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Communism and Anarchism and historical revolutions

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by commandersideburns, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. commandersideburns

    commandersideburnsNew Member New Member


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    Dec 9, 2010
     
    Why is it that anarchism and communism seem like great political alternatives, and good topics for vital punk, in capitalist western countries, but seem like propaganda when played by bands from countries that are currently communist?

    In other words, how do we square anarchism or communism with the violence and suffering caused by revolutions in China, Cuba, and elsewhere? How do we play ethical and non-naive music knowing the bloody history of these revolutions?
     

  2. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 7, 2010
     
    i don't see communism, or any form of it, as a political alternative. power is power and all power is corrupt. in fact, i see no difference between communism and capitalsim other than the means in which they utilize or gain power. both use violence to achieve their goals, and both are fucked up systems. i know i'll more than likely receive disagreement on this, but whatever it's my opinion.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Name me 5 anarcho bands from Cuba, China and North Korea ....combined.
     
  4. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    ^^^

    I second this, out of pure interest. I'm sure we can muster a couple up.
     
  5. commandersideburns

    commandersideburnsNew Member New Member


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    Dec 9, 2010
     
    I was motivated to post my question after listening to Gum Bleed. They have songs about the workers' revolution and similar themes. But my experience talking to people who lived through the cultural revolution in China is that it was a terrible and horrifying time.
    Maybe that points to the first response in this thread. Power is power, and when wielded over people brings pain and suffering. But that makes me skeptical of bands that would celebrate the anti-capital revolutions which ultimately substituted one form of power (better still, "power over") for another.
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    My question to you is what does any of that have to do with Anarchism? You sort of lumped them together in a way that isn't right or fair. Authoritarian Communism =/= Anarchism.
     
  7. DutchZapatista

    DutchZapatistaMember New Member


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    Dec 6, 2010
     
    The problem of the Cuban, French, Chinese, Russian and Korean revolutions is not that they were revolutionary - but their faillures do prove anarchist criticism is correct.

    Before Lenin, or Mao, or Fidel Castro were ever born - Mikhail Bakunin was clever enough to point out that Marx' ''theories'' would ultimately lead to a new tyranny.

    And that is exactly what happens when a revolution becomes corrupted by taking power. A revolution aimed at taking power, requires a vanguardist movement that claims to have the right to seize power, by force if necessary. In Russia, Lenin claimed the working class was too stupid to organize itself for a revolutionary power takeover - so the working class needed a party of intellectuals to lead them. Lenin justified the establishment of a single-party dictatorship. Automatically, as many others on the left warned Lenin for (i.e. Rosa Luxemburg, Bakunin etc.), the Russian revolution became a tool for the new bureaucratic elite to use force against any opposition - claiming the opposition was counterrevolutionary.

    Of course, we know the Makhnovists, the Kronstadt rebels and all those other revolutionary groups were obviously opposed to Bolshevism, but they were far from counterrevolutionary.

    The revolution automatically will eat itself, when it takes power. This is why I am an anarchist, this is why I reject communism, and this is why I secretly think of Marx as a blind fool.
     
  8. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    I think what he's trying to say is that it's hard to give credibility to bands with messages in certain countries where the uninformed "understanding" of said message is that it already failed, thus not gaining much support in whichever certain country?
     
  9. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Code:
    Why is it that anarchism and communism seem like great political alternatives, and good topics for vital punk, in capitalist western countries, but seem like propaganda when played by bands from countries that are currently communist?
    
    In other words, how do we square anarchism or communism with the violence and suffering caused by revolutions in China, Cuba, and elsewhere? How do we play ethical and non-naive music knowing the bloody history of these revolutions?
    China and Cuba aren't Communist or Anarchist states. They're Authoritarian State-capitalist states. As for musical propaganda, there's hardly any Musical scene in Cuba that isn't repressed and China is pretty similar. If there are bands with a pro government sentiment in these countries, they certainly can't be classed as Communist or Anarchist bands.
     
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