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Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by trevor9849, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    :lmao:

    No, fuck no, make it up as you go along, one size fits all...everyone is welcome, including those that have traditionally murdered our brothers and sisters, because after all we are kinder, gentler, more liberal anarchists that have completely forgotten the past and are more than eager to repeat it.

    No thank you. I don't need to make people think anything, I'm not recruiting anybody to 'my cause'... I do and am helped by others that do, and understand, and remember, and will never forgive or forget.

    You on the other hand Freakboi, are welcome to do whatever the fuck you want and listen to whoever the fuck you want as well...and learn your own lessons however you see fit.
     
  2. The Freakboi

    The FreakboiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Those who have traditionally murdered our brothers and.. what the hell are you talking about? Who has murdered our brothers and sisters? Are you honestly suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you or is on the fence regarding certain political issues wants you dead?

    So either you don't actually want anarchy or you want to force it on people? You know, anarchy is kind of dependent on people working together, regardless of difference of opinion.
     
  3. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2010
     
    This again...
     
  4. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Are you fucking dense?

    No I don't want anarchy, I want anarchism....and please don't condescend me, if you want to compromise, like I said before, go right ahead many of us refuse to and no amount of "I'm not elitist" belly aching from you is going to change that...
     
  5. The Freakboi

    The FreakboiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Clearly because I have no idea what that was supposed to mean. You ask if I'm dense yet make no attempt to elaborate or explain.

    How delightfully pedantic...

    Oh, I knew it wasn't going to make a difference. I mean, how could I change the opinion of someone who has already heavily implied that anyone who disagrees with them is not worth their attention. Sorry for the heavy sarcasm, but I see life as a learning process and I'm really not going to learn anything from spending my life preaching to the converted.
     
  6. TardisPunk

    TardisPunkActive Member Forum Member


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    I've never really listened to Skrewdriver or RAC bands. I once went on to YouTube and listened to a Skrewdriver song out of curiosity, but i noticed one of the suggestions was by some other band with a song about Rudolf Hess! I used to like Condemned 84 even though i knew they were right wing. I'm not sure they are Nazi though. But i heard one of their songs which was homophobic so i don't listen to them now. I also liked the 4 Skins but they seem a bit dodgy now. I only listen to Oi! bands like The Oppressed nowdays.
     
  7. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    You like to argue as if coming from a position of knowledge...you want to compromise with people and ideas that have proven deadly to anarchists for centuries..you want to passively aggressively insult me as pedantic yet I'm supposed to have all the patience in the world with you....sorry if you don't understand my position and can't relate to it then you'll have to learn your own lessons.

    Also I'm not interested in either getting the last word or continuing this discussion with you so this is my last post on this subject directed at you.
     
  8. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    While it would be better to split your quote up and respond in parts, I either do it in a round-the-houses process or it is just long. In which case, I hope this remains coherent.

    It seems we're (as in pretty much all of us on this board) in agreement that listening to fascist music is more than questionable - it's fucking ridiculous. This is irrespective of the quality of the music (I recall - I may have said this before - that is I watched a documentary on white power bands with a mate and he commented that one of the bands sounded just like mine. Horrid, but I had to admit the similarity in musical style). Listening to neutral music made by fascists (most obviously Burzum - that seems to take inspiration from his Norwegian(?) roots without being explicitly nationalistic) appears to be more of a grey area. If the music is just music, some people will find that permissible (though this isn't everyone's opinion). However, again, most people consider bands that advocate or preach a particular view are seriously questionable. That seems a basic summary of this thread.

    Now the question is how far this is taken and how far it should be taken. Fascists singing fascist songs are a no-no. But then, a band like the Bad Brains are more divisive. Personally, I rarely, if ever, listen to them now. There are three reasons for this:
    1) Their homophobia. Now, Freakboi, you may say they've gone back on this. But the evidence is limited and they certainly haven't properly pushed acceptance of homosexuality. There present views are unclear but their past is undeniable. To be honest, listening to strict homophobes, to me, is little better than listening to fascists - it's a powerfully dangerous intolerance.
    2) Their Rastafarianism. Again, being Rasta is not a problem, strictly speaking, each to their own. I can listen to Christians and Satanists quite happily as long as their music is particularly preachy (accept perhaps Satanism because, most the time, I see it as a joke). But I wouldn't listen to a Christian hardcore band that ran around praising Christ in their songs - it would do my fucking head in. It's exactly the same with Bad Brains. How can I listen to a song like 'Coptic Times' or 'I and I Survive' and think 'fucking Hell' (is that a pun?)? Now, I really, REALLY rate Bad Brains musically but I can't really put up with this shit anymore. Besides HR does really seem to just be a crazy, unpleasant stoner these days.
    3) Saw them live about 5 years ago when I had considered this message less. They were awful. Kind of spat on my appreciation for them anyway.

    But there are other bands where I still feel there are questions. Take one example, SSS play some of my favourite music of recent years. Most their songs are about skate-boarding and living fast. However, they have tracks like Hallowed Grey that basically says 'fuck environmentalism, let's pave everywhere' and on their new album they have a song called Birdshit about nagging girlfriends and a song called Politics of Convenience where they lay into revolutionary politics. It doesn't suit me but it's a couple of tracks and they are actually just normal hardcore guys with no real prejudices, but no real politics either. Besides Barney Greenway is on the new album and he's 'right on'. It's a quandary that I'll let slide at the moment.

    I'm going to leave my thoughts there. Cheers.
     
