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Guns and anarchist society

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by ungovernable, May 16, 2010.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    FACT: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations).

    I'm just wondering what everyone on this forum think about owning & buying guns. I always see some "anarchy & peace" anarchists who are strongly against guns. But what about an anarchist society ? How could we prevent peoples from using guns without some sort of anti-gun police that makes perquisition into all houses ?
    Just look at the statistics i posted, it's from 10 years ago so the guns number is probably even higher. There is no way we can get rid of all those guns. There is more guns than cars in america.

    In an anarchist society there is technically no law. But what about the guns licenses ? We can't let peoples buy guns like you buy bubble gun, there has to be some control around it *assuming guns would still be sold in an anarchist society, which is very debatable*

    Some other anarchists believe that owning a gun is a right, of course most of them are americans fanatics of the second amandement.

    What about the extremists and the white supremacists ? Letting them own a gun would be fucking dangerous...

    I'd also be curious to hear what NGNM85 think about that, we will probably have a good laugh.
     

  2. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Should guns still be sold, I would have no problem with people owning small guns such as pistols after getting some training*, age restriction**, and a license***, last thing I want to see are 8 year olds walking around with bazookas.

    If not, then I would suggest a militia based on a rota that would handle all outsider interventions should any opposers exist after the anarchist society has been established.

    Just as those white supremacists would have weapons, everyone else would have weapons, and of course who would give any guns to hate groups in the first place? If they took them by force, then a license needs to be shown for example.


    *Training in order not to shoot yourself with a gun, and possibly some decent exercises, just the essentials.
    **Restriction not as a law, but as in common sense.
    ***Licenses would be handed out after finishing training and meeting the suitable age, that way we could try to put a cap on an influx of weapon users that have no experience, are too young, or whatever.


    Just my opinion on the matter.
     
  3. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I believe in owning weapons and firearms and all that jazz. Let me see you try to take them away from me.

    FACT: Just because you believe in owning guns doesnt make you a crazy gun nut american who jerks-off to the second amendment like ungovernable stated.

    FACT: Guns will always be bought like bubble gum, there are millions of guns in the world and as some rappers say. Its easier to get a GUN than a JOB.

    People need to be able to protect themselves, especially from white supremacist douchebags
     
  4. ILuvEire

    ILuvEireExperienced Member Experienced member


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    As with most things in an anarchist society, I think that the society would control this themselves. The idiots and extremists that would be a danger with guns, well, we just don't let them have any. If they get some, we take them away, that simple :p

    Additionally, I think that with an abolition of private property, we would get rid of personal owning of guns. Although guns aren't a means of production, they are expensive to make, and they're not something you need to get by in day to day life. I'd say that the community have a stock of guns, in the case that they ever needed any, but that individual people wouldn't own guns. What does your average person want a gun for? Protection, of themselves, or their property. If no one has guns except for cases when they'd be needed (I'm thinking for hunting, even if I'd prefer to have a vegan society, but whatevs) then you won't need a gun to protect yourself from people with guns. It solves itself. Then, with an abolition of private property, why would you need a gun to protect that which you don't have? People steal because they need money or specific items, if we eliminate money, there'd be no reason to steal, and therefore you'd have no reason to protect your personal property. If someone needs a bed, they go get one. That simple. No need to take it from someone else.

    I think, during the revolution at least, guns are going to be an incredibly important commodity. All the stuff I said about protection is rendered null and void when you have anti-revolutionaries walking around with guns. Protecting the commune/society/whatever is going to, unfortunately, require some violence. There'd be some form of militia for some time, but eventually it would become useless, and we could slowly get rid of our guns, and just store them somewhere in case of emergency or for times when we needed them for something not protection-related (like hunting, as I said.)
     
  5. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    As Ungovernable pointed out, there are more guns than cars, they cannot be secluded into a storage room, white supremacists would still be able to get their hands on weapons, and if they were secluded into storage rooms then I can predict raids and theft of those guns. I still maintain that a militia must stay, we cannot know when any exiles, opponents, or even a ruler to-be attacks. Guns are needed for defense and security from any who seek to thwart the society.
     
  6. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  7. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Restrictions, licensing, requirements, taking peoples property by force, enforcement of thought crimes.......... What kind of anarchist forum is this? :ecouteurs:
     
  8. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i actually started one before this one.
     
