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What about Hardcore?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by Kobac, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. t-bag

    t-bag Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Can't forget old Murphy's Law Half HC/Half Oi Good Tunes Nonetheless
     
  2. Kobac

    Kobac Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Finger up SXd.
     
  3. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    read a book
     
  4. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I can only assume you're simply being provocative. I've read virtually all of the most substantive and respectable volumes on the subject and quite a few lesser works. I'm sure the first you're going to cite is Steven Blush's "American Hardcore", which is alright except it's greatest failing is he labels EVERY band from that time period as "Hardcore." This is why I suggest people read "Please Kill Me", "England's Dreaming" (The best single volume on punk rock.) and "We Got the Neutron Bomb", FIRST, because it's VERY misleading.

    I'm not going to go too far in depth, but we have to go to the beginning of Hardcore. Now, Hardcore didn't just appear one day, it very slowly migrated out of punk rock until it became it's own seperate genre. In fact, it started as a TYPE of punk rock "Hardcore PUNK", later, shortened to simply "Hardcore."

    So this dilineation we're making today, didn't exist back then. "Hardcore Punk" was a term coined to
    describe the second wave of post-Pistols (Mostly) American punk bands. Bands like Black Flag and TSOL, etc. These bands followed the Germs, Screamers, X, etc., and responded by amplifying the aggression and simplifying the music down simpler, making it more "hardcore." Black Flag, the Dead Kennedys, DOA and Bad Brains all PREDATE the existence of a seperate genre known as hardcore which began with Minor Threat.

    The same name is occasionally used to describe them, but it's two VERY different things. The technical term for this is a heteronym. Like, Libertarian, means a type of anti-authoritarian socialist for a lot of people, especially on this site, and all over the world, but in the US it also means this sort of right wing lassez-faire type ideology; it's the same name, but it's two different things. DOA, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, and Morris/Ryes/Cadena-era Black Flag are all PUNK bands.
     
  5. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    A lot of people use the DOA album hardcore '81 as a reference point for the start of the label hardcore,
    and I realize that the term wasn't used during black flags early years and such,

    But most people haven't memorized the history of punk which you obviously have
    I really do not care when bands started calling themselves hardcore
    The Intensity of the fucking music is what makes a band hardcore, raw energy
    not the bullshit labels and timelines, fuck the facts
     
  6. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Then don't make erroneous statements implying otherwise. You were deliberately provoking me, and deliberately implying that my statements were wrong, AND ill-informed. I mean, if you think I'm an asshole that's fine, I obviously don't care, but you don't get to say I'm wrong just because you think I'm an asshole.

    This is absolutely wrong. If there is one thing we should all absolutely agree on is the facts DO matter. I mean, opinions are nice I guess, that's what these web forums tend to be about most of the time.. However, opinions only have value to the degree they are substantiated by facts. Facts is essentially another word for truth, or reality. Facts absolutely matter. Always.
     
  7. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    stylistically no, age wise yes, i see it as all 'punk', sometimes i feel ike its a cross seas thing and any hardcore kid who looks down on a punk is a divisive fuck, the same thing they fight against, nothing to do with us perse, we'll meet them on the st's not to fight but to unite for a time.

    the only diff i see is style, thats it, as much as england got coopted so was the hardcore scene as some say all do, yes and no as i think the philosphical trueisms remain the same, we're all against the same shit, they call it being liberal, the orginal world meaning of the word, to let people be free unless they fuck with you, thats where 'bolotixs' can come in, how do you figure someone you've never seen fucks with you ahhhh

    mind u jocks ruin shit, hopefully for us.

    no sometimes facts are written by the winners, history teaches us that; but they are important.
     
  8. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There are no facts only interpretations, you obviously weren't there so you cant tell me what is and what isn't, only what you read in books and on the internet is what you try to spew onto others. These things you read are INTERPRETATIONS. Hardcore PUNK is the same thing as Hardcore when used in THIS context, that was made obvious by the original poster. Just because I think you're a know it all doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. I will agree to disagree
     
  9. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Now we're talking about metaphysics. What is reality? Does perception determine reality? What does it matter if either of us is delusional or hallucinating, or confused because the only thing separating the false from the real is an ineffable quality of realNESS that we can only interpret through our flawed or incomplete perception. Therefore; there is no such thing as reality, or we can never truly understand it. I cannot know you exist. You cannot know I exist. This is very interesting, especially when you're stoned, but it doesn't really lead anywhere.


    Most of what I said was supported by direct quotes from the artists in question, themselves. According to Daryl Jenifer and HR Bad Brains was a punk band that inspired and connected with the then-nascent hardcore sub-genre. Again, we're getting into problems of knowledge. I insist that any amount of research will vindicate what I said.

    I'd forgotten how this all started. Ultimately, the thread originator was either mistaken, or just speaking carelessly and thus confusing the issue.
     
  10. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    research don't mean shit if you don't have an open mind, surgery may have been a bit viseral but i feel thats the way they are and they have good things to say.
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I thought it was just me........
     
  12. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    stop getting on the net drunk :ecouteurs: ;)
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Sorry ASA but I'm not drunk, but if I was I sure as fuck could get on and do as I fuckin' well please....Dad
    :thumbsup:
     
  14. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    why is everyone so defensive on here?
     
  15. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    This is what I meant by "I thought it was just me"
     
  16. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    sweetaz, defenses where :lmao:
     
  17. Cocytus

    Cocytus Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    HAHAHAHAH dude you are the STUPIDEST FUCK ON HERE.

    LAY OFF THE SUBJECTIVE BOOKS YOU ARE READING.
    STOP ROMANTICIZING LIKE ALL THE OTHER FUCKHEADS WHO READ THESE RETARDED BOOKS KISSING BLACK FLAG AND DISCHORD RECORDS ASSES.

    In no fucking way did the Dead Kennedys, EVER simplify the music and make it more agressive.
    They just blew everyone the fuck away.
    Same thing with FEAR, they could PLAY.
    and the Bad Brains and dead kennedys STARTED Hardcore in the USA
    They were around playing like that in fucking 77, theres demos out there from 78/79 where was Minor threat?
    NOT EVEN A BAND YET.
    they didnt start til 1980.

    and if you really wanna go even deeper into the history of hardcore, theres bands from Japan, sweden, Finland, the UK all who were playing fast as fuck "hardcore" well before your beloved minor threat.

    Fuck any band that claims straight edge, fuck minor threat, Ian Mackaye is a fucking coke head.

    P.S. GISM started in 1979 and is better than anything dischord ever put out.
     
  18. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    One of us is, but I don't think it's me.

    At least I CAN read.

    I wasn't promoting Black Flag or Dischord.

    You're not comprehending what I said. Hardcore evolved from the second wave of post-Pistols US punk, these bands were generally, but not exclusively younger and played in a rougher, more aggressive style, more "hardcore." These new bands were called "hardcore punk", and included Black Flag and Bad Brains, then, shortly afterwards Ian Mackaye formed minor threat and formed what became a seperate genre known as Hardcore. It's like Big "C" communism, and little "c" communism; Communism is the political system of the USSR and it's satellites, communism is a political philosophy originated by Karl Marx. Bad Brains are fucking hard-core, but not Hardcore.

    They might have been playing fast music but they WEREN'T Hardcore. (Big H)

    Irrelevant, but ok.
    Seriously, I wonder how you find the door to get out of the house each morning.
     
  19. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    there is a diff between us hard-core and uk hard-core too but great post.
     
  20. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Lame (2
     
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