  9. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    But then, I'm a big hypocrite, as these lines I wrote highlight:


    From town to town, I’ve been around,
    In every zone of the underground,
    Wherever my agency sends me I have been.
    I’ve visited every kind of school,
    Each individual class a class of individuals,
    Literally thousands of characters I have seen.
    Some schools have been harsh and some are hell,
    (Or as close to it as far as I can tell)
    With broken walls, and no rules and yet no one’s free,
    But some seem structured in a kinder way,
    Or at least they do for my short stay
    And it cannot help but bring back a memory -

    Of the times that they must be going through –
    When everything was still clear and new,
    When songs were simply lines to sing –
    And life was such a confusing thing –
    But it’d be all clear… when you left home.

    My agency have now placed me in a single school –
    Where the children can be wild but the staff are cool –
    And I’ve been a part of it all for quite a while.
    I’m trying not to ram down the throat –
    Of each student learning that’ll make them choke –
    By keeping an open-mind and a happy smile.
    And some days are stressful and some are shit
    (But I couldn’t really care one bit –
    Because I’m there like an uncle of a family)
    And when I have to intervene and right –
    The wrongs of a youthful, petty fight,
    It cannot help but bring back a memory.

    And the times that they are going through –
    Felt tough for me and probably for you,
    But now they seem like a simpler time,
    For life still weighs heavy on my mind –
    And it got no clearer… when I left home.

    ‘Cause though I now know roughly who I am,
    I’m still trying to fuck the man
    But now it’s someone (something?) vaguer than my Dad,
    And though my acne is mostly a past concern,
    I’m learning I’ve still got much to learn
    About liberty, love and other things I never knew I had.
    And I teach in schools to try to help the world –
    But sometimes a classroom’s like a prison cell –
    And I often think I am a part of all the woe.
    And writing lines doesn’t really help at all
    Except for making me feel like a radical
    When all I do is prop up the status quo.

    And the times that I am going through –
    Even though I’m happy – can make me blue,
    For this constant cognitive dissonance –
    Seems inevitable in my circumstance –
    Of being an anarchist teacher in a school –
    Enforcing every soul-crushing rule.
    And I wish that these times that I’m going through –
    Were like the times when I was at school,
    When it was all a simpler time,
    When only petty things weighed on my mind,
    And songs were only lines to sing,
    Because now I don’t know the answers to anything
    And life might be clearer… if I could go home.
     
  10. maxx

    maxxMember New Member


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    I think that some of you really need to relax a little. As if there's people that think that anyone who reads Mien Kampf or listens to a Skrewdriver song inherently makes them a racist.
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    No, it makes you a chickenshit fence-rider collaborationist...
     
  12. The Freakboi

    The FreakboiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well, I have read "me in camp f" for the same reason I've read the Bible and various passages of the Qu'ran: its good to understand your enemy.

    However, I will agree with Punkmar that there is absolutely no compromising with Nazis, if you buy a Screwdriver CD, you're helping a band spread a message of hate and, well, you're keeping them in work.
     
  13. maxx

    maxxMember New Member


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    Well Mar, I think that's a poor attitude to have. There's a lot to be learned about the ideologies you oppose and if you don't really invest any time or energy into learning about them, you've become what we oppose: an ideology based on ignorance and prejudice. Reading Mien Kampf doesn't make me a chickenshit fence-riding collaborationist; it makes me insightful to the other perspectives and actually have some idea about what I'm fighting against. Furthermore, I think that Burzum makes some incredibly beautiful music.
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    You can think what you like...I've read that idiotic book and it gave no insight whatsoever....as far as listening to Skrewdriver and Burzum, to me that does make you a chickenshit fence-riding collaborationist....of course you're free to think and do whatever the fuck you want. As far as me turning into what we oppose, walk in my shoes and then open your mouth.
     
  15. Green_Destroyed

    Green_DestroyedMember New Member


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    If I ONLY listened to music by bands who'se views I agree with, all I could listen to would be Crust/Anarcho Punk, RABM, etc (though, those do take up a massive chunk of my listening time still). So I draw the line at lyrics. I'll NEVER listen to NSBM, RAC, patriotic bullshit, etc. But I do like a few Black Metal bands with some....sketchy connections. I like Burzum, but I don't let any of my money go to him, I just listen to downloads of his albums. When I first got into him, I was young, didn't know about his past, and I wasn't even politically aware at the time (though, I was definitely anti-racist), and, musically, he's made some of the most influential and incredible sounds I've heard. I'm not gonna let the fact that he's a piece of shit, nationalist nutjob ruin music I've loved for years; art can transcend the artist (and, on a vaguely related note, I seem to remember hearing that Bakunin and Proudhun both had some anti-semitic views at some point, though of course that was a very different time, still an example of ones creation transcending themself). HOWEVER, once said art becomes a vehicle for the promotion of abhorrent views, I want nothing to do with it, regardless of how it sounds.
     
  16. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Speaking of Anal Cunt, I am glad Seth Putnam is dead.
    He was an asshole who made horrible music, and was a homophobic, sexist, racist who should have died sooner.
     
  17. maxx

    maxxMember New Member


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    PC wimp. Get a sense of humour.
     
  18. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Wannabe brainz, get some o_O taste.
     
  19. maxx

    maxxMember New Member


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    "I'm more the kind that thinks that being politically correct is pretty faggoty, and I mean that in the non-homosexual way. People who get too hung up on words are big pussies in my opinion, and they should grow up, get a pair, and realize words are just words and the intention is more important than the actual words used." -Kidder Kaper
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Obviously the gentleman in question had absolutely no desire to be part of this community.....bye bye
     
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