  9. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    you should find it and post it here then :)
     
  10. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I hate guns.every fool can use a gun.i m pacisist and i rearly fight but if comes to that i can defend myself that s for sure.if someone wants to fight use your bare fists not guns,knifes and similar shit.i value my life and every other.i don t wanna end my life because of some fool that s drunk,hearthbroken and carrying a gun so that he can be a macho man or look tough cause his friends are watching him
     
  11. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    This is a pretty ignorant view on guns. There are wayy more accidents involving alcohol and prescription drugs (both which are legal) than gun deaths. Your right, there are douchebags who carry guns and do stupid things with them. But to get rid of guns, what the fuck are you gunna do to protect yourself? You can use your fists, but the states gunna put a bullet in your neck. But you are a pacifist..so are you going to do anything to fight the state? Or its government ?
     
  12. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Me likes weapons. Period.
    I do hope to never use it against another human being tho, if hunting for food I won't actually refrain from using any means necessary to provide me with my dinner :p
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    yeah just noticed there is another thread about guns, but mine was more talking about owning guns in a post-revolutionnary society
     
  14. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It seems like every time i encounter this argument, i have to pull this one out. In Australia, we have relatively strict gun laws. There are only four kinds of people who own guns here, they are: farmers, people who play gun sports (Target shooting etc.), People who own them illegally and law enforcement personnel. There are around 200 murders a year in Australia, and hardly any of them are gun related. There are a whole bunch more statistics that prove that in a society that has few guns, there is little need for guns. Most weapon loving people use the excuse of personal defense. I dont know about you guys, but ive never been mugged, my house has never been broken in to, ive never been threatened with a weapon. I know im just young, but because there are no guns in this country, i believe it is a shit tin safer than a country that has guns. There has never been a school shooting in Australia for example, there have been other incidents involving students with weapons, but never a shooting. Thats gotta count for something.

    On the topic of Gun licences after the revolution, How would you police that? The whole point of an anarchist society is that it is essentially lawless. It is policed by the community, witch runs itself without a total leader. How could the community monitor gun licewncing (especially if the community was a large one) without falling back on the pre-revolutionary days of an oppressive system?
     
  15. j3zrahhh

    j3zrahhhExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i think the philosophy of anarchy is good, but because of factors like these, anarchy or a free society isn't possible. there will always be fuckwits who do stupid things, and if you took away gun laws and said anyone can own a gun without any forms of restrictions (which is what would have to happen for the society to be lawless), it would literally be anarchy, and not in the good sense of a community working together to unify and achieve common goals.

    what are guns good for? killing. that's it. fuck 'em, we don't need them for survival. if we ever do become a post-revolutionary society, i vote we destroy them all, and burn them in the fires of the churches...or sum shit (but once again, anarchy will be the biggest baddest dude with the best gun, because not everyone wants to live in a world free of oppression...and not everyone wants to work together. dirty money hungry conservative bastards).
     
  16. anarho pendrek

    anarho pendrekNew Member New Member


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    I can' t understand why some anarchist talk about law and law shits...
     
  17. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Seriously people, how many times do I have to repeat myself?
    Anarchy: no centralised government
    Anomy: no laws, regulations, rules or social contracts
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Well we can't just let everyone buy a gun like they buy bubble gum, there has to be a control. Even if an anarchist society is lawless, you can't sell a gun to a 10 years old children, or sell a gun to a maniaco-depressive person, or to a fascist, or to a murderer, etc....

    There will not be any laws in an anarchist society, but in anarchist communities there will be community-based social contract that should include gun control..

    Anarchism IS possible, inform yourself. I can make a list of dozens of historical examples where anarchism worked..



    On another note, remember when i said that americans were brainwashed by the second amendement and lived in their own world ?? Well i decided to start the same topic about guns on the french anarchist forum Resistance.tk and i asked the members what they thought of gun control, if they thought that being free of buying guns is part of freedom. All of them definatly disagree with americans, at unanimity. The general conclusions is that what makes the american believe they NEED guns to protect themselves and that having a gun is part of freedom is the government's continuous speech of INSECURITY. The politics of insecurity. And also the guns lobbyists who makes pressure so this climate of insecurity keeps going. The USA is probably the country that plays the most on the insecurity speech, they always talk about terrorism, criminals, drug dealers, murderers, etc... It's all over the TV, all over the news, always in politicians speech, etc.... No wonder where this climate of insecurity comes from.

    It's also funny how the guns defender contradict themselves with opposite arguments. For example, they say that we need guns to protect ourselves from armed assaults. But on the other side, when we critize weapons for being the responsible of murders, they answer that the majority of murders aren't commited with firearms. So why would we need firearms to protect ourselves from murders with firearms if those murders are only a very small percentage ?
     
  19. bgrass

    bgrassExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Gun control through violence is an assumption of ownership over the person who wants to have a gun. Anarchism and owning people don't go together.
     
  20. nodz

    nodzExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I personally don't believe there is a need for guns in any society. Guns are designed for one purpose and one purpose only, killing things (unless of course it is an air rifle or pistol) Is there any need to kill anything?
     
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