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Politically, what do you consider yourself as?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by punkdude, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. GFSM

    GFSMExperienced Member Experienced member


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    is islamaphobic a word? it was implied that all muslim women have to wear "veils" on this thread. which they don't. fundamentalist sects may enforce this, but i've met plenty of girls who believe in allah who couldn't give a rats arse, and love to let me touch and look at their hair. it's like saying all x-tians think jeebus was the son of god. no... they actually all don't.

    and i don't give a fuck who i offend. i got into punk way before the whole PC fad, and i know when i'm being racist, sexist, homophobic etc blah blah baa baa ad nauseum and i will do so when i choose. i recognise my flaws, and hypocrisy, and i stand by them as solidly as i do my beliefs. unlike this stance of "a punk band/anarchist philosopher wrote it: therefore: it's gospel", which is just a new order of fundamentalism. now, go and work out way i banned our gracious friend. and shut the fuck up if you think i embarass myself. i'll do that when i want to too, and it won't be by your standards bucko.

    i do realise your comment might not have been directed at me. have a laugh on my behalf if so.
     
  2. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    This is why anarchism and religion dont mix
     
  3. Link K2B

    Link K2BExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 27, 2009
     
    It was directed at the lot of you.

    Ang on, you banned her? Some anarchist site's this been. Fuck the lot of you, I'm off an all.

    If this site is ever run by a collection of people who don't bicker like children and ban those that disagree with them, send me a mail and I'll come back. Anarchists my arse.
     
  4. GFSM

    GFSMExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 25, 2009
     
    i don't recall ever calling myself an anarchist.

    i would have been quite happy for our muslim friend to remain part of the site, i found her take on things interesting, and i think it important that these kind of varied views on what it is to be anarchist or whatever to be allowed to be voiced.

    i disagree with her sure, (and her detractors too for what it's worth) but i didn't weigh in on the debate as much as i would have, as my own take on politics conflicts with the generally fundamentalist/orthodox/mainstream/whatever "anarcho" approach. i banned her personally, without regard for usual protocol, because i found her graphic description of what anal sex is to be highly insensitive and insulting. i like me my buttsecks, from boys or from girls, and it's never been literally as "dirty" as that post implied it to be.

    so consider it a personal choice on my behalf. suggest my "privileges" be revoked if you feel the need. while i'll let "the children" bicker, i will not tolerate homophobia. enough said.

    so, anyway, this isn't the focus of the thread. i would say this issue "highjacked" it, and i mean that in a typical netspeak way, not as some cultural slur. moving on... i hope.
     
  5. zach riot

    zach riotMember New Member


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    Nov 3, 2009
     
    a media activist.
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    @Link K2B: stop acting just like it was a surprise

    This member failed to understand what UNITY is all about : centering on what UNITE us, not centering on what DIVISE us.

    And if you took the time to read our POINTS OF UNITY it clearly state neither religion, nor islamism, nor homophobia, not breaking women's rights, nor terrorism is not in our points of unity.

    Those values won't lead us to anarchism, and those values have nothing to do with the anarcho-punk scene in general.


    As for the banning, an anarchist website doesn't necessarly means it is a free tribune. This website is a TOOL for activists, anarcho-punks and peoples influenced by those values as described in our introduction text.


    As for Ghost in the void's privilege, i'd prefer to loose a members who refuse to get involved in a collective project as soon as the majority disagree with him on a little detail.... rather than losing one of the best and most dedicated moderator.
     
  7. Link K2B

    Link K2BExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 27, 2009
     
    I'm not guna tell you ow or ow not to run your website, though I did ave the impression before that this was a collective effort and I assumed discplinary decisions would come down to the community as a whole.

    But banning people over personal remarks made during heated debates (where personal slights were made by and against both sides) would be extreme on any forum, let alone one trying to espouse anarchist values. It undermines them. Why practise censorship? I know you found the homophobic statements offensive but I found some of the intolerance of Islam and religion offensive, but I woudn't suggest anyone should be censored as a result.

    My personal advice is that you need to address the way you deal with these things and open them to public debate and decision. A forum for opening cases against people and debating and voting on disciplinary actions, perhaps. Because a few more incidents like this could really undermine what you're tryin to do here. I personally don't feel I could continue in a forum that espoused anarchist values but was run in such a way.
     
  8. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    To stray further from the discussion, after reading multiple posts by the bannee, I actually agree with the decision taken. I didn't find any of the remarks offensive. Crude? Yes. Offensive? No.
    However, rE sIs Tanz seemed to have a tendency to debate with any member that went against her beliefs, without being able to back any of them up. When she seemed to be on the losing side of the argument she resorted to personal attacks, usually in larger font than typical.
    To me however, I should also add, this case is now closed.
     
  9. idlebagger

    idlebaggerActive Member Forum Member


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    Oct 5, 2009
     
    Green Anarchist.
     
  10. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Yea... rE sIs Tanz wasn't threatning to kill anyone and i think the banning was a little too much. I actually liked seeing the back and forth of his/her beliefs and how that person was shut down time and time again!

    Just dont turn into an infoshop forum where you cant even fucking discuss certain peoples because they are so divided or "conspiracy theories". When you start denieing peoples right to be different with whatever anarcho-text you need, then YOU WILL DIE. Nah, jk. Yes this forum can be used as a tool and all, but i love to accept the diversity in opinions of people. And like i said before, seeing them having their beliefs torn apart!
     
  11. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
     
  12. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    yeah i have to agree that the banning was extreme. Personally I was enjoying laughs at her expense, and she wasn't making this site look bad, just her self and her values. As far as the homophobic comment and personal attacks, I would have issued a warning first before banning, but whatever. In spite of that I still enjoy this website, I enjoy the arguments, and debates. I am sure she won't be the first person who comes here looking to rile up the folks here, and the site deals with it in the future should be considered.

