Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

The Zeitgeist Movies, Movement and the Venus Project

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Vegan_Who_Wears_Leather, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. Vegan_Who_Wears_Leather

    Vegan_Who_Wears_LeatherActive Member Forum Member


    36

    0

    0

    Jun 16, 2010
     
    Thoughts? I thought that the movies were good. I don't take everything that they say as fact, but, for me anyways, it got me to think and to question the things in society today. As for the movement and the Venus Project, I feel that a lot of their goals are compatible with anarchism.

    Here's the link to the Zeitgeist movies in case you haven't seen them:
    http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

    And here's a link to the Zeitgeist Movement website if you want to know about it and the Venus Project:
    http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?Itemid=50
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,339

    71

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 35 years old
    Canada United States
    Conspirationy bullshit of the worst kind. Please no publicity for this bullshit here.

    The venus project and the ziergeist movement is bullshit, if you cant by yourself see whats wrong with this stupidity i doubt i can do something for you... This bullshit is almost a sect they are fanatics wanting to build futuristic cities for their movement and they ware waiting the aliens

    fuck them... there are information sources way more clean, reliable and interessing...

    zietgeist is just about money and building a sect with the adepts
     
  3. Vegan_Who_Wears_Leather

    Vegan_Who_Wears_LeatherActive Member Forum Member


    36

    0

    0

    Jun 16, 2010
     
    Thanks for sharing your opinion. I never said that I didn't find anything wrong with the movies or the movement, and if you could share some information sources I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
     
  4. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,085

    1

    0

    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Watching the Venus project video, I kind of got that disgusted sinking feeling in my gut one usually get's when observing cults.
    It's like way to planned out futuristic, idk. Just sayin something doesn't seem right to me about it.

    And Zeitgeist was pretty good. The religious part had a lot of truth in it, I believed 9/11 was an inside job before I saw the 9/11 part, but that was decent. And I will admit the New World Order part shook me up a bit. I mean, it's believable, you can't put anything like that past the Government.
     
  5. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    432

    0

    0

    Mar 12, 2010
     
    the thing that made me wonder most was when they were talking about the pentigon gettign owned. how there were no plane parts found at the site of the crash or somthing like that? am i remebering it right
     
  6. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,085

    1

    0

    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Something like that. That part confused me and left me hanging. I couldn't tell if they we're saying no plane flew into it at all, or if it was a plane but it wasn't piloted by who they said. I mean, wouldn't at least somebody in the immediate area come out and say, "I saw no fucking plane." or "There was a plane, I saw it." That lie seems a little to hard to pull off.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,339

    71

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 35 years old
    Canada United States
    Yeah right. The USA bombed their own pentagon. Whatever. It's bullshit.

    How come no one involved in the pentagon attack site talked about that ? Anyway why the fuck would they do that, there was already the WTC and other United 91. Maybe those are fakes too ??

    Seriously guys, stop believing shitty conspiracy theories its made only for the money and you are caught by the scam.

    Zeitgeist movement is full of shit, it is shitty conspiracy theories, they only want to make money so they can build their shitty dream city and spend millions of dollars to live like bourgeois while peoples still die of hunger yeah right what a good idea... It looks like a fucking sect. And like all other conspiracy theories you can always find the same common point: they are heavily supported by the far-right thinkers and they are anti-Semitics..

    A futuristic high-society bourgeois society with socialism, sounds fucking funny to me. Especially if the project is started by a rich engineer like Jacques Fresco

    http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/bl ... i-semitism

    http://www.anarchistblackcat.org/viewto ... =11&t=2276

    http://libcom.org/forums/news/who-fuck- ... t-14052009
     
  8. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Tis bullshit conspiracy. Moreover, it borrows heavily from fascist rhetoric of the ZOG or JOG (Zionist/Jewish Occupied Government), the idea that there is a secret group of ppl (Jews/bankers/the reptilians) secretly controlling the world and working towards the establishment of 'one world government'.

    The first section is a non-brainer, nor relevant to anything really. Christianity did not develop in a vacuum, and so obviously it borrowed symbolism and rhetoric from pre-existing religions. The question to ask is: so what?
    What has this got to do with anything?
    The way the bible has changed over the years to fit the socio-political needs of the Church over the years has been many, why does this point to a 'conspiracy' or whatever?
    It is only those who believe the Bible is in fact the unaltered 'word of God' that should be concerned. However, religion has, and will always be, a social construct with definite political aims. To say that Christianity borrows from other religions and contemporary socio-cultural contexts is about as radical as claim the world is round. What does this section attempt to prove? Nothing particularly enlightening, rather operates as a means to gain legitimacy for the ensuing bullshit throughout the remainder of the film.

    Section two, the 9/11 stuff. Well I'm not an engineer, I'm in no position to make an informed decision on the 'impossiblity' of the twin towers collapsing, thus pointing to a controlled explosion. However, my father is a structural engineer and thought the 'official' story of the collapse of the towers to be plausible; although many engineers disagree. All I can do insofar as this is concerned is point you to this page: www.debunking911.com/towers.htm
    Maybe consider all viewpoints before coming to a decision.
    Outside of that, I don't really know nor care about the 'dodginess' of the official story. The more important question is: What is gained by this wholesale massacre of one's own subjects? ie, what did, if Zeitgeist is to be believed, the US Government gain out of this attack? A war on Afghanistan and Iraq? Attacks on Civil Liberties? Whilst no-one can deny this occurred, the question for me is why would you need to stage a terrorist attack against yr own subjects to go to war and curtail civil liberties. It ain't exactly hard, nor rare, for the US Government to go to war for no reason other than geo-political interests, even when this is opposed by public opinion. The US Gov doesn't need public support to conduct wars, it just goes and does so.

    The third section, however, is the scariest, in terms of recruiting people on the 'left' to hardcore anti-Semitic politics. As is noted in the counterfire article ungov links to. The idea that there is a secret society running the world and working towards establishing a 'one world government' is one exposed by fascists and anti-semites for decades now. Read the 'protocols of the elders of Zion' and you will no doubt see the reflection of Zeitgeist's politics.
    Moreover, this idea comes from a key misunderstanding of the operations of the State and Capital. 'The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.' * Plus, Capital has always been global in scope and intentions. Capitalism, driven by expansion, is obliