Fundamental question

i guess if you steal something then you get something , or do you mean a punishment ????

 

No, then the term "theft" wouldnt be used, unless the asshole that you gave something to in "return" wanted what you took back... what an asshole

 

i think the most bullshit justification of theft is when someone says they need it more than you do.
so is it anarchist to steal your own capital from the gain of others?
not so independent..

 

not trying to be obstinant but why dont you debate this in the thread about what youre talking about, instead of starting this one? is it because im not posting in this one, only people from here? im not trying to fight you. im actually trying to discuss this with you.

 

my friend just posted this at pe, perhaps youd find it interesting:

"I haven't responded in this thread (about pe/ap, downloading etc), cause all I'd say is people should ask the bands permission.

However it's somewhat amusing how old this argument is. Not the one about MP3s, but anarchist stealing from anarchist is.

In 1897 when Peter Kropotkin was exiled in England, he witnessed several comrades stealing goods from one anarchist that ran a store. They felt justified by doing it, saying that those who were best able shoul cover the cost, "To each according to his need." Well he felt so moved by that, to write up a lovely pamphlet condemning their behaviour, called Anarchist Morality or Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution. I had this lovely copy or it, that was published in this adorable pocket sized edition. Ironically enough, it was stolen by some travelling kid visiting Montreal for the Anarchist Bookfair."

 

i dont know

 

also to say that you "get nothing" is untrue, you get music. as someone in a band i spend time almost every day building a network of contacts for touring, writing music/lyrics, rehearsing, maintaining our tour van etc. and thats a lot of work, not "nothing".

 

oh, and i also see you have a pay pal account set up to the upper left there. so you also "get" donations from people to your site, which is here as a forum for uploading/downloading/trading music files of bands like mine.

 

instantlybent, you also have to remember that ungovernable still seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Proudhon's asserion that 'property is theft', despite mine and others attempts to explain it to him some time back.

Don't bother getting caught up in this argument with him, or you'll end up on the receiving end of completely misinterpreted 'facts' and spittle-flecked rants about how Dan is living some kind of champagne lifestyle off of the backs of 'real' punks. For whatever reason, he seems unable to take a level-headed approach to the whole issue - just metioning Dan or PE triggers some kind of brain fart that causes him to lose any sense of reality.

It's getting tedious, kid.

 

fair enough. but the issue IS one that i think CAN be resolved in a way thats positive and undermines the effrorts of the mainstream music industry to boot. even in the past few hours i came on here and posted about it, other people floored ideas that seemed fairly practical to me (for instance, uploaders being responsible for sending an email from said bands along with their upload). its just too bad that it came to this, as, like ive said before, i think this is a cool forum otherwise. oh well.

also i like the expression "spittle-flecked".

 

See what I mean?

 

As it happens, I have read 'What Is Property?', although not in the original French. I read it back when all we had were books too. Simply owning a book or posting Proudhon's works on your website doesn't mean a thing - reading, analysing and understanding the material is what matters. You've failed to do that with 'What Is Property?' in quite a spectacular fashion.

Look, when this all started, I made a polite post pointing out where I thought you were wrong, where I thought Dan was wrong, and where I thought there was common ground.

However, you chose to continue with 'arguments' devoid of reason, intelligence or fact. That's not a particularly clever way to deal with someone who you feel has insulted you.

On the other hand, Dan sent me a polite email discussing the points I made and ended up agreeing with much of what I was saying about sharing music online.

One last thing - WHY ARE YOU RIPPING OFF THE MEMBERS OF AP WITH APPEALS FOR SOFTWARE LICENCE MONEY? DON'T YOU KNOW THERE ARE FREE ALTERNATIVES OUT THERE?

(in case you didn't realise, that last line wasn't serious at all, I was just using the same 'logic' you used when you 'analysed' Dan's hosting costs and his need for a dedicated server)