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feed cattle to cattle

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by punkjoke, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. punkjoke

    punkjokeMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    I just got in touch with the video Mad Cowboy who speaks about a fourth generation farmer who went vegan and spreads the words about it. I learned that euthanasized animals and what's not taken to produce the meat from the cow is actually fed to cows. Take a look at what howard lyman has done. It's worth it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK4_ui_aTb0
     

  2. bigpapa

    bigpapaMember New Member


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    Oct 23, 2009
     
    the meat industry is sick and wrong but i love meat what to do... so i just hunt and raise my own so i know what they are eating. it,s more work than going to the supermarket but i can sleep at night.
     
  3. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 3, 2009
     
    But still by hunting and "raising" your own you are denying a sentient being life. It's not about treatment, its about use. Animals are complex sentient creatures that feel pain and death is death no matter how pretty and "humane" we wrap it up.
     
  4. ampallang

    ampallangActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 12, 2009
     
    Im veagn, but i understand bigpapa. I dont expect everyone to be vegan or vegetarian. But lacking that i think if you can not support the industry including the factory farms, transportation and inhumane conditions... its a step in a better direction.

    Animals are sensitive creatures, but I dont think that soybeans should be imported to greenland.
     
  5. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I actually heard that a lot of primates lose their habitat in Asia because people here want to buy more tofu, thus the local population cuts down forests and shit. This in and of itself seems contradictory to the entire vegan movement to me...
     
  6. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Rathryn, I think you're thinking of palm oil which is in some vegan margarines like Earth Balance. You're right that that's not a good thing to support, but even if some vegans are hypocrites in one respect, it still doesn't make eating meat or dairy okay. Something I see time and time again when people are called out on harmful behavior is that they will try to confuse the issue by saying, "oh, well you're not perfect, so why should anyone expect anything of me?" Of course vegans aren't perfect. But let's bottom line it at this: 50 billion* sentient individuals with needs, wants, desires, thoughts, emotions and families are slaughtered every year for human consumption. This is not nutritionally necessary and we all have the ability to abstain from it, even if it's significantly harder for some of us than others.

    Also, eating vegan and eating local are not exclusive choices. Even in gross-ass Philadelphia where I live, you can still find farmers' markets on the weekend.

    *http://www.upc-online.org/slaughter/92704stats.htm This figure does not reflect sea creatures ensnared in industrial drift nets. An estimated 100,000 tons of fish are ripped from the oceans every year.
     
  7. bletheringvegan

    bletheringveganExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 3, 2009
     
    Most soy products that are made for the vegan market are "organic" so I don't think they contribute to deforestation. It's the soy that's used in McDonalds and other fast food places burgers that is the culprit.

    But yeah, palm oil is bad, didn't realise it was in Earth Balance though - going to have to go check my tub now. Thanks for the heads up!

    But carcass has hit the nail on the head - it's impossible to not be a hypocrite as a vegan in an inhertently speciesist society. But just because you can't be 100% "pure", doesn't mean that it excuses the mass slaughter of 50+ billion sentient non-humans every year for our greed.
     
  8. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    I wasn't trying to point fingers, I'm just blunt, is all.
    As for going vegan or vegetarian, I know I can do it quite easily, but as usual I'm stubborn and don't want to o_O
     
  9. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Yeah, I didn't really mean to go off at you, I was just trying to talk about conversations I've had in the past.

    Quit being stubborn! You can be stubborn when no one's life is at stake.
     
  10. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 18, 2009
    Male, 41 years old
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    very true, as I believe a vegan wouldn't be able to drive or even ride a bike, because the tires have whale fat (?)in them.
     
  11. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Ha ha, not quite. Some tires contain stearic acid, which can be animal derived. A quick googling revealed [urhttp://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19090]this thread[/url] and the follow up on a vegan fitness forum. They list brands of bike and car tires that get their stearic acid from non-animal sources.
     
  12. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    The destruction of the rainforest due to a vegan diet is very, very slim compared to other things. Palm oil is mostly used as a replacement for gasoline, and yes it is in some vegan margarine. However, when comparing the amount of forest destroyed for the raising of animals, the number destroyed for just human food is incomparable, not to mention intensive animal agriculture also damages the soil to the point where it is uninhabitable. Most soy produced goes to animal feed.

    On this note, rice products are much better than soy products, because there's alot less (though it's not pure of) slave labor used in their production. Plus, soy is high in estrogen (you'll get tits and acne :D ).
     
  13. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    haha it's funny you mention that because my whole family is consistent of vegetarians (rarely consuming dairy) and some woman at my moms workplace yelled at my mom because she was feeding my little sister soy milk and it supposedly can cause early puberty or breast cancer. Needless to say, we now drink rice milk :p
     
  14. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    I thought palm oil was mostly used in cookies/chocolates. Nestle being a huge palm oil consumer.

    Also, euthanized animals from a lot shelters go into many low grade brands of dog and cat foods, too.
    I didn't know cows ate any foods with meat in them... considering they are herbivores and eat grass/hays/grains... (OP, I didn't watch the video, but that seems like a far fetched statement, I'll watch it when I get a chance, sorry if I'm completely wrong.)
     
  15. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    Ah now that I remember, mad cow disease is from cannibalism, so I guess I'm wrong. Oops.
    I'm still trying to figure out how the cows digest the meat properly, though. Hmm. Off to google the cow digestive system.
     
  16. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 9, 2009
     
    That is pure ignorance and lack of education at it's best, and I would suspect a good deal of meat industry propaganda. There is no estrogen is soy. Glycine max contains compounds that is structurally similar to estrogen but are about a 1000 times less likely to connect to estrogen receptors, and unless you are eating really huge amounts nothing will happen.
     
  17. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Cool story, bro, care to back that up with some sources?

    Besides, rice milk is fucking delicious, when did you become the soy nazi?
     
  18. DrunkSquid

    DrunkSquidExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 11, 2009
     
    I am opposed to the meat industry because of how they treat the animals. I do not believe "meat is murder" per se.
    However I do believe that people do not need meat in a developed country or society where someone like me can simply replace a great percentage of their protein needs with peanut and soy products, ect.
    I am appalled at how the general public views animal rights and how they view the treatment and usage of the animals.
     
  19. oibobbo

    oibobboActive Member Forum Member


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    Jan 15, 2010
     
    meat is murder.
    you have to kill to get it..
    i have killed plenty of chickens when i was younger.it's not an enjoyable thing to do but if you want meat you have to.
    i think it'd be better if people bred their own animals because there'd be a lot less..
    if you own a pig ,you don't need to kill more than one a year for a four person family(you get about 250 kg of meat off a pig)that's a lot to eat!
    whereas the way the system is geared they kill tons of pigs ,and because people only buy separate bits they end up with a lot of waste,because certain bits sell better than others.
    (like bisons being killed for their tongues)
    i suppose they try and make reconstituted rubbish out of the rest...
    pigs can be fed on household waste
    rather than having to deforest everything and plant grain to feed them.
    ( i think the reason some religions forbid people to eat pork is because at the time those religions emerged pigs would live in the street and eat anything they would find
    human shit,dead dogs etc...,they probably used to be full of parasites hence making them unhealthy to eat
    i bet you'd find that people would grow attached to their pigs and not have the heart to kill them in the end anyway :lmao:
    i can rarely afford meat so i'm a part time veggy i suppose...
     
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