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What Does Antifa Mean To You?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by 1xAntifa, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Simple question.
    My answer is basically

    - to disrupt white nationalist/supremacist rallies whenever the grubs walk our streets.

    - provide backup to community rallies that attract the grubs i,e, anti racism, pride marches, environmental, peace etc

    through peaceful means, but with a readiness to punch on if the fascists start violence.

    I don't vote for racists, buy anything from businesses who support fascist policies i.e. amazon, paypal, or who employ racists [that means no tatts from local tatt artists],invest my super in companies that deal with Israel for example or deal in weapons technology, use social media that harbours hate speech like fuckbook, buy records from bands with dodgy politics [this means you nick cave et-al] or books written by right wingers.


    Why? because our government in oz has normalised the anti immigrant, Islamophobic, racist horseshit of the extreme right and cops by definition support the state and it's racist policies ACAB

    I do troll racist trolls when the opportunity presents itself [ RT is a happy hunting ground for that.]

    What are your thoughts?
     

  2. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    These are all fine and well, but, I keep coming back to the Crass song White Punks on Hope.
    I find the best way to fight racism and ignorance is through EDUCATION.

    It's only the first step but it' a BIG, POWERFUL, and EFFECTIVE first step.

    At least, that's been my own personal experience.
     
  3. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Thanks for responding. Apologies for not replying sooner, I had to think about this.

    In a one on one rational, factual conversation I would agree and have done so. The situation I was thinking of is that of the howling mob in a public place.

    From experience, there can be no personal engagement in those situations. Add to that the mainstreaming of racist, particularly Islamophobic. rhetoric by conservative governments and the dire state of left wing/progressive parties, there is little scope for educational pushback in public spaces. It often/always comes down to numbers and organised chanting. One major problem is how to separate the hanger on from the hardcore leadership. If you can get a hanger on on their tod, then you might be able to turn them around. The hardcore will never be swayed though. Here in oz, they are actively organising "normies" into an ostensible gym/boxing club so as to slowly induct these disaffected people into the racist, supremacist worldview.

    Thinking about it, that's something we could do, with classes in self defence, first aid if you're subjected to pepper spray or tear gas thanks to the cops, the anti racist message, organising a demo, training wardens in various functions like cop watching and crowd control for example. Organising in itself can be dangerous. Our local mosque was vandalised, so a meeting of stakeholders and supporters was set up by myself and the local trades hall rep. It was attended by the Imam, a couple of local churches [who deal with refugees], political parties [Greens, Labor and Socialists], anti racists like myself and union reps. It was held at the local trades hall with around 30 all told attending. Trouble was that the local fascist contingent [around 100 of them] got a whiff of the meeting. thanks to the local rag and they congregated in the car park screaming racist hate speech and looking for a fight. We were not allowed out of the building until the cops cleared the car park and road, escorting those who needed it safely to their cars.

    Information stalls at demo's could also be useful, but if you only reach the already converted, what's the point? Such a stall on the racist side wouldn't last long, and the cops would view it as a provocation, given how they separate the two sides as standard procedure. A bizarre thought thinking about the imbroglio in Honkers - leaflet bomb them via catapault. cops would just love that one, not.

    I guess my point is that the fash are currently far more organised here than we are at the moment. There is no broadbased anti fascist resistance here. We are silo-ed within our own concerns, be they political, environmental, LGBQTI, refugee, economic social justice and anti racist. And it shows with the re-election of an extremely conservative, Islamophobic,authoritarian, bible bashing government here. We have our own version of Trump and Johnson telling us that if we only prayed more, life would be easier.

    So yes education matters, but in the current political climate it is like pushing shit uphill. I fear things are only going to get worse before the aussie battler comes to their collective senses and sees who our oppressors actually are.
     
  4. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I see your point and agree on many levels.
    First off, when you're at a demo, and counter protesters show up looking for trouble, and usually starting it, one must do what they can to protect themselves, and possibly their friends and family if possible.

    You're right, the hardcore will never be swayed, but don't forget that the other side are saying the same thing about US as well. They, too, are looking for the hangers on to find common ground with to sway them to their side.

