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US Attacks Libya

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Anxiety69, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    France was a very good ally of Libya, Gaddhafi helped to fund Sarkozy electoral campaign and donated a lot of money.... But when France started to critize the repression against libyan rebels, Gaddhafi revealed compromising information on Sarkozy and said that he funded his electoral campaign.... France probably want to take their vengence on libya. At first they didnt support military intervention, but after Gaddhafi revealed those informations they wanted to accelerate the processus and fully supported a military intervention.

    France is also a very close neighboor of Libya so they are concerned by whats going on here.
     
  2. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Haha Don't worry, no offense taken
    You noticed that also?
    The funny thing is I was asking myself the same question earlier today :lmao:
    It's just a habit I guess o_O

    Or maybe there is a secret message in my writing?
     
  3. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    A read only the capital letters and it'll make a message sort of thing?

    I almost want to go over all your posts and see if you may have accidentally (or on purpose o_O ) done this.
     
  4. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    anyways I Was taking part of an anti war protest at Illinois and Literally Little Mad police men beat me and for some reason i found Urine on my clothes? Regardless it was a protest to DiE for.
    I mean Really guys You should have been there. we were OUt in the streets At night demanding these wars to stop. but Luck was on our side, because obviously those fat pigs couldn't Legally put a finger on us :thumbsup:
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Seriously i dont know how to react this time.... Obviously anarchists can't support wars, but on another side without this war the revolution in libya will be a failture and hundreds of thousands rebels will be slaughtered...

    So we can't support the war, but is it really productive to oppose against it ?

    This is like during WW2.... Ally's war isn't a good thing to support, but without this war nazism would have dominated europe and conquered all countries... Millions of jews and ethnic minorities would have died and maybe today we would live in an aryan-only world...
     
  6. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Redrum.
     
  7. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    ........
    Read MORE into it
     
  8. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    on a serious note
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLThP9terQ[/video]
    Look at this Video.
    Why isn't the United Nations trying to help Yemen or other countries?
    These people are getting slaughtered also
    why libya?
    I said It before and I'll say it again. They will not help anyone without getting something out of it.
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Because Libya is different. There are more rebels in libya, enough to overthrow the government and build a new one. In Yemen there are only protests. In libya like half of the country was under control of the rebels, while in Yemen there.

    Situation in Libya is way worse, Gaddhafi went really far threatening to make a "blood bath", threatening to attack civil airplanes and boats in the mediteranee, attacking his people with heavy weapons, etc.... You can't compare Yemen with Libya this is two very different things.

    Also, many governments officials quitted after the violence, a couple of days ago many military officiers and generals joined the protesters... it looks like there is hope that the people may win over the government without foreign help. This was very different in Libya, most of the government and militaries stood behind gaddhafi

    I asked it before and i'll ask it again : what are they getting in libya ?

    It is totally false that they dont act if they dont have anything to gain.

    What did they gain in Rwanda ?
    What did they gain in Bosnia / serbia ?
    What did they gain in Africa countries ?
    What did they gain in Yugoslavia ?


    And you will tell me that all these operations were for oil:
    http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/docum ... nslist.pdf


    I'm not defending the United Nations but for once that they are acting the way they should i can admit it.
     
  10. punkmumma

    punkmummaMember Forum Member


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    Gadafi is a bastard plain and simple but if he is removed he has many in his family or clan/tribe that will step into his position.
     
  11. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 23, 2010
     
    Ahhh....
    (you just always have to be right huh ungov)
    :lmao:
     
  12. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

    Seem familiar?

    UN approved.
    China and Russia opposed.

    Also, I think the US's reason behind this is public relations points. After Egypt, and seeing the opposition in Libya, they became afraid of people doing that here. So a way to show people that our government isn't guilty and in need of dismantling would be to openly support the rebels. Also, I assume they're afraid that the government set up after Gaddahfi's ousted will not be what they would like, and want to put their influence in it, just like they have done with countless other regimes.
     
  13. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Feb 7, 2010
     
    than what would be considered success? the rebels being killed by US and other troops amidst crossfire? the puppet leader that will repalce gaddahfi? i suppose you'd have to compare those things to the thousands being gunned down by gaddahfi's forces....choose a lesser of two evils if you will...

    it is a quagmire: but the fact that allied forces are so heavily involved does imply some kind of means to an end. e.g., where were these forces to stop the genocide in Darfur? i suppose there is an obvious opponent as compared to Darfur though....
     
