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What about Hardcore?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by Kobac, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dude how the FUCK is a song like Pay to Cum NOT HARDCORE (All fucking CAPITALS)
    Have you ever heard the 1978 Bad Brains demo?
    Attitude alone DEFINES Hardcore.
    While the clash was recording London Calling, the Bad Brains were playing so fast it pre-dated and subsequently INVENTED Grindcore, (Along with New Jerseys Cyanamid and Japans GAUZE)

    I read a hell of alot more than you do, and have been into this way longer than you have.

    Do you know who Chronic Sick is?
    Do you know Who Fatal Rage is?
    Do you know who DIRGE is?
    Do you know who the WORST is?
    Do you know who The Beast is?
    Do you know who The Secret Syde is?
    How about Public Disturbance?

    You know that book you read called "American Hardcore"?

    Look up the chapter talking about New Jerseys scene back in the early 80s, see the part about the Brighton Bar, the Fast lane, and all the other spots.
    Ive lived in the town where that scene started my entire life.
    Said Bands above lay waste to anything your trying to talk about as being "hardcore", I bet you dont even know who the fuck VILE is Captain hardcore history USA A #1 DUKE OF THE HISTORY OF PUNK!

    I say Hardcore, is the same no matter what stupid fucking Capital letter-ISM you decide to try and be some fucking prophet about.
    Drawing lines in the sand around what is and isnt hardcore is as stupid as believing in god.
    Its either good or it sucks.
    Now Please....
    SHUT.
    THE.
    FUCK.
    UP.
     
  2. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    P.S. Your the kinda person who wouldve gotten your teeth handed to you at a hardcore show back then.
     
  3. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    P.P.S. Plagarism is illegal, and frowned upon.
    Stop paraphrasing whatever skewed books your reading.
    You are not as smart as you try to seem.
     
  4. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hey Cocytus...I think you and I need to have a huge talk about music...cause this is all new too me...I guess I'm a noob or whatever.

    And is Ian MacKaye really a cokehead??
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    "... straight edge, hardcore, this core, that core, too many dividing lines" - citizen fish

    It's all rock n roll to me.
     
  6. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    can we talk about poison idea now, germs never sed bad brains aren't hardcore he denoted some lineage and whos going home in an ambulance, 'not me' ahaha

    oh Lame part 3, oh no, a sequels sequel
     
  7. punkjoke

    punkjokeMember Forum Member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    where does that leave you? where does that leave me?
     
  8. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well, according to Darryl Jenifer Bad Brains was a punk band, primarily influenced by the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, and the Dead Boys. (See his interview in the "Punk: Attitude" documentary.) They were part of the hardcore-punk mileu, but predate Hardcore. I take Darryl Jenifer's word over yours. HR has also made statements to similar effect but I'd have to track that down.

    No, I haven't.

    No, it doesn't.

    Playing fast is only one small part of it. Incidentally, they also opened for the Clash during their brief residency at Bond's Casino, that must've been AMAZING.

    Is that why your spelling and grammar are so atrocious? Is that why you can't construct coherent arguments or complete sentences?

    None of this is relevant.

    Boston also has an impressive history of punk and hardcore.

    You mean the shitty 90's metal band?

    Again, you're either not understanding or being willfully dense. The term hardcore came into use to describe the second generation of MOSTLY American punk bands who had a new sound that was more "hard-core." LATER, Minor Threat came along and with some other bands created a seperate genre which became Hardcore. Hardcore and hardcore-punk are two different things. I generally just refer to the latter as simply "punk", like most people, because otherwise it gets too technical and people tend to get confused.

    There's no connection or relationship whatsoever. Like Anarchism, Christianity, Rock 'n Roll, Hardcore is a part of human culture that has defining features and a beginning which can be known and understood. In fact understanding where it came from is the best way to understand what Hardcore is. Just like Punk or anything else, you start at the basics, what is the thing-in-itself? To do that you have to look at where it started.