    If they are organizing events and places to go to indoctrinate the ignorant and uneducated, then then people have to pool their resources together to attract the youth to sway them away. Maybe one doesn't have enough money to set up a boxing ring, or start a gymnasium, but maybe one can raise enough funds to start a youth center of some sort to get kids off the street, give them activities, and, most importantly let them participate in the decision making process. One will always be swayed when felt included, that they belong, that they can participate in making decision,s and most importantly, that their voices are heard.

    No matter where you go, it's been my personal experience that the "Fash" are not as organized as one might think. Always remember there is ALWAYS infighting, jealousy and rivalry on both the left AND the right. Now, I don't live in Australia, so I don't know how things work exactly over by your way, but in the U.S. there is so much infighting as far as the far right is concerned. I live next door to a state where there are TWO chapters of the Ku Klux Klan, and they are both fighting like cats and dogs, and have done so for decades on end. Each chapter claims to be the OFFICIAL state chapter of the KKK, and when on chapter sets up a rally, the other chapter comes to that rally to disrupt it. I'm convinced it's like this all over the world. I've seen this type of division with the left all my life, so it should come as no surprise that the same conditions should besiege the far right as well.

    Remember that each side is watching the other, to look for the weakest link. Stay vigilant, because they're watching us just as closely as we are watching them
     
  5. Charger Bullet

    Charger BulletActive Member Forum Member


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    Feb 9, 2018
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    Texas, United States United States
    My biggest issue with the decentralized movement, Anti-Fascist, is the nomenclature they use themselves. I think it is a mistake to label themselves as "Antifa" and fascists groups as "Fash". These terms are hollow and have no meaning to people outside of the movement and subsequently redefined by the enemy. We here all know that "antifa" is short for 'anti-fascist' but the mainstream does not. It confuses me why they would do that, especially in these current times where people make a big stink of using the politically-correct terminology for all ostracized or disenfranchised groups of people. It is just one syllable short of calling themselves "Anti-Fascist'" instead of "antifa". Do people really need a refresher on Orwell's "1984" where the state chopped and butchered words and terms to render them meaningless and subsequently use it as mind control of the population?

    Don't kid yourself, the right-wing have used the silly term "antifa" to their advantage. Most notably is their trolling wherein they write "antifa is fascist". Somehow them writing out "antifascist is fascist" would be met with ridicule for the double-speak that it is. Yeah, they do this to all other groups and movements as well, but why make it easier for them?

    And if it is a spelling issue, then maybe they should call themselves 'Anti-Nazi'. Instead of using the insignia of the red and black flags it would probably be beneficial to just use the swastika with the crossed out symbol overlaid on top of it (made famous by the song "Nazi Punks Fuck Off"). Then maybe you wouldn't have the alt-right and the corporate media defining it for you towards others. The reason I say this is because a few years ago I was one of the ones looking into what this "antifa" group was all about that was being mentioned in the news.

    It is a branding issue.
     
  6. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia

    You make some good points here. I heartily concur that outreach and inclusion are vital to the struggle. The way I see it is that a united front of many different stakeholders is required. We need to be able to draw in not only anti-racist activists, persecuted minorities whether that be on racial or religious grounds, LGBQTI, trades unionists, sex workers, the disabled, mentally ill, so called asocials et-al [the usual and historical targets of nazi's] but also the run of the mill people concerned with defending democracy as such. People don't tend to realise that the nazi utopia is a threat to the vast majority, and this links back towards your original point about education.

    I also take your point on inter group rivalry. Here the left is splintered into at least six different factions with two socialist, a communist one, anarchists and two political parties namely the Greens and the Labor party. The question is how to get them onboard on just the issue of anti-fascism. The socialists and anarchists in Victoria have cooperated in organising anti-racists actions but their reach is limited. The Labor party doesn't see a threat and buys into the Islamophobic, anti-refugee agenda of the government. Indeed they were the instigators of mandatory detention of asylum seekers back in the 90's. There's no easy answer and a lot of hard yards involved here.

    Our right wing extremism is far more concentrated. The main purveyors of the face of "acceptable" racism is our Liberal party, who are arch conservatives similar to your Republicans. They mainstreamed Islamophobic, anti-immigrant/asylum seeker rhetoric under the guise of national security threats. They are also ramping up anti-Chinese paranoia as well. They see climate change protesters as terrorists and are clamping down on dissent generally. The next step rightward is One Nation. This is where the more extreme xenophobes, homophobes and gun nuts go. Their leader read out an "it's okay to be white" manifesto in the senate. That kinda sums them up.

