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Helping cops on protests

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bakica, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. dr. dee

    dr. deeMember New Member


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    Jul 7, 2013
     
    (sorry for registering twice, but i changed e-mail and forgot my password)

    interesting debate, not only for the aspect militant struggle, but for opposing a destructive system in general.
    well, you don't have to enter the fray to experience this, you can find this kind of behaviour on every highway, almost every time some poor souls suffer from having a car accident:
    bystanders, curious onlookers, eager spectators, ghoulish look-merriers, no phenomenon, just bleak reality.
    always keeping a safe and clean distance they comment and discuss like true experts, mesmerized by agony and pain and of course far from getting into close contact.
    i am a doctor, bound by an oath i still hold up with some determination, so i had no problem boxing and kicking my way through the vicious circle of vultures and ghouls, just to do my job and humane obligation.

    for the greater picture, i mentioned it before, not limited to to militant confrontation with the law, i regard this little gem of recent reading as quite fitting:
    please note that the authors are no anarchists, so their conclusion about the impact on democratic institutions needs some adjustment or restatement towards terms like direct democracy or free/ open community based on truly legimated societal laws made up by the people day after day anew -
    starting with a quite simple revolutionary declaration of independence like:
    while statements like this
    are the perfect explanation for the minor role "anarchism" plays in the current revolutionary movement.
     
  2. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    Are you kidding me? First off, what you just wrote doesn't make much sense, and secondly, you didn't even reply to my question. Either way your answer isn't important, because where you live and your past experiences means nothing. I can hold an opinion about anything I fucking want even if I haven't experienced it. It's like saying guys cant know what its like to be a girl so they have to be ignored in such topics as women's right. I call BS on your argument.
    =That was a rhetorical question.
    And please, don't "my dear" me, that's a lame way to dominate people and it's sure as hell not gonna work on me. You sound like you feel pretty privileged to me.
    And how exactly did I stereotype you? I really suggest you look into these words before using them, or at least explain HOW I stereotype you by doing the same thing you did to bakica to prove YOU a point.

    I quote again:
     
  3. dr. dee

    dr. deeMember New Member


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    Jul 7, 2013
     
    about annie:
    and far more worse:
    and she even gave you a clue:
    as far as my german goes, there is a organisation of "critical" cops, collecting data, publishing issues and supporting the victims of police repression.

    sure you can, but i think you should't - and opinion not based on experience or knowledge is BS, pretty useless for any constructive debate.
     
  4. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    Look, an opinion will always be based on knowledge, whether its experience based knowledge or simply having empathy and being able to guess more or less how you would react if you actually saw a wounded cop in a protest.

    Thinking that you shouldn't have an opinion on this topic because your lack of "real" street knowledge is such a bullshit elitist way of thinking. And no, this does not mean its okay for someone to have an opinion on personal choices or lifestyles, that is completely different from what we are talking about now. This does NOT mean I think its okay to have an opinion about someones personal choice, I repeat, its NOT okay to think a woman is oppressed because she decides to wear a hijab. I hope I don't have to repeat this again.

    It was a rhetorical question, how many times do I have to explain that? My point is that it doesn't matter where you're from or if you have had a "real" confrontation with the military or the cops. I'm from Kosovo and I'm a refugee, do you think that's enough to form an opinion about this? Don't I now have the overhand of this conversation because I have more "cred" because I have had to deal with asshole cops and the military? Nah.
    And its ridiculous to think even for a second that they wouldn't cover up police violence. Police violence always gets covered up. Even if they really fuck up and get kicked out of the force they usually land other jobs where they can keep bullying people.

    Edit: I also showed that wikpedia article to my boyfriend, who is german, for a better translation and no, they are not good cops trying to protect your rights. And wikipedia is a really bad source for information anyway.
     
  5. dr. dee

    dr. deeMember New Member


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    Jul 7, 2013
     
    5 cents of my experience, coming from working with arrested young "anarchists":

    it makes a difference if a person is blaming the cops for getting caught shoplifting, or:
    an activist promoting and practising a main point of the special character of anarchism: egality.
    compare it with anarchist history:
    the tradition of "activism of the deed" practised by troubled individuals fighting their vision of repression,
    with
    the practice of revolutionary armies and milicias not to shot or harm prisoners, instead feeding them, maybe even releasing them - how many fascists changed sides in the spanish revolution because the treatment they experienced as prisoners was completely different to the treatment in the fascist armies?

    (to annie: do you have any experience with the reaction of cops to your tending of casualities?)

    back to the reply:
    after only a quick search and first glance i assume you refer to the DGR vs. Aric McBay issue?
    if so, the real issue isn't the
    transphobic disgrace of the upper league of DGR, or parts of the feminist movement. but the suppression of dissenting opinions withhin the DGR - represented by Aric McBay and many others - critisizing the "exclusiveness" of the womens room.
    http://earthfirstnews.wordpress.com/201 ... esistance/
    i see you are concerned about the problems genderpeople have - thats a healthy empathy fitting a human being. - but sorry: you can't argue with empathy while missing the real issue - this looks somehow odd and sadly not many will take your arguments serious.
    it's again not that simple, there are groups - from copwatch to the german KritPol - making police violence public, so the official cover up gets more and more obsolete, the more if - and it happens - insiders whistleblow the dirty secrets.
    and your view on individual cops may come from your daily experience and give you some cred (i worked for the UN therem shortly after the "serbic" war ended, but that was long ago, so i don't really know the actual situation) but stereotyping cops in general is just impossible - kosovo isn't everywhere, the KritPo isn't everywhere and so on... cops do the dirty job for profit and state - but not everyone of them is a thug.

    you can say you won't help a injured cop because you hate them for the issues you witnessed.
    but you can't say it's right and the only way to deal with them.

    and where is the difference between your view of anarchist communities in the future,
    and the DGR's ex-clusivity of people with another opinion.

    and to annie again - please refrain from pullung the chain... thank you!
     
  6. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    You are completely missing the point, did you even read my older posts? I did not say they deserve to lie around and suffer just for being cops, I don't really have to defend my stance. If you would just bother to actually read what I write before forming an opinion on my opinions, so to say, then I wouldn't have to repeat myself all the time.
    And you will most likely never be taken seriously, class war will not be a clean war, and hey annie, nice going stereotyping those crude "low class" hooligans btw! That's working class unity for ya.

    Yes that was actually more for Annie than you, but if you really want to start talking about that, I said it, what, three times? That has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about now. You cant really disarm me by telling me I'm like them, it doesn't have anything to do with this topic.

    Copwatch? You're funny.
    You really don't see what a blind hypocrite you are. You just completely stereotyped me as an angry little kid that's been in a war and is angry at the world now? Not gonna work either.

    edit: Haha, and if we're gonna get personal it's pretty funny that you're taking cred for being such a humanitarian for something you haven't even done yet, going to Thailand and all. I plan on going to the moon some day, I'm an astronaut! Weeee.
    Basically, following your logic it's only okay to form an opinion on something you haven't experienced yourself if it's your opinion. Awesome, that's all I need to know.
     
  7. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    Probably the dumbest thing I've heard today.

    This sentece doesn't make sense really. They do dirty job for profit and state BUT NO NO they are not bad AT ALL.
     
  8. dr.. dee

    dr.. deeMember New Member


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    Jul 7, 2013
     
    ah, hmhm - i see...
    so let me say thanks for your time and your attention, thanks for playing along too and lets just wait for some new players, next time when we hear the invitation:
    "no threadbare sozzled excuses and no petty trolling too"

    - and i might be back too, but i guess i earned a break right now, so here are some goodies which might be of interest... especially if you are liable to do the same mistake again and again and again, like blaming stereotyping while stereotyping hooligans:

    Work and Play in a Globalizing World: Richard Giulianotti and Roland Robertson, Globalization and Football. London: Sage, 2009

    DECIVILISING PROCESSES: THEORETICAL SIGNIFICANCE AND SOME LINES OF RESEARCH - Stephen Mennell - International Sociology, June 1990; vol. 5, 2: pp. 205-223.

    The Contentious Fans: The Impact of Repression, Media Coverage, Grievances and Aggressive Play on Supporters' Violence - Robert Braun and Rens Vliegenthart
    International Sociology, November 2008; vol. 23, 6: pp. 796-818.

    Soccer Fan Violence: A Holistic Approach: A Reply to Braun and Vliegenthart - Ramón Spaaij and
    Alastair Anderson
    International Sociology, July 2010; vol. 25, 4: pp. 561-579.

    Two Cheers for Spaaij and Anderson: A Rejoinder - Robert Braun and Rens Vliegenthart
    International Sociology, July 2010; vol. 25, 4: pp. 581-588.
     
  9. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    Why did you make 3 accounts ?
     
  10. Paczilla

    PaczillaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 28, 2012
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    Personally, unless he is trying to kill or hurt you, i think you should help him.
     
  11. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    jejeje, inverted worlds, you are h a t e d!
    anyhow, some interesting reading - especially about the prosocial behaviour, mixed with some bookchin and the multiverse of traditions around here it's already working, maybe you soon will see, one doesn't need to sit on λόφος του Φιλοπάππου to get things going, at the foot below real life already passed the difficult phase, but there is todays special waiting:

    to make it short -
    I had a phonecall this eve, about someone asking for the whereabouts of someone else for some reason.
    next came some fluke flying by, another two fell out of the internets, we had a talk and -
    well, here it is, this eve's riddle for the jackpot,
    lights low, spot on:

    you tried to contact a number of people some months ago.
    how many were the objects of your desire?
    you met someone at a show in a city named after an infamous hooligan & firestarter - the city is?
    what is the colour in the surroundings of this city?
    when were you seperated from wonders in leathers&boots after going ...?

    I'll be generous:
    you only have to answer all 5 questions correctly, additionally it's interesting if there is anything worth mentioning, just in case... go! :ecouteurs:
     
  12. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    What the fuck is going on.............?
     
  13. Spike one of many

    Spike one of manyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Haha, just what I was wondering too...
     
  14. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    are we getting trolled.. :/ ?...
     
  15. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    No my dear friends, this is the elite of anarchists that will always be taken seriously.
     
  16. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
  17. dr.. dee

    dr.. deeMember New Member


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    Jul 7, 2013
     
    oioioi no, can't you see, i'm loved!
    it's like sitting in the city park with a closed lunch box... they just can't stay away from you...
    no, not in these dire times of murderous cops, more murderous nazis, even more murderous left- and rightwing fascists, really, it's the same shit everywhere...
    the public displays of affection may be a bit rough sometimes, a bit clumsy too for sure -
    but one just has to love them too.

    surprise, surprise - yes i was
    i was visiting a certain establishment and while standing in the queue for a movie i noticed some photos on the wall - so i had to ask one of the locals, it wasn't the best moment for that and we had some language problems. i don't know what he thought about it afterwards, but i guess it was him calling you up, i only got a "come back sometime" at the end.
    maybe there was a fluke too, but in the excitement of the moment...
    the riddle:
    i privately messaged two members of the board, who wrote about some people close to them who seemed to be in possession of extraordinary talents. out of personal and - far less important - professional interest
    i asked for some more information and - if possible - further contact. i never received an answer, so i took that for a "no".
    it was a question of curiosity and interest, not of desire, so it's n i l .
    92675-92690-92691-92692-92693-92694 - all one and the same, date 11/21/2012, i will never forget that.
    haha, it's not a color, it's a citrus fruit, the area is famous for it.
    12/02/2012 after going south and i have to admit it was my fault, i paid dearly for that and wasn't able to reestablish contact after i lost my car, notebook, job and finally had to move to another place...
    but you can't fool me, mongruad riddle weaver, here's the bonus answer:
    it's not this little hill near piraeus, it's Ἑλικών and some 1700 meters allow a nice and sometimes handy overview, just to describe how life's going on...

    noteworthy:
    i'm here for the next six days for professional reasons, after that i have to return.
    i still want to relocate from the US, so i look for a place to stay and a job covering the time until my new employment starts.
    I still would prefer the "other" opportunity, but there" seemed to be even more expensive and difficult than here - so i have to make a start somewhere and time is running.

    for yesterdays excitement: i had a really great time then, short but intensive like hardly any other time of my life, BUT i don't expect kinda reunion with wonders in leather and boots.
    i just want to meet her again, see how she's doing, have a laugh and a beer with her.
    if there is anything beyond that... fine, but again: I expect nothing.
    ...if there is nothing left, it's okay.

    time to welcome the chorus again - applause!
     
  18. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 21, 2010
     
    If a moderator is reading this topic, I suggest locking it since the community is obiously not interested in debating and the people who wanted to say something on this topic have already done so. I am really confused and I'm not sure if dr.dree and annie are the same person or not, so if someone knows the point of this conversation I would be greatful if you could share it with me.
     
  19. nclpw

    nclpwExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 25, 2012
     
    yeah would be cool if you could take this somewhere private if you're gonna keep talking in codes and all.
     
  20. Annie

    AnnieExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jun 22, 2013
     
    wow - sertraline must be the hell...
    you are really a sick old man, dr. hyde - m e as an alter ego...

    okay, we have a winner this eve.

    i visited someone today, someone you met at
    she's actually serving a sentence for writing while having an accute authority problem for the next seven weeks - she offers you:
    her room in an nine-headed commune & a package of bonus tickets across the western waters & back. additionally some money if you need it & finally:
    an audience & beer at the ende of her enclosure.

    i can't say i'm lucky with that, but she is & some of your friends around the noramerican anarchist studies too, i really don't care about 1700 meters m y o p i a, or crackademic dinner conversations - so guess i'll have some hard time coming...

    it's up to you:
    if you want to do it quick, go back to the driver you spoke to yesterdays & ask him for a ticket south.
    we need some two days to move her stuff to a new palace, but we have a comfortable sofa too & you'll get a brandnew set of furniture & computer from the general stash.
    your friends report that your job application is still valid & "on" - so you can spend your time curing your academic deviations via making your way through the collective neighborhood at the foot of mount rubbish.
    if you want to go back:
    it takes around 4 days to send off a package to the driver and you have to pick it up from him. i think it's not certain that the package will arrive in time & maybe smarter to send it over the western waters.
    if you know the fruit area, there's a big place with st. catherine close to mt ada, thats where some hairless gentlemen dwell - you could pick it up there.
    if you want to do me a favor:
    quit existing instantly & spare me the future of a poisoner.

    end using codes, here's a mailbox:
    the key is your saviours nick name, reversed 2
     
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