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What Has Anarcho-Punk Got To Do With Anarchism?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by back2front, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. back2front

    back2frontExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Or maybe I might ask - is there anything really revolutionary about anarcho-punk? I mean does going to gigs and buying records and T-shirts create a revolutionary culture? Or does it simply create an escapist counter-culture which challenges nothing and is ultimately as safe as houses? Sure, the music is a soundtrack and a groovy one too but that's all really, isn't it?
     

  2. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    Not particularly. At best, it can create some space for a sub-community that actually cares about politics to form within the larger community of anarcho-punks who mostly just want to play dress up.

    I don't know about escapist, but I've never heard of an anarcho-punk scene where even a slim majority was involved in radical activism. I'd love to be proven wrong.

    All of this is fine as long as we're not deluding ourselves about what we're actually doing. People will listen to the music they like and dress the way that makes them feel like they have an identity. I enjoy Disfear and wearing tight pants, but that's not what makes me an anarchist.
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    it's not about making a punk movement inside anarchism, it's about taking the most radical part of the punk scene to politize them and get them into anarchism activist instead of drinking beer and going to shows yelling "capitalism sucks".

    In other words, making punks become anarchists and not making anarchists become punks.

    It is also an excellent propaganda tool, an anarcho-punk band with good lyrics is as efficient as a documentary or a good text. Peoples also get attached to it easier since you can sing it and remember the lyrics unlike a long book.

    A lots of kid gets in the whole rebellion because of the punk scene, but they have great potential at becoming anarchists.

    I discovered anarchism and politized myself in most part because of the anarchopunk scene so....
     
  4. statuliber

    statuliberExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 13, 2009
     
    hmm... actually i object to the idea of seeing Anarcho-punk as just another propaganda shit trying to get people into something...

    its a culture... or maybe an anti-culture, whatever, its building a collectivist feeling, a collective
    and like camues says, the revolt makes people leave their individual lostness and build a revolutionary collective...
     
  5. dwtcos

    dwtcosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 22, 2009
     
    Sometimes I feel like anarcho-punks (no one on this site) are anarchists simply for the sake of rebellion and would rather just be against the current state of society then work towards a better one. Just some thoughts...
     
  6. David-N

    David-NActive Member Forum Member


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    I see anarcho-punk as a great way of spreading the idea of anarchism. Since punk is a music genre and music is a universall language independet of race, coutry, age, ... makes it the ultimate tool that comes along with an one-of-a-kind idea: the idea of anarchism.

    It dosen't get better than good music combined with powerful lyrics! :thumbsup:

    Other than that, ungovernable made a good point.
     
  7. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    Anarcho punk bands all have agendas. Listen to "Evolution" by the Subhumans. They're trying to get you to feel the same way they do about animal testing. "Arise" by Amebix tries to convince you that Christianity should be opposed.
    If it's trying to change your views, its propaganda. That said, not all propaganda is bad.
     
  8. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i was an anarchist before i got into the "scene" or at least i was becoming one and believed in it wants i found the music and learned what it stood for i had found what i was looking for

    but you do have a point i mean i try and make it to rally's tho we dont have many around hear or so it seems that way maybe im looking in the wrong areas
     
  9. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    i dont see the problem with the music being a motivational tool. at keast it should make you think, which is more then most regular music will do.
     
  10. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    if you got money sure go and buy T-shirts or anything that your money can buy,but if you think that this Anarcho-punk is just a dream you could go and buy gun with your money and ask yourself one thing do I deserve to live?if you don t belive it than hate it
     
  11. we're_all_dead_anyway

    we're_all_dead_anywayActive Member Forum Member


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    If It wasn't for anarcho-punk then I probably wouldn't be an anarchist now. It's what really introduced me to anarchism and got me thinking about the world in an entirely different way. So it's a great tool for introducing people to anarchism and anarchist ideas and get them thinking.
     
  12. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    whats anarchy got to do with people
     
  13. back2front

    back2frontExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 26, 2009
     
    Yes I'd agree that it can get people to think, that it provides a soundtrack and that it is a possible gateway towards anarchism, but how many anarcho-punks are actually active beyond the scene culture of going to gigs and buying records etc, that is to say, how many have gotten beyond making lifestyle choices which have little if any cultural effect apart from providing another niche market?

    Certainly not trying to put anyone down here; the question is asked out of genuine curiosity and is concerned with the differences between lifestyle anarchism and revolutionary anarchism. Making a choice to wear different clothes, listen to different music, not to buy certain products etc etc is simply subculturalism where those involved adhere to choices which remain safely within the capitalist dynamic.