    The quality or merit of any bands is really irrelevant, the present discussion really just revolves around what bands are or are not Hardcore. I couldn't care less what music you happen to enjoy.

    How long did it take you to come up with that?
     
  9. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yea, Boston has such a great history of hardcore and you know so fucking much that you dont even know that VILE was one of the most intense insane Boston hardcore bands of all time. From 1982, jackass.
     
  10. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    That wasn't in the "Book"
    :lmao:
     
  11. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    hey NGNM85, does the word "redundancy" mean anything to you?
     
  12. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    This is something you do all the time, you combine disparate statements that have no relation to one another, and change the subject frequently.

    Are you actually debating whether or not any legitimate or influential bands have come out of the Boston underground scene? Certainly that’s not true. Off the top of my head I’d name the Freeze, Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Dropkick Murphys, SSD, the Unseen, Gang Green, Slapshot, the Trouble, Negative Fx, for a few examples.

    I’ll admit I was unaware of this band, Vile. What does that prove?
    I fully concede there are a number of bands, probably at least a few hundred thousand in punk and hardcore genres alone, around the world, I am unaware of. Just as there are probably just as many or more that you are unaware of. This in itself is meaningless trivia.

    Lastly, you’re implying that because I was unaware of this one band my entire body of knowledge of punk and alternative music is flawed. This is poor reasoning at best. Vile were not of any major historical significance. As for my knowledge on the subject of punk and alternative music I’m really an amateur historian, but I’ve yet to hear you say anything remotely intelligent on the subject of punk rock, or anything else for that matter.


    No, Vile were not included in Steven Blush’s “American Hardcore”, BEACAUSE they are not historically significant. Although, they sound alright. I don’t see that you have any point. If you want to challenge any historical facts I can dig out the material and we can go over it. Otherwise…

    What’s redundant is explaining the same thing over and over again to an idiot. It's hopeless.
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Otherwise what? Youll go back to your profesors throne at the University of Who Gives a Fuck and sulk. The point that Anxiety is making is that you don't understand redundancy, and your trying to teach us all a leson about Punk Rock facts most of which you've culled from the OPINIONS of others. NOT from personal experience. If we want to think of DK and Bad Brains as Hardcore thats entirely our buisness, regardless of what Darryl and HR say. What I think were all saying is LIGHTEN UP, we dont care what youve read and rehash on this forum were much more interested in YOUR opinion on things. I'm not the only one who feels your arrogance seething in your words. On another thread I backed off and toasted your health so as to bury the hatchett so to speak, to which you replied "Sufficient". You constantly try to talk down to people on this site who don't agree with you and site your superior knowledge....give us a break with that bullshit, every last one of ALL of our opinions are valid, even yours when you give IT. Now go ahead and do your little QUOTE breakdown and rebuttal...
     
  14. BeautifulChaos

    BeautifulChaosMember Forum Member


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    fuck yea i love hardcore! the harder the better :)
     
  15. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    facts matter if ya wanna avoid the mainstream taking stock, yea don't isten to the horses mouth of people wheo were there, mite as well ignore the lot of ya too, make shit up, the germs, now theres a hardcore band or were they punk, there are definitions sometimes, or the titles wouldn't more often than not be coined or was it the media hmmm, ian mackaye sure calls himself punk playing hardcore, why, thats where it all started anarcho PUNK!
     
  16. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    yeah, my other point in pointing out redundancy is that not only do I think no one really cares about punk history enough to have it influence them, but seriously... WHO THE FUCK CARES IF IT'S PUNK OR HARDCORE? WHO THE FUCK CARES WHO STARTED WHAT, WHO YOU DEEM AN IMPORTANT INFLUENCE, WHO I DEEM AN IMPORTANT INFLUENCE, OR WHATEVER. It's all punk rock to me, and if i want to call minor threat hardcore, bad brains reggaecore, DK punkcore, pansy division queercore, the pogues irishcore, the clash skacore, et cetra et cetracore, then so what? how does it hurt anyone else? (please don't answer these questions, they are rhetorical.)

