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Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by trevor9849, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Don't be fucking ridiculous, those white power bands we are talking about in this topic are clearly neo-nazis they are not indians.

    So now there's nothing wrong with neo-nazi music as long as it doesn't include racist lyrics ? That's still a way of funding their propaganda. By supporting Burzum you support their idiotic neo-nazi singer and he will take the money gained from the fame of his band to fund his neo-nazi activities.
    That's like saying we should let the Ku Klux Klan fund itself as long as it's not by selling neo-nazi propaganda.

    it's still stupid, but less important. Muslims and christians will not attack you on the streets or make thousands of deaths like in russia

    Anyway, it's still contradictory for an anarchist to listen to this bullshit. ESPECIALLY if the money gathered from their fame will be used to fund a muslim extremist group or something like that.

    Won't happen. Thepiratebay.org is funded by a famous neo-nazi.
     
  2. Malignance_is_bliss

    Malignance_is_blissExperienced Member Experienced member


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    source? I had no idea of this.
     
  3. puck

    puckMember Forum Member


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    no, no.
    liking a band doesn't mean you support everything their talking/singing about.
    a lot of kids nowadays listen to music all about rape, murder and pure evil.
    "why?" i asked them. "CUZ ITS BRUTAL!" they said.
    ... i don't even have to tell you how stupid that is.
    Although (i know)these kids really are just stupid, i also know they don't actually want to murder and rape people.
    but why would you want to listen to music that promotes what you're against?
    or even if ur not extremely opposed to a certain subject, still, why listen to something for the hell of it?
    where's the value? the quality?
    what's the point?

    But how about this one, guys: some people listen to music in languages they don't understand. Only for the sound of the music. What if what they were listening to was actually "go to the mall. buy things. listen to what we say. conform." but they didn't know it? you couldnt say their agreeing with their music's beleifs if they don't even know what their music is saying.

    and i think thats part of the problem nowadays too.
    kids listen to music with horrible messages without knowing what their even talking about, or without really taking their message seriously.

    message is very important.
    if your passsionate about something, then wouldn't it bother you to listen to someone encouraging whatever it is that your against. it would bother me! and hell, i'm not extremely intelligent, but i think that makes some fucking sense!
    and when u go out and purchase a cd of whatever fuck band you might, you ARE supporting the distribution and manufacture of their music,,, which includes their message!

    so, no. i don't think liking a certain band means sharing their beliefs, always.
    but if ur against it, why are you listening to it?
    and if ur neutral...pick a side already.

    not you in particular, Trevor, but anyone with a mind of their own should make a choice for themselves on where they stand. people should give more thought to what they do and why.
     
  4. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I never heard of this before and I hardly believe that it is true - the swedish pirate party took over the ISP last year - they wouldn't do such a thing if there would be any doubt.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_%28Sweden%29

    BUT:
    In April 2007, a rumor was confirmed on the Swedish talk show Bert that The Pirate Bay had received financial support from right-wing entrepreneur Carl Lundström. This caused some furor since Lundström, an heir to the Wasabröd fortune, is known for financing several far-right political parties and movements like Sverigedemokraterna and Bevara Sverige Svenskt (Keep Sweden Swedish). The size of Lundström's contributions is unknown, as are his motives. During the talk show, Piratbyrån spokesman Tobias Andersson acknowledged that "without Lundström's support, Pirate Bay would not have been able to start" and claimed that most of the money went towards acquiring servers and bandwidth.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay

    PRQ, the swedish Internet service provider hosting TPB is said to host a right-wing french blog Fdesouche(?) too - but otherwise I never heard anything else.

    The torrent problem with german nutzi bands results from the lack of moderation - right now it seems to be a problem to contact a moderator at all - and the torrents are uploaded by users - too bad if they are nutzis...
     
  5. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    crass turns people on to anarchism, does it not? so i suppose music like skrewdriver is dangerous in that respect, but why should music change somone's life....? does gangster rap make people kill or hit women?

    i guess we're all lost, weak minded humans and should take into consideration the influence of words
     
  6. puck

    puckMember Forum Member


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    Yea! that's what i'm saying! About the power of message.
    but i wouldn't say that music always causes people to do things, nor is it the main reason people do fucked up things.