    Revolutionary ideas are many and varied but the majority of revolutionary anarchists tend to adhere to anarchist-communism and anarcho-syndicalism. This tends to involve agitation in the workplace to force industrial action and the general strike. These were the main tactics used in the revolutions in Russia and Spain, for example. It wasn't about improving conditions for people, it was about a complete re-imagining of society. By taking control of the workplace and structuring production according to need, libertarian communism could be introduced and the socialization of society would take place. Because several historical examples of this have occurred it is still widely considered as the central focus of revolutionary anarchism.

    The other main idea of revolutionary anarchism is State confrontation on the streets but many believe this is useless without the general strike. A crowd going up against a heavily-armed and well-trained battalion of cops are inevitably going to be crushed resulting in death, arrest and bad propaganda with the cops demanding (and subsequently getting) more power to combat street protest, resulting in the steady erosion of human rights. Even large-scale confrontations such as Hungary in 1956, Paris in 1968 or Seattle 1999 reveal the same pattern. I'm certainly not saying it should be avoided, quite the opposite, but I do question it continually as an independent tactic.

    So where does anarcho-punk fit into any of this? It seems that the lifestyle approach has zero to do with revolutionary anarchism, generally speaking; in fact could it be said that lifestylism actually benefits the state through it's lack of revolutionary potential? I do realise this is very general, but as I said it's a genune question.
     
  14. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    it is part of but not whole, we have learnt and times have changed, i'm a punk and i dislike hanging with sum anacrhos as i'm a punk who likes 'punk' music and they gen r not etc no hard feeligns if ya civil about it, such is life - ned kelly

    not questions, more statements that i gen agree with, well dressups r not anarcho eh but they're sympathisers, u wil be amazed who takes part, protests are also part of

    many don't read or understand is why or have so much mistrust they don't much bother, as they see it as 'old', so is the wheel; but it does allude you can suit to situations U find yaself in, its able to be staunch while being free and good ideas r often coopted, who doesn't like eating apples off the tree but ya still gotta let the seed drop

    u r asking, wat shud we do about it, sick of these convos as theres many already here, i believe we need a 'a party' in sum parts, to gain more sympathisers other than teenagers or old hats in the ghetto as i have stated mannny times, its rather natural and if ya not showing goodwill amongst everyday people who may agree with you but may not trust you then...(who r u in it 4) also ya not heard specially if ya find a status quo that doesn't champion freedom of media which is a human societal construct like many good or bad things not just business, they just tend to want to own everything and tell not help without cost, like people: slaves, they treated gladiators well too
     
  15. back2front

    back2frontExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I have no idea what most of your post means???

    However your suggestion that we need a 'party' is beneath my contempt. Don't take it personally, but the whole history of party politics is one of keeping ordinary people down. It comes with the territory. Power corrupts. You are simply advertising the same old liberal Marxist game of top-down beaurocracy. It's very dishonest and has nothing to do with anarchism. Anarchism wants an end to ALL parties and ALL party politics. If you say we need a party, then you are NOT an anarchist. Go read about Angel Pestana and the CNT for example and you'll see what happens when anarchists flirt with party politics.

    If thats not what you mean, then I apologise, but you'll need to make the effort to make yourself clearer otherwise you will be misinterpretted or people won't understand you.
     
  16. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    no thats why i put it like it in like, 'this', i just think its far to narcissistic and by partisan to hit ya brick against a wall, i dodn't see it as one way or the other except of course stateism
     
  17. LucidStrike

    LucidStrikeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    This was strange. You speak of the anarcho-punk scene like something completely separate from contemporary anarchist culture, when it seems the opposite is often true in my experience. Almost seems elitist. That said, I'm not all that enamored in the punk scene. I meet people in the course of organizing and we go to or put on shows sometimes. I don't know anyone off the top of my head that's a anarcho-punk poser. We're just anarchists many (not all) of whom like punk including anarcho-punk. =/

    I was an anarchist before I was a punk. Just wanted music to relate to and found Crass. The rest was history. Nothin' wrong with that.

    This seems relevant:

    "A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me." ~ Pat the Bunny
     
  18. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 19, 2010
     
    Escapism was more disco - trying to pretend all is good while it isn't.

    We can't define us self 100% on what we are against, we have to define us self on some of what we like to create unity. And we like music, we like creative non-commercial clothing, with some aspects in common, because we do have some unity in the end.

    A progressive, alternative and exciting culture is way better at convincing people, that we can do better than the capitalistic system, and to attract people, to learn about the good alternatives.
     
  19. LucidStrike

    LucidStrikeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I get what you mean, but actual radical community organizing is the key to that, not punk. "A punk rock song won't ever change the world"
     
  20. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Lucidstrike:
    Oh well, as Conflict once said it "Punk rock won't change anything - Punks with rocks will"

    Though, i'd say that there's a time and place to fight, but i would prefer to create a strong scene, that can get important ideas out to the public. A better alternative.
    But you're probably right about punk, people don't listen to punks - they don't realise that there may be a reason why they are against
     
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