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Orwell - Homage to Catalonia

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by nodz, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I was reading Orwell''s Homage to Catalonia and in chapter 11, he is describing some of the street fighting in Barcelona, that was going on between the Civil Guards/PUSC/POUM/CNT/UGT/FAI etc and he mentions that there were British warships in the harbour.

    He then goes on to say

    The English newspapers gave it out that these ships were proceeding to Barcelona 'to protect British interests', but in fact they made no move to do so; that is, they did not land any men or take off any refugees. There can be no certainty about this, but it was at least inherently likely that the British Government, which had not raised a finger to save the Spanish Government from Franco, would intervene quickly enough to save it from its own working class.

    Just a question, any idea why the British or anyone else for that matter did not try and intervene and protect the Cabellero government from the facist uprising of Franco? ANy reasoning behind not entering Spain?
     
    nodz, Sep 10, 2010
    #1

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Probably because british didn't want an "unstable" country near them and it's easier to collaborate with a dictatorship ? i think the conflict between british, franco and mussolini only happenned later...

    anyway, big imperialist countries never intervene to stop dictatorships... they don't care, its not in their interest... and i doubt the anarchists would have wanted the help of british army...
     
    ungovernable, Sep 10, 2010
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  3. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It's not just the anarchists not wanting help but it seems strange to me that the British government would let the 'stable' government of Cabellero fall to the 'unstable' one of Franco
     
    nodz, Sep 10, 2010
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  4. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    franco was probs a lot more of a 'stable' gov then an anarchist or CNT one would be
     
    butcher, Sep 10, 2010
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  5. Bakica

    Bakica Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    why?
     
    Bakica, Sep 10, 2010
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  6. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Understand that Franco was probably more stable than the anarchists but from what I can gather from Orwell's book, it was Franco that tried to sieze control first and then the various anarchist/socialist/communist gtoups tried to resist the right wing fascist government taking control. It wasn't the workers and anarchists that tried to overrun the existing Cabellero government first. It was then Franco that finally seized control in some parts of the country because of in-fighting between the various left wing groups.
     
    nodz, Sep 10, 2010
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  7. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    i put stable within inverted brackets, as I meant that the Franco regime was to be more stable insofar as British business and geo-political interests were concerned. Inre: responding to why the poms didn't intervene in the conflict.
     
    butcher, Sep 10, 2010
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  8. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yep probably agree with that, all to do with trade etc, and probably a lot easier to trade with one facist right wing government than many left wing split groups.
     
    nodz, Sep 10, 2010
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  9. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    or one hostile anarchist mass, lol
     
    butcher, Sep 10, 2010
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  10. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    exactly

    western capitalist government are always scared of the so called "unstable" regimes, just look at how the USA was scared when cuba turned communist, it's against their interest.... They were scared that the spain would become another USSR satellite, and like i said it's easier to collaborate with a capitalist state or a dictatorship for economy and politics

    the anarchists would have refused collaboration between capitalist countries and autonomious spain and would have become some sort of ennemies

    not one single capitalist countries have advantage in seeing a country turn unstable without government...
     
    ungovernable, Sep 10, 2010
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  11. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    this is a slight characterisation, there were regions supportive of Franco's coup from the beginning. Catalonia obviously being the other extreme, the CNT stronghold.
    Moreover, Franco's victory was a combination of a number of things, a lot of people try to pinpoint ONE key point, usually for ideological purposes. The trots blame the CNT for not taking over the State apparatus etc, anarchists often blame Stalin, etc.
    It was a combination of lack of arms of the CNT-FAI, the re-establishment of a standing army in favour of the militias, the undermining of revolutionary struggle by Stalinists, Franco's support from Italy, Germany, etc., and the fact the antifa side didn't declare Moroccan Independence, which would've made Franco's use the Army of Africa much less reliable.
     
    butcher, Sep 10, 2010
    #11
  12. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    .....this just in, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.... :lmao:
     
    punkmar77, Sep 10, 2010
    #12
  13. butcher

    butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    this just in, ungovernable just shit a brick :ecouteurs: :lmao:
     
    butcher, Sep 10, 2010
    #13
  14. nodz

    nodz Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Shit if he's still alive, so did 45 million Spaniards....
     
    nodz, Sep 10, 2010
    #14
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