    -the anxietist
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    It is.

    And the collective positions of this website is that neither integrist islamism nor homophobia is tolerated here.

    If you want to take part of the collective work and say your opinion, then you are free to post a collective decision so members can devide wether or not tolerate homophobia here.

    By both sides ? Since the begginning she was only talking shit, there was no way to have a debate with her since she refuse to answer the questions.... Then she started a topic to call me a bush-minded because i oppose to islamist terrorism just like any anarchist with a brain would do. And on top of all, she's preaching veils for women and she's homophobic.

    Why the fuck are you defending her ? Did she bring anything interessing to this community ? NO. Just fights, insults, and disgusting homophobia.

    Why do you think an anarchist forum should be synonym of no rule ? This is false and this is a stupid argument i'm sick of hearing. Anarchism is order minus power, end of the story. Yes, anarchist do censors asshole they fights. They always did, and they always will.

    This forum is NOT a free tribune. It is a TOOL for the scene.

    All of you know we already ban racist and nazis, why act like censorship was a surprise ?

    I hope we will not go through an useless debate like this one every time we ban an idiot who's doing the opposite of our political positions as we described in the "who are we" text

    hahaha, if you are so worried about the anarchist values start by stopping to tolerate religious propaganda and homophobia...

    If you think tolerating the worst kind of intolerant ideas is part of the "anarchist values", then we don't share the same values.

    I suppose you also have nothing against talking to nazis and accepting them inside anarchist groups because doing the opposite would be "so against the anarcho values" ?


    I would say that all anarchist events in the whole history censored their ennemy, but you will say again that i'm talking in the name of the whole anarchist community and blah blah blah....


    Anyway, even if she had nothing of an anarchist, even if she was an indictrinated religious fool, even if she was homophobic........ We would have tolerated her if she accepted to do only one thing: focus on what UNITE us, not focus on what DIVIDE us...... (neither homophobia neither islamism being one of our "point of unity")
    and she obviously failed to do.



    We are VERY FAR from being all the same on this forum. There is a lot of different point of views, so a lot of things to debate. I doubt this forum will ever be 100% only anarchist. And even if this was the case, trust me there's still a shitload of things to debate and disagree on.

    As for tolerating different point of views and such, weren't you one of the first to call peoples to go beat some nazis at this upcomming anti-fascist counter-protest against the NSM?






    Uh.....
    In the same line, you pretend moderators on this website should be ONLY anarchists, and a few words after you defend the fact that non-anarchist peoples should be tolerated.

    And between Ghost in the void and an homophobic religious asshole, if i were to pick the person who have the most anarchist ideas..... the choice wouldn't be hard....



    We did. I tryed to explain her many time we have to focus on what unite us not on what divide us. But she didn't want to listen.
     
  14. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    It appears that the collective decision so far is that you were out of line. But I probably shouldnt say that since I'll probably get banned too. :)
     
  15. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 19, 2009
     
    I'm glad the idiot Islamist has been booted. She would've wasted too much of everyone's energy with her nonsense.

    I'm all up for debate, but trying to debate with a religious fool is like trying to herd cats.
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Like i said, you are free to start a collective decision to change our political point of views, but so far the banned person has broken a lot of our "rules".... religion, homophobia, insults, preaching to break women rights, etc....

    Big big paranoia. Or maybe you just want some attention?

    It's only a matter of time before some peoples here start calling us dictators and stalinists :lmao:


    Same here.

    But anyway, there was no debate at all. If she was open minded and she would accept to answer the question that a lot of peoples asked her, maybe it could be interessing to some peoples (not to me, but i would respect others decision).... She just came here to say she's right and we're wrong, while refusing to ask any questions. That's not a debate, that's a troll!
     
  17. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Ungovernable, i didnt see anything that Re Ziz Stanz or whatever posted about being a nazi and shit. Yea i was thinking you would write that, i mean i DONT tolerate that, because thats not diversity. And i just threw that infoshop thing in there because i was just on the site forums about 10 minutes before i posted that and i was flabbergasted. But the persons gone now, no need to linger on the subject.
     
  18. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    You know, besides infighting, this type of reverse discrimination is the biggest problem in anarchism. You want freedom and the free exchange of ideas but only if it's within your "rules".

    You say we can't discuss topics with homophobics or sexists? Why? Aren't they the people we SHOULD be talking with? Otherwise it's just a bunch of self righteous "anarchists" patting eachother on the back.

    I agree that she was on the ignorant side, but it seems that you're much more interested in supressing religion than actually improving the quality of this board.

    Incase you haven't realized there are plenty of spiritual anarchists (Tolstoy, Thoreau, Gandhi), and their opinion is just as valid as yours or mine.

    Shit like this is the reason I lost faith in collective ideals a long time ago. As much as they say it's "a collective decision", there's always some power hungry cockwad there to push people around.

    If you want the consensus, look at the replies on this thread. The majority thinks you were wrong. So does that mean we get a new mod? Of course not. Because this is anarchism, not freedom. The system set up here is no better than what we're pretending to rail against.

    Ever see the show "Xavier: Renegade Angel"? You remind me of the "Squatters rights!!!" guy. It's apparent that your politics have come full circle.

    I've said my peace. But I guess I better remember not to tell you I go to a Unitarian church and practice Zen buddhism, because then I wouldn't be anarchist enough for your anarchy.
     
  19. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I agree unless if its someone toting Nazism, or fascism, then that, to me, should always be suppressed.
     
  20. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, and they have plenty of forums to spout their shit on. I'd like to be able to come here and NOT see any nazi or racist propaganda. There's enough of it elsewhere... even if your not looking for it :(

    -the anxietist
     
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