    NGNM85 I have nothing against you personally, and i agree with you on some things, and disagree with you on somethings, but really there comes a time when you just have to let it go. If we were arguing about activism, anarchism, or something important to us as a whole, I'd say fight on, but on this topic, don't you think you've argued your point enough? Do you not realize people are pushing your buttons just cause they know it annoys you at this point?

    Personally I hate labels, as i've pointed out before, i think there are too many divisions between us already. Let's just agree it's good music and be done with it.
     
  17. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There will never be enough nails in this asshats coffin.
     
  18. NGNM85

    NGNM85Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Otherwise...there is nothing to discuss. I thought it was implicit. That's all I was saying.

    That would require time travel in my case. Also, honestly, I think I can learn more about Punk as a whole the way i did by comprehensive study. I would love to have been in England around 75-77, and LA between, say 77-81, or whatever, but I don't think I would've learned anything really essential that I don't already know, beyond how incredible those bands were live, or what tghose specific individuals were like, personally. What I know about the origins of hardcore is opinion in about the same way as a paleontologist's description of the cretaceous, or a historian's description of the beginning of the rennaissance. Niether of them were actually THERE, but we can consider this information very reliable. Moreover, I virtually never reference just a single source.

    Well, if the guitarist and lead singer don't know what kind of music they are playing, who would? I have to disagree. This is a point I was making before. The facts matter, always.


    ...........I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

    Opinions are only valuable to the extent they can be supported and borne out by facts. I don't say, or generally try not to say, things like "I disagree with the war in Iraq." or "I feel that this band is more hardcore than punk." because that's not particularly valuable and I wouldn't expect anyone else to take anything at face value. You can't debate feelings, it's pointless to try. Facts however, are very clear.

    Arrogant? Perhaps, but I'd say I've got a pretty good batting average. Especially on subjects like punk rock where I feel very confident because I've invested so much time and effort I feel I should be. That's sort of subjective. However, I have very little patience for stupidity. One thing I grow more and more tired of is people making bold statements about things they don't understand, I have very little tolerence for bullshit.
    Especially when I hear something that is just totally and completely fucked; like most of shit Cocytus has posted. There is a limit.


    Well, that was because you just sort of let it drop, you just agreed to disagree. Nothing was really settled.
    Only one of us can be right. There may be two or more sides to every issue, but only one truth. Unless one is discussing totally subjective matters like the quality of art. I could say Lichtenstein's a genius, you could say his paintings are ugly, I disagree, but that's fairly subjective. (Although I think there are at least some general truths as to what constitutes good or bad art.) When it comes to purely historical matters, then we're talking pure facts.

    Well, most of my posts have tended to revolve around responding to things I see that are bogus or questionable.

    In some cases...

    Everyone has the right to an opinion, however, that doesn't make it right or valid. Once an opinion is expressed publicly, the person should expect it to be subject to scrutiny. Especially so with statements that go against the status quo or fly in the face of accepted facts. Like Abbie Hoffman said; "I'm really a defendant full-time." That's the way it goes. It's no different for me, or anybody.
     
  19. Cocytus

    CocytusExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    On a side note of hardcore, and because the duke of punk history A number 1 has no clue who they are, I just got a mint copy of Black Uniforms Faces of Death LP...Fuck this blows everyones shit MP3 rips apart.

    Download it if you must, but seriously buy it.
    This is on par with ANTI CIMEXs Country of Sweden LP.
    for me to say that, takes alot of impressing.

    Cliff Lundberg needs to start playing guitar again what the fuck.
     
  20. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Thanks again anxiety for ignoring Everything i had just sed previously muha, like woa and ngwotsit grems avatard, u r being divisive, listen to anxiety in regards to thatish, stop, u don't have to be right when all they do is chuck insult, facts speak for themselves but u've gone beyond the pale and thanks for facts, cheers ears.

    now i think about it, discharge pretty much started d beatish or 'crust' but are not the only ones however few there were but standout and bad brains precursed grindcore, whoever sed that is pretty onnit.
     
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