  14. punkmumma

    punkmummaMember Forum Member


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    American Imperialism at its best this is why they are there and jump at the chance they want to have a huge control in the world. They support dictators around the world, Hypocrisy with many things including free trade but yet pro up their local industries with tariffs, human rights violations, international law violations, Excessive use of military like we are seeing again. Kind of like lets kill a fly with a grenade instead of one leave it alone or two a fly swat. America can tell the world to get rid of nuclear weapons but stock up on their own. This is why they should not be in Libya in fact the world need to get some balls and stand up to them will this happen? :@
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    If you lived there, then maybe the "lesser of the two evils" would be more important than you think.... What would be the best solution for you ? A real revolution without a puppet leader that will replace haddhafi ? Then maybe you should be more realist, because an anarchist revolution in libya would need air support to defeat libyan army.

    What the fuck are we supposed to do ? Let the revolution in libya die and just let gaddhafi win because we cant afford some death through crossfire ? If preferring a a low number of war casualties against tens of thousands of death from libyan army each week (not even talking about how it will scare revolutions in other countries) then i seriously dont understand your point of view.

    Stop being so elitist, an anarchist revolution isnt for today especially in country like libya, so while waiting for it to happen we are supposed to be sectarian bastards who will not support any people fighting against their oppressors just because they doesnt share their ideas ? Fighting against tyranny and crimes against humanity is very important, wether it is to bring democracy or to bring anarchism

    I think it is very egoist to say that it doesnt matter wether it is a bloody dictator or a "democracy with a puppet leader", especially when it comes from people who never lived under a dictatorship.

    Anyway, anarchism is also supposed to mean "power to the people", if the people want democracy and not anarchism then it's their right and we should support them. It's called positive progress and this is important.


    Obviously.

    China and Russia were supporting and arming North Korea...


    Excessive ?

    What is excessive is Gaddhafi's use of heavy weapon against unarmed innocent people.

    Nothing to do with imperialism, for once.

    First it's not an US intervention it's an UN intervention, get your facts.
    Why should we stand up to oppose an intervention that the libyan people asked for ? Why should we protest against the only thing that can save the libyan revolution against tyranny and dictatorship ?
     
  16. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Wait A sec.
    So I've heard there are troops IN Libya even though US Clearly said No military actions besides bombing was suppose to happen.
    so are you saying that's how the rebels will be killed?
    explain a bit more please.
    Also I forgot to mention before the reason I also though US would be getting something out of aiding Libya
    and again ungov correct me if I am wrong But even if US does own the oil wouldn't they need to make sure it stays that way?
    Wouldn't they need to make sure the Libyan people don't take control of it?
     
  17. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @ungov. yeah you missed my point.

    i understand that in order to remove gaddahfi, who has military power, there must be greater military power to counter it. however, that has nothing to do with anarchism or democracy and everything to do with removing gaddahfi because he's causing instability in that region. if the US and other allied forces can aid revolution in the middle east and north africa, than they can establish power in those regions.

    so, outside military force, from a utilitarian point of view, will be beneficial to the libyan people. it will stop the mass amounts of killing. however, there will be a post-industrial society established in Libya once this all blows over. maybe thats a good thing, maybe that's not. who knows at this point.

    but yeah i wasn't attacking you dude, so take it easy with the insults. we all know you know alot, you don't have to prove anything. i was just trying to add some food to the thought.
     
  18. JoeyV

    JoeyVExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah We already pretty much established that I think
     
  19. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    cool. god forbid we repeat ourselves.
     
  20. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    "Death is death it's all the same" I think that the "low number" of casualties is pretty much the same as thousands of them. Life is a life. I think this revolution could have been ended in a "peaceful" way. If only Gadaffi was killed when they had time ( when he was still in the city talking in front of everyone ). Better a puppet democracy then a rough dictatorship. I know I have been repeting myself over and over, and that some of you said it's too hard too kill Gadaffi, but in my opinion it wasn't ( at the beginning, now it's nearly impossible to kill only him, without any casualties ) OR U.S had to react sooner ( before 7000 casualties) and remove him from his throne. As for now, the only thing that's left is to bombard his troops until they are weeker then rebels or something like that. I also can't say if I support all this actions in Libya or not, so I'm looking into future, and hopping rebels will get what the want - a fine democracy state. I don't think this will be another occupation, but if Gadaffi falls, there will be a "puppet" for sure. Hmm, also an idea came to my mind - they force him to leave, how ? Well, NATO sends thousands of troops down there and they declare war - and maybe Gadaffi will surrender, but it's to risky :ecouteurs:
     
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