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US Attacks Libya

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Anxiety69, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    If they would be scared of that, then they would support Gaddhafi instead of fighting against him.

    So far this is not an occupation, this is just air support for libyan rebels. And once again, this is not US war this is UN war.

    They don't need military bases in libya, they already have bases in tunisia and many other countries around libya. Libya isnt even a strategic location.

    ?????????

    i didn't even insult you, and i am very calm....

    Oh okay, so you are saying that the couple of thousands of war casualties from WW2 is the same thing than the millions of death from the nazis. Then maybe we shouldnt have fought against them in WWII, since like you say, it is the same thing.....

    By the way, getting freedom has a price. Are you ready to pay it or you think its not worth it ?

    Seriously, maybe you should re-read yourself before posting, because what you are saying is............. weird.

    ?????????????????????????????

    Then please explain how they are supposed to accomplish a peaceful revolution when their tyrans attack them with bombings and heavy weapons....

    They tryed to make a peaceful revolution, it started with peaceful protests, but Gaddhafi sent army to kill them...

    Thats what you call peaceful ?

    By the way, Gadafi is the dictator but he's not the only one in control. Army is loyal to him, and the Gadafi clan is a big family with many children and other persons in Gadafi family who can replace him and take the power. The problem is not as simple as you think.

    90% of those casualties happenned during UN talks. A resolution was already on the way, but it takes time.
     
  2. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    And go against other countries as well?
    Obviously other countries wouldn't support US Aiding Gaddhafi.
    I think The easier/safer way for US to handle this would be to aid the rebels Bring their democracy to Libya and keep there oil.
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Do you seriously think they care ? They always supported and helped tyrants even if everyone hated them.... They even used to give weapons to Al-Quaida.... Today they are supporting Saudi Arabia for their petrol even if this country is still killing women for not applying islamist law and it is one of the most authoritarian/repressive country in the world...
     
  4. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I do actually think they care.
    Right now Is not the most perfect time to Draw attention to themselves with the people of the world standing up for there rights.
    I mean You said it yourself, this is no Iraq people are being being slaughter and just the fact that the whole world is reacting to this shows how big this is.
    The people have already Turned on US The last thing they need is war with massive countries.
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    USA never gave a shit about what the whole world thinks of their militarity interventions and if their only objective was to secure the oil that they already own in libya, they wouldnt support a revolution against Gaddhafi since its because of him that they own lybian oil

    Anyway, this is a United Nations military intervention and not a US intervention. Maybe you can pretend that USA care about libyan oil (even if its not true) but the UN doesnt give a fuck about libya petrol.

    If they really wanted to start a war for petrol then explain me why they didn target a country that actually has signifiant oil reserve, like saudi arabia...

    Then why would they start a war for oil if they dont want to draw attention.... your argumentation is very contradictive...
     
  6. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sorry If Im getting my word mixed up right now.
    Kind of hard to have a conversation at 2am :S I cant even spell correctly :ecouteurs:
    So you're saying US would let the Libyan people have the oil?
    Btw There news that obama is taking heat because he didn't have the right to release those plane, or some crap like that. you people have a computer. look it up.
     
  7. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Life is priceless, and it should be valued. What I meant by saying "Death is death it's all the same" is that we shouldn't fight wars. There is always an option, and that's why I'm against military support in Libya ( don't get me wrong, I support any help that's been given to oppresed). I know that it is right, and Gadaffi has to be stopped, but I'm more into human nature. I belive every man can be both good and evil. Evil comes evil goes, but the "good" part of us must be discovered. Same with the army supporting Gadaffi, when Gadaffi is killed and when there's no one left to pay them for anything, they will realize that they have lost thousands of people for nothing.
    Is it so hard to agree that Gadaffi has to be removed from the thorne ? No. Is it so hard to help the poor people ? No. The air support is able to arive in Libya for lets say 1 & a half day.
    The army started attacking them when the became more violent. When they realized it won't be easy, they just had to wait for the moment to come, and shoot Gadaffi. It's nonsense I know, but, I have a strange feeling that all wars can be avoid. Also "The problem is not as simple as you think.", well it is :ecouteurs: We have two sides Gadaffi & revolutioneres,US force, UN force..They fight. Revolutioneres fight for freedom and democracy, UN force fights for : better reputation, helping people, oil plants, correcting mistakes done in the past (Iraq), also there's a chance of terroist attacks to happen ( Gadaffi is well-know by ordering some terrorist attacks). Also, why do they help Libya and not other countries ?

    You asked am I ready to pay the price ? No, indeed I'm not. I always thought we should have a very very precise and well-planned plan, and then make a move and start a revolution. That's just the way I am. I think that anomie is more possible to happen then anarchy.

    I didn't say you are wrong, not at all. In fact, what you have to say and your arguments tell me that you are right, but I don't see my opinion wrong either.
     
  8. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKTwMkB1Vjo[/video]
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Gaddafi must be stoped, easy to say, but how will you stop him without a war ?

    You sound like a hippy...

    Most of those people who support gadaffi do it by convictions not for money.... You seriously think that those pictures of militarities kissing and worshipping gadaffi pictures do it for money ?

    Saying that the only problem is gadaffi is as stupid as saying Saddam Hussein was the only problem in Irak.... And look whats going on today, even if nobody is paying them there are still numbers of rebels fighting against occupation and fighting against the new regime.

    No. Army attacked unarmed protesters.

    Sorry but you don't understand anything about politics.

    Iraq was a US coalition, the UN were against war in iraq. They are not correcting mistakes.
    Gadaffi WAS known for collaborating with ONE terrorist attack. He switched side and gave all the terrorists to the USA to be judged in court. He turned his back to terrorism and is fighting a war against Al-Quaida before the USA were at war with them.
    UN *is* helping other countries. As for Yemen and Bahrein, i already explained the differences.
    I already explained that nobody cares about libyan oil since its already under US control.

    No revolution in the whole history happenned without some kind of war, fightings, blood, and deaths. You are an idealist and an utopist, your revolution will never happen. If you're not ready to pay the price then dont pretend to be a revolutionnary...
     
  10. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    "Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."

    even the term revolution means to go in a circle or ellipses around a point on an axis. humanity and revolution is a vicious circle...the only thing we can do is try our best to live outside that circle. revolution is a joke. anarchy does not equal revolution.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

    Are you kidding me ? I think you don't understand anything about anarchism...

    How the fuck do you think we can achieve anarchism, considering that :
    1) anarchism is against political party
    2) considering point #1, the only way to achieve anarchism is through revolution
    3) all exemples of anarchism were achieved through revolution


    This is a quote from George Orwell in 1984, this quote concern AUTHORITARIAN COMMUNIST REVOLUTION like in the URSS

    I think you dont even understand that quote, since George Orwell is an anarchist who fought during the spanish civil war anarchist revolution, therefore he is not opposed to the principle of a revolution...
     
  12. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I've been thinking about this lately...what if there was enough nonprofit/ anarchist organizations/ alternatives to things besides either being in the private sector/ state ran, that enough people just started living fully that way. and made anything state ran and privately owned illegitimate and unnecessary? Communes I guess, but somehow on a mass scale.
     
  13. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    The gov't would find a reason to deem it illegal, send in riot cops to disperse then portray the people as lawless rioting terrorists that need to be defended against.
     
  14. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    The signs of the defeat of Libyan revolution - Statement by a Libyan anarchist

    http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20110324162
     
  15. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    ...waits for it...
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Interessing article Butcher, but i'm still waiting to hear what other solution can save the libyan people. If it can save thousands of life and prevent the libyan revolution from dying then it's a "lesser evil" worth it.
     
  17. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    njm njm njm..What you say is true, I may be an idealist but that's not utopia. I'm not pacifist, but I'm anti-war as I already said. I think that war isn't necessary to make a change ( dictatorship to "democracy") becouse I think Gadaffi can be stopped, and forced to quit his power. But isn't US cooperating with UN now ? My opinion is that US IS trying to make a good impresion, and rise their reputation which they have lost in Iraq. For me, Gadaffi is person who can't be trusted. If is in war against Al-Quaida that doesn't mean he is not ready to do a terrorist act. He said that this war will be long and bloody. But Gadaffi threatened to destroy oil plants and to sell them to Russians or whomever. ( http://www.businessinsider.com/gaddafi- ... oil-2011-2 ; "Just in case you need a reminder of what happened 20 years ago this month…Scorched earth: US jets fly over the Kuwaiti oil wells torched by Saddam Hussein, 1991" if you are comparing Iraq with Libya, then you will get this :thumbsup: )

    Revolutions can't be peacful not becouse of us, but becouse of police. BRIBE THE POLICE ! :ecouteurs: For the peacful revolutions happened in past - Gandhi - but I'm pretty sure it's impossible for that to happen today, so I hate giving examples from history, becouse we live in a diffrent age now. Things are diffrent. Government is more democratic and that's why people hate when they are cheated, becouse they live in illusion and when they finally open their eyes they start a revolution. Our ex-president said that there were few more options left before entering in Libya, and that's what I meant. There are always some options before a bloody revolution. There will always be casulaties. I never pretended to be a revolutionnary, just becouse my view on that stuff is diffrent then yours, doesn't mean you can tell me whether I am or I'm not a revolutionnary :ecouteurs:

    Edit : you have something against hippy ? :o
     
  18. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Just check my signature :lmao:
     
  19. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    o_O Then we have a problem :ecouteurs: :lmao:
     
  20. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Bring it on hippy :ecouteurs: ;)
     
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