    And, also, i wouldn't go as far as saying that humans are weak minded, even if some or even most of us are.
    i think more than anything we are either close-minded, blank-minded or brainwashed.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Yes, francais de souche is a fascist, racist and xenophobian blog very popular in france, they had to move to PRQ after we hacked them with DDoS too often ;)


    As for the links between TPB and nazis, it has been proven and admitted by the team


    from wikipedia:

    In April 2007, a rumor was confirmed on the Swedish talk show Bert that The Pirate Bay had received financial support from right-wing entrepreneur Carl Lundström. This caused some furor since Lundström, an heir to the Wasabröd fortune, is known for financing several far-right political parties and movements like Sverigedemokraterna and Bevara Sverige Svenskt (Keep Sweden Swedish). The size of Lundström's contributions is unknown, as are his motives. During the talk show, Piratbyrån spokesman Tobias Andersson acknowledged that "without Lundström's support, Pirate Bay would not have been able to start" and claimed that most of the money went towards acquiring servers and bandwidth.[39][40]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundstr%C3%B6m

    http://www.side-line.com/news_comments. ... 51_0_2_0_C

    http://internest.org.uk/2008/03/pirate- ... extremist/

    http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8741/the_p ... lesharing/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1S9n81ras

    they confirmed the rumors here:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/07 ... ing_money/
     
  8. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yes, you were right, I didn't thought of the 2007 "incident" - but now with the Pirate Party?
     
  9. Malignance_is_bliss

    Malignance_is_blissExperienced Member Experienced member


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    thanks Ungov, very interesting.
     
  10. danzigmcfly

    danzigmcflyActive Member Forum Member


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    ive had long debates with metal heads over lyrical content before and from what ive gathered they really could give two shits their primary concern is how hard it is to play in the first place in fact other than punks the only people i meet that actually care about lyrics are rednecks (all of their songs are about shit luck and patriotism) and fans of rap who constantly try and tell me that their songs have the merit and are about more than selling drugs and screwing by the way i love that a rapper will release on the same album songs that both glorify and disapprove of selling drugs
     
  11. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I used to be one of those people who would still listen to music by artists I vehemently disagree with (Burzum), as long as they didn't actually express such views with their music, but I've come around and stopped listening to anything made by right wing shitheads. Of course I don't have to 100% agree with a band to listen to them, but if the artists views are the exact opposite of mine, I won't listen to them, even if I were to just download the music and never buy it/promote it/buy merch/etc. Listening to something by someone who's views I wish didn't exist just doesn't make sense. What turned me around to this was reading some more into Varg from Burzum's past...when I saw that he once planned to blow up a Crust squat, that was the final straw. So, liking a band does not mean you have to completely agree with their beliefs, but if their beliefs are in direct opposition with yours, I don't think listening to them makes any sense.


    And as for "shock" bands like Anal Cunt or S.O.D, I just find them fucking stupid. They're bad for Punk and they're fucking immature bullshit...satire that is political commentary is great, like some old Dead Kennedy's stuff, but when it's just "HITLER ABORTION DIARRHEA SHOOT HEROIN" (or plain stupid like S.O.D...which ENT summed up perfectly with "If You're On;y In It For the Music (SOD Off)"). And Seth Putnam from Anal Cunt isn't entirely non-serious about his image anyways, from what I've heard, so I'm not gonna support racist/sexist/homophobic/Nazi glorifying bastards like him.

    Interestingly though, Danny Lilker of S.O.D also ended up playing in Brutal Truth, who are very left wing and political, so I think a lot of S.O.D's lyrics were satirical of the "patriotic American" (Speak English Or Die seems to fit that bill). But then I guess Milano has since gotten to be a pretty messed up dude, while Scott Ian sold the fuck out and Dan Lilker just started making awesome Deathgrind with a good message (if you don't believe me look up the song "Anti-Homophobe", plus they have tns of anti-capitalist lyrics and songs speaking about marijuana legalization). So I still won't listen to S.O.D 'cause I think they're stupid, but Brutal Truth has a former member of S.O.D and Brutal Truth are great, and have righteous lyrics as well.
     
  12. KAAOS-82

    KAAOS-82Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    getting back to the issue at hand which is: "Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs." music should by no means be a manifesto on how to live your life, its a form of expression by a particular artist. You may agree with it in some instances and hell it might relate to your life a lot which I'm sure it will if your a punk. But there is plenty of music genres and artists out there that have stigmas attached to it based on the artists personal beliefs or lifestyle choices but that doesn't mean that the music itself cant be appreciated for its value. The singer of Soft Cell sucks off horses, that doesnt mean the cover of Tainted Love is a bad song.
     
  13. danzigmcfly

    danzigmcflyActive Member Forum Member


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    agreed. im a fan of bad brains but by no means does that make me a homophobe
     
  14. puck

    puckMember Forum Member


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    awesome, awesome conversation
    :ecouteurs:
     
  15. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Rather listen to music that promotes horse-blowing than nazi crap. Plus, imagine how awesome the horse feels regularly throat-fucking a pseudo-celebrity.


    Still don't why a self-proclaimed anarchist would ever WANT to listen to right-wing band in the first place, let alone enough to grow to LIKE it even for only the music. Give nazi/racist scum not one fucking inch.
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    No, but anti-fascism and anarchism is.

    Does he fund a sect of horse-sucking persons with the money he gets from the fame of his band ?

    You don't even take my arguments into consideration.
     
  17. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Answering the title question: No, liking a band does not mean you have to agree with their beliefs. I listen to Conflict and plenty of other bands with vegan messages but I'm not into that. I actually have CONFLICT painted on my leather jacket as I'm sure many others do to. I love Minor threat but I'm not edge

    But why listen to skrewdriver when other non-rascist Oi bands are so much better.
    Skrewdriver's music is below par compared to other skinhead bands like the oppressed or the old 4-skins
     
  18. trevor9849

    trevor9849Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You guys are all making very good points but like I said, I'm not the one who listens to Skrewdriver. And I don't really listen to right wing bands, but if I come across an artist that I happen to think makes good music then I don't think listening to a couple songs can do much harm. Also, music doesn't create your beliefs... YOU DO! Make your beliefs what you think is right, not what some guy in a band says is right. For example, I like a little Death Metal, but I don't agree with killing and raping people. Just listen to what you want. It's music.
     
  19. trevor9849

    trevor9849Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hmm, I agree.
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Then you're not an anti-fascist, i don't see how you can be AGAINST fascism and like FASCIST MUSIC.

    Yes it does harm. What makes a right wing band popular ? Their fans and people who listen to them. You're part of it, so you're accomplice of their fame, especially if you normalize the fact to listen and encourage them. You're contributing to promote this band, indirectly but surely.
    And i'm pretty sure all of you that defend themselves by saying you just download and listen to it without encouraging the band are also sharing those bands in your soulseek filelist. I'm pretty sure some of your friends also heard this music because you were listening to it. So here you go, you are promoting what you are fighting against and helping the neo-nazi scene to keep staying alive.

    No fucking comments. And seriously, you are proud of saying that on an anti-fascist forum ? If some neo-nazi come accross this message i bet he will laught his ass off until he piss in his pants

    it's funny how all the people defending that you can listen to nazi music just for the music will also pretend that it isn't normal for a nazi to listen to black music. I don't see how you can understand that it is contradictory for a nazi to encourage black music but an antifascist can listen to nazi music...
    How the fuck can you encourage what you're fighting against ? We are supposed to fight against neo-nazi music, anarchists want to see this scene disseapear, how can you pretend to share those ideas and encourage it on the other hand?


    All this ridiculous speech makes me think of those so-called apolitical fencewalkers who say they can hang out with neo-nazis if they are not racist, after all "it's just friends" in the same way that you say "it's just music". Stop normalizing what you are fighting against. Neo-nazi music isn't normal and listening to it isn't neither. Especially if this music funds neo-nazi groups and propaganda -- which isnt the case of other examples on this thread, like bad brains, they arent funding an homophobic group... as for conflict, i don't see how promoting vegetarianism and animal rights is wrong, on an anarchist point of view. I'm not a vegetarian but i dont see how i could possibly be against the promotion of vegetarianism.
     
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