    The extreme right has splintered on several occasions to date deciding on who wants to be fuhrer but its always the usual gang of idiots involved in what are essentially re-branding exercises. It's this mob of grubs who are the main problem. They're the ones organising gyms/fight clubs and are attempting to infiltrate the major political parties. They're the howling mob I spoke about. One of them is currently on trial for terrorism offences. He was planning to blow up a couple of buildings and massacre lefties with knives. He claims he was joking and his words and actions were merely satire. The Christchurch shooter also had links with this mob.

    The essential go to resource on rightwing extremism in oz is
    https://slackbastard.anarchobase.com
     
  7. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Points taken. Yes it would help to explicitly state anti-fascist/nazi/racist rather than the Antifa shorthand in the wider community. I myself use the anti-racist tag in broad based forums that I've attended. People are far more understanding of that than anti-fascist which tends to confuse [fascism,what fascism?], or Antifa which is downright confrontational to many. [thanks to the right-wing talking points you mentioned]

    As far as the symbols go, the two flags version is I believe anarchist anti-fascism, the three arrows in a circle is social democratic anti-fascism revived from the Wiemar Republic and the crossed out swastika. In my view they're all interchangeable but for the sake of clarity in a united front approach, which I favour, a single symbol is essential. So getting the different interest groups past their collective institutional ego's [with their own historical baggage] is the key here.

    Thanks for your input, it's making me think these things through.
     
  8. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    A lot of things you point out are happening here in the U.S. and the Oompa Loompa is ginning up his followers. There's plenty of anti-immigration sentiment in the air, and people seeking asylum are assumed to be terrorists. People from south of the U.S. border are being demonized and all fall under the label "Mexican" although many are from places even further south, and we are hypnotized by bright shiny objects so we don't study the histories of these countries and the struggle of the people against corrupt puppet governments set up by the U.S. before many of us were even born.

    I can't help but think that the REAL criminals are going to come in through CANADA and their going to come from formerly "Communist" countries in Eastern Europe, and this will happen because they are WHITE, and everybody in the U.S. will mistake any brown skinned Spanish speaking citizen either as an illegal immigrant, a gang member or both. (Oh, they CAN'T be bad people. They're WHITE. Have sympathy, they lived under the jack boot of COMMUNISM)

    While what I say has a kernel of truth in it, it is also equally dangerous because, once again innocent people are being scapegoated, but it COULD happen that way on many levels if one doesn't stay vigilant. (And everybody seems to forget about AIR PLANES. That's how we spell in in the U.S. If I spell it aeroplane, auto correct spell check starts yelling at me. That's the U.S. internet for ya)

    And I'm sure the news has gotten far enough to Australia that the people there are aware that we've had our fair share of church massacres where the shooter started reading some sort of manifesto before killing innocent people.

    Other than the fact the we have an Oompa Loompa with a bad hair weave for Presidetn, and you have Koalas, Kangaroos, and those cute little freaks of nature called Platypi, the situation is quite parallel.

    And thinks for the link. Slackbastard is always an interesting read.
     
  9. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Our demonisation of asylum seekers began in 1991 when the then Labor government decided to implement mandatory detention in camps located in isolated areas. The targets were mainly Iraqi's fleeing the Gulf War, which we participated in. It really ramped up post 9/11 with the then Liberal government winning an election on the basis of we decide who comes into our country, regardless of what international law says and our treaty obligations. Since then, a Labour government stated that anyone who arrives by boat will never settle in oz and were shipped off to camps on Manus Island PNG and Nauru. This so called Pacific Solution saw oz outsource its responsibilities to its poorer Pacific neighbours.Now they're screaming about people who arrive via air. The bottom line is that they don't want refugees period. Australia's hardline policies have been used as the new benchmark for anti-immigration/asylum policies globally. To me its been a 30 year crime against humanity.

    We also have the asylum seeker = terrorist nexus. What gets forgotten in all this is our active involvement in America's wars, Iraq 1990-2007, Afghanistan 2001-date, Syria, naval patrols off the Gulf of Hormuz and freedom of navigation sabre rattling in the South China Sea. We're also spending 100's of billion $ on american weapons whilst our social fabric for things like health, education and welfare are being gutted. Our police have become militarised beyond recognition since 9/11 as well. Given the similarities between what is happening in oz, the us, uk and canada, I think they're using the same playbook.

    One troubling trend we had at the last federal election was that former eastern bloc and mediteranian refugees were voting One Nation because they couldn't deal with same sex marriage or Muslims coming into the country.

    Personally, I put a lot of this cross fertilisation down to the internet and corporate scum like fuckbook allowing hate speech on their platforms. I've lived through Anti East European/Mediterranean, Anti Asian and now anti Muslim/ African / Chinese hysteria and its racist expressions and its the same old shit getting trotted out each time. The neo-nazi and white supremacist grubs were involved every time, Its only gotten worse with the internet, conservatives picking up on far right ideas in grotty vote grabbing exercises and mainstream "left" parties not wanting to appear weak on security issues.

    We have our own oompa loompa. He is conciously aping your one. He thinks that if only we prayed more our lives would be better, nevermind the wealth gap, rising inequality, underfunded services etc. He even prayed for rain to break the drought whilst continuing to deny climate change. A real shit of fools.
     
  10. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Doesn't seem to end does it?
    I still remember after 9/11 how anybody who looked like they were from the Middle East was detained w/o provocation. We restarted a war with Iraq under the guise of "Stopping terrorism" even though the international intelligence community had told King George Bush the Second that Hussain had no so called weapons of mass destruction, nor was he intending to build any. Now we seem to have our sites set on Iran, even though they have no nuclear weapons, nor do they intend to build any. How do I know this? Considering all the natural disasters that has besieged Iran, like earthquakes and mud slides, Iran doesn't have three trillion dollars to spend to build even ONE nuclear missile. (That's how much it costs to build one in U.S. dollars) Plus, since Iran is a theocracy, and an Islamic on at that, those kind of decisions would be made by the Imams and they have not indicated any interest in using that kind of money to build such devices.

    Xenophobia seems to run rampant internationally.
     
  11. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    It certainly does in the West. Unfortunately very few have a sense of history these days or can be bothered to read books that would dispel the mis-information and outright lies that are being peddled by politicians, intelligence services and the MSM. I grew up reading Chomsky beginning with At War with Asia in my late teens. He gave me a healthy scepticism towards any governments official pronouncements on foreign policy. Subsequently I've read broadly and deeply from that foundation and I know that information is out there if people could be bothered. Unfortunately it appears that most people are only concerned with their own tribal survival. There has been a conscious dumbing down of education and the battle to survive economically under neo-liberalism means few have the headspace to care about the many ways that they are being manipulated by those with power.

    They're just aching to take out Iran, it's only the fact that the US is overstretched militarily that they haven't done so to date. I suspect that once they finish peace talks in Afghanistan and finalise the Syrian mess, they'll hit Iran.I suspect that the real reason that they're trying to impeach the great orange one this late in his term is his failure to follow the diktats of the national security apparatus to the letter. They couldn't give a shit about his corruption and mismanagement o home affairs but are livid at his not confronting Russia and bombing Syria and Iran back to the stone age.
     
  12. anarchodyke

    anarchodykeMember Forum Member

    to me antifa is a set of principles, centered around organized opposition to bigotry, things like doxing nazis and getting them fired, doing security for lgbt events, and disrupting fascist organizing where possible, through direct action, but also through things like calling venues to prevent them from hosting nazis, flyering nazis neighborhoods, and educating people on how to prevent nazis from getting into their communities
     
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  13. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Agree with what you've said. Don't forget the anti capitalist angle as well as the oligarchs are notoriously fascist and racist in their beliefs. Why give $ to corporations that oppress us? Both my kids are LGBQTI so I get your focus there. Thanks for contributing to this thread.
     
  14. anarchodyke

    anarchodykeMember Forum Member

    yeah for sure, tbh i kinda just thought it was implied cause we're on a left anarchist forum
     
  15. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    EDUCATION is the REAL first step.
     
  16. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    you're right. Sometimes I'm a bit slow. LOL
     
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9 members have read this thread this month

  1. 1xAntifa
  2. punkmar77
  3. The Hat
  4. R-EVOLUTIONPUNK
  5. aint ashamed
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  7. Red Menace
  8. CULTO DEL CARGO
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