013
     
    Aye true that, in an ideal world people wouldn't be identified by what genitalia they possess and gender dysphoria would classified as "the desire to be oneself". Same concept goes with all other "methods" of identification. Sadly all the close minded, bigoted people ruin any chance of such an ideal world :/
     
  7. Imjustassickasyoubelieve

    ImjustassickasyoubelieveMember Forum Member


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    Jan 6, 2013
     
    It's okay I love you even if some people choose to be intolerant douchenuggets :D <3 Be who you are and know that anyone who doesn't like it doesn't deserve you. Infinite love is the ONLY answer. <3 <3 <3
     
  8. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    Is there anything else that needs to be said?

    The article is kind of dumb though. I'll cherrypick a little:
    They were probably outvoted and decided to not take part in this organisation. Same goes for some people who are leaning more into individualism in anarchist groups - most of us are more or less collectivist, so the "disloyal" ones are often becoming an outcasts(voluntarily). I don't think its a sign of anarchists being authoritarian.
    They(we?) may be, when it comes to economy, but as someone said "Men rule the world. Women rule the men." What do I mean? Both men and woman have privilege, the thing is - men's are usually of economical or political nature and women's are more of a cultural thing. If we want to destroy "patriarchy" then we have to revoke all of them, and that's the thing that most femms never get.
    Of course no one. It's obvious that there are no people who are naturally submissive in this planet :ecouteurs:.
    I'm starting to believe, that he had never seen a women in work or even school and that's why he sees only a cons of being one. That's the problem of many people though.
     
  9. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Has anyone read their book?

    HAHA - I read it and at a point Lierre Keith started quoting articles from wikipedia, and all of a sudden i stopped reading it and asked myself "What The Fuck?" I remember asking my friend if i was being elitist for thinking less of the book and DGR for quoting wikipedia, my friend said i was but they should really not be quoting from wikipedia it they wanted to be taken seriously...so i continued reading the book, it's very vague in what type of world they want after they smash the United States, what they are working with is a hierarchy of the 3 tops peeps (i think one left DGR) and an above ground and an underground cell structure of peeps that will attack the infrastructure of the good old USA on command and bring it down...

    I remember looking into what type of world they wanted or what would come next after they smashed the good old USA (HULK smash civ stye) and i felt or got out of my research into what they wanted next...was a small minimal state...maybe with them on top ruling all and making life good for all and the salmon...

    but then i stopped caring about DGR as i think most peeps did as they were overshadowed by autonomous groups in action taking squares or plazas in the good old USA (the occupy shit) and well they know seem to be falling apart...
    :ecouteurs:
     
  10. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    I'm struggling to work out what the thing is with transphobia in radical feminism, of all places. It's almost like a sort of victimisation elitism: no, you can't join our radical club because we're the victims of oppression here, not you!

    Their stuff about gender itself not existing is scientifically bullshit. Cisgendered men and women have differences in their brains, but in particular there is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stria_terminalis. Trans men and women have the opposite structure here to their biological gender. So for transgenderism to be a social construct, this would have to be untrue. Brains have genders and in people with gender dysphoria there is a mismatch. To transphobic assholes: Tough shit. You can't blame your anger on society this time, because this time you are hating people for how they are born. This is no different to racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism etc. Get the fuck over it. Besides, it's irrelevant - even if it were a choice, transphobic people are still assholes. It's not like it hurts anyone else.

    And it's good that DGR is pretty much dead. It sounds like a shitty organisation anyway. The dark trio of ubermensch at the top who are going to make the world just fine as long as you listen to their orders? Yeah, really on board there. Nice one. Also, quoting from Wikipedia is stupid, because Wikipedia should have actual references on it or else the content shouldn't fucking be there. If you don't check the references you may as well quote something off someone on facebook or what ever.

    And don't get me started on anti-civ. :lmao:
     
  11. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Maybe one day. It's a long ways off, but things have been slowly but surely improving for LGBT people in general. Just got to keep challenging it where it happens, and make sure the next generation are better informed than the last.

    <3 :)

    I don't think he really meant that being a women is, in itself, a shitty thing to have to be. But women are on the receiving end of most gender-specific bullshit (we call it the 'patriarchy' and 'feminism' for a reason, even though it does hurt/help men and trans people too), and it is hard to deal with that.
     
  12. pUnK@55

    [email protected]Active Member Forum Member


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    Nov 26, 2011
     
    Kropotkin would be proud.
     
  13. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    Everyone gets this shit.
    Some idiots will blame women for rapes on them, because in their mind its "their" fault. Others don't want to employ them because they assume that they'll be less effective, even though they don't know.
    On the other hand in nearly every divorce case the kids stay with mother, even if they don't want it. Also, men have much higher suicide rates(at least in my country) most of them aren't teenage, these guys are 30-50 years old, the most common reason is unemployment(women don't suffer as much because they're not expected to earn money, man who can't find a job is a "loser" even if it's not his fault).
    Somehow everyone sees only the women problems while whole issue is far more complex, this is why I don't agree with the women being especially oppressed members of society.
     
  14. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    However, as a man I could walk around in the evening on my own without fear of being raped, or not have asshole men try and hit on me and intimidate me (that IS intimidating coming from random men, you're not being complimentary, if you like me that's fine but you don't need to be obnoxious over it), or earn substantially more for doing the same job, or not be pressured into sex work to support myself if I'm dirt poor, or not have advertising treat me like a sex object, or not be treated like dirt because I like having sex, not have my right to control my own body and get an abortion be constantly under threat, not be portrayed as submissive or even subjects of violence in pornography and general media, or not be treated like shit by pretty much every form of organised religion.

    The shit men have to put up with? Yes, it's bad. It shouldn't happen. Men should be able to look after kids. Men should be able to help a lost child without fear of being branded a paedo. This is also a result of patriarchy. But if you can walk around groups of the opposite sex at night without feeling like you're in physical danger, you're better off than women. And for women suffering less as a result of being dependent on men for financial support? To do that you have to abandon your hopes and dreams and become a fucking housewife and full time babymaker. It's borderline slavery. You ever heard of domestic violence? That's the other side of that particular coin. And if we break the mold and try to support ourselves? We earn less money than you. For the same job.
     
  15. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    I don't disagree with your points. I'm just looking at other side of coin.

    The wage gap is a tricky thing. In different economical system it'd be an abomination, but I'm afraid that the current one is focused around effectiveness, statistics show that men tend to work harder(and statistics show that women earn less, some individual cases are contradictory with it but it's the statistics nature), so I don't think you'll make it disappear without changing the economy.
    There's also a problem with heavy industry or mines - women aren't widely employed here(apart from administrative/laboratory part), and it's quite well-paid sector, but erm... I have a coal mine few kilometres from my home, so I know the reason - they'd have to build additional building with showers/changing rooms, organise entire women-based shifts(to avoid massive rapes - sorry, human nature is human nature, when there's 50°C and humidity is higher than in rainforest - you're not going to be hermetically dressed) even though there'd be no enough of them to form them, the women-only shifts would be less effective(even though technology evolved, some raw strength is still necessary here) so the "oppression" would cause them being paid less anyway.
    On the other hand one of the most popular "women dominated" job is teacher - teachers are usually badly paid(at least in my "first world" country) so the statistics are doomed to be even more fucked up.
    Same goes for engineers - it's also male dominated job.
    What the hell could we do about it without changing the whole system though?
    Rapes and domestic violence are also kind of fluid things(if prison rape would be reported estimated male-women ratio of being rape victims would be around 4-1) but it's not the point.

    The point is - women are not fucked up because of evil patriarchal white cis males defending their privilege, but because of dumb economy that influence the society to be fucked up.

    About the men hitting you - well, let's say it's a result of man being forced to be active part of the relationship, so in fact, you're complaining that men are discriminated and can't be the passive one or even fulfil themselves in the current because it's "obnoxious" - it's not even close to be precise term so I doubt that it'll change, even along with the economy.
     
  16. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    Fix'd, blame my english(couldn't edit for some reason).
     
  17. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    :lmao: you're joking right?
     
  18. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    What do you mean?
     
  19. JBastard

    JBastardActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2011
     
    Where did you get that information from?

    Wait. What? Let's see that again...

    ...

    I don't even. Even for an MRA that's weak.

    Rape isn't human nature. Rape is men being brought up to act like women are property. Guess what's responsible for that? And if your employees are likely to commit rape and sexual harrassment? Get some fucking adults. Victim blaming is bullshit.

    ...well you're on this bloody forum, are you not a revolutionary?

    Source? That sounds like a pile of horse shit to me.

    Which is why sexism never happens in socialist economies, right? :lmao:

    No, you have the choice not to hit on me. Patriarchy might say that you should act that way, but it is your choice. I don't have a choice in receiving it. Besides, does giving out catcalls or pestering someone make you feel terrible? Oppressed? Victimised? Anxious? Uncomfortable? Poor baby. That's much worse than being on the receiving end and not being able to do anything about it.
     
  20. sheep6665

    sheep6665Active Member Forum Member


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    Aug 15, 2012
     
    Pick every economy study you want.
    In capitalism you're getting paid for X(amount somebody want to spend for your product/service)*n(number of services/products sold).
    Women in general focus on getting the job that fits them while men tend to get a job that brings tons of cash and has possibility of promotion(they focus on that point) - see yuppie, there's no large-scale women equivalent of them.
    If there's hot you're going to sweat, sweat contains pheromones, if there's wet, then everybody will smell your pheromones. If there shifts that are male or female only then it's not a problem, but if we have mixed ones then...
    Stop.
    What's a pheromone? According to wikipedia:
    So everybody is influenced by smell that are used to bring sexual attraction of opposite gender(because that's the point why we're even producing them - we can communicated in other ways so the pheromones have only one use).
    Having this in mind we can say that mixed-shifts generate sexual urge. Our culture makes women see sex as something morally wrong, so they won't really likely agree if male part of the shift would ask them for a quick sex. It doesn't mean that the urge disappears. And we all know how it'll end.
    If it's not natural cause and effect sequence then I don't fucking know what is natural.
    Yeah, because you obviously have to support sexist anti-men hate group(rad fems) to be revolutionary :lmao:
    Wait stop. They're not anti-men. Not only anti-men. They seem to hate women for some reason, so they're trying to convince them that they don't know how to live and should listen them instead.
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-f ... rison-rape
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States
    Bear in mind that FBI says that 60% of women made rape reports are fake. We can don't like them but I think they can into stats.
    The basis of sexism is removed, the problem is you can't change society in a few days. Of course, why am I even talking about it, I've obviously never encountered anyone who lived under socialist economy in Poland but you've obviously met thousands of them and know everything about it.
    Also what do you mean when you're talking about "sexism"? For example - some people think that lack of parity is sexist, I don't think so, because parity is usually made in the women favour which implies that they're not strong/popular/smart/anything enough to achieve it themselves which is a sexist stance if we think about it.
    You know that your argument is easy to turn against you?
    If you don't like it simply say "fuck off" and it's the end, is it really that hard? How the fuck am I able to know when the little princess want to be talked to or not? I would not do it, but if I want to start the relationship I have to - women won't start them for me, so good old trial and error strategy is necessary.
     
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