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Guy Fawkes was no hero, and certainly no anarchist!

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by The Hat, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    There's an old joke that is recited among many anarchist groups, circles, collectives etc. that goes like this..........

    "Guy Fawkes was the only person to enter Parliament with good intentions, and look what happened to him!"

    The truth of the matter is that Guy Fawkes was a religious fanatic who wanted the official religion of Great Britain to be Catholic, so much so that he was willing to blow up Parliament for it.

    You can celebrate Guy Fawkes day if you wish, and dress up in costume and set off as many fire crackers, and fire works as you want or are allowed to, but this is just another case of religious intolerance from what I have studied.

    You might as well say Pope Lucius III and Torquemada were heroes and liberators of oppression as well.

    (Martin Luther is another story entirely, but he was no good guy, either. He was just as racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, and anti-jewish, and anti semitic as his Catholic counterparts)

    Never forget that, throughout history, almost all wars were started due to religious intolerance/bigotry.
     
    The Hat, Nov 5, 2019
    #1

  2. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Whilst you're right about Fawkes, he was a member of a persecuted minority who faced the death penalty for his beliefs. It was illegal to be Catholic in the UK until the 1850's from memory. I think the Fawkes celebrations in the uk now are more driven these days as an inchoate expression of dissent against the powerful per se, not the persecution of Catholics as such.

    The Fawkes mask is a symbol of that dissent that has caught on globally whenever people are protesting governmental action. And the fantasy of blowing up government to solve social ills in one fell swoop is an appealing, if highly unrealistic, one. So it does tie in loosely with the desire for self governance and the no masters principles of anarchism.

    Much more worrying to my mind is the situation where supposedly secular governments are keeping or implementing laws based on religious dogma, like anti-abortion or anti-gay legislation. Here our government is trying to push through a Religious Freedoms bill that would allow religious believers to discriminate in the area of employment and service provision. It means doctors can deny medical help based on their religious bigotry. Pharmacists could refuse to stock things like condoms or dispense oral contraceptives or the morning after pill. We may even be prevented from critiquing their favourite sky friends dogma.

    Now I've got no problem with what religious types choose to believe within the privacy of their congregations and lives, but I draw the line when they pressure governments to make laws based on their particular dogma that affect us all.
     
    1xAntifa, Nov 25, 2019
    #2
  3. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sadly what you're describing is happening on many levels in the U.S. Pharmacies that are owned and operated by people with religious convictions refuse to sell any form of birth control, especially the so-called "Morning after" pill. And when our Vice President Mike Pence was governor of Indiana, he passed a "Religious Freedom" law which allow business to refuse service to people based on their religious beliefs, meaning if a gay person wanted to eat in a restaurant, if the owner had their own interpretation of the Old Testament, they could refuse service on the grounds of religious beliefs.

    I still stand by what I posted, but I appreciate the history lesson concerning religious persecution/prosecution.
     
    The Hat, Nov 25, 2019
    #3
  4. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Fair enough. I believe the Religious Freedom bill they are talking about here is actually based on the US model.
     
    1xAntifa, Nov 25, 2019
    #4
  5. ScottO

    ScottOMember Forum Member


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    Yes, Fawkes would likely have been a happy cat if only the monarch were Catholic. While atheism is most compatible with anarchism, especially looking into the distant past, I think we should recognize that religion is sometimes against the state.

    Also, see Erica Lagalisse's book, Occult Features Anarchism.
     
    ScottO, Mar 15, 2020
    #5
    punkmar77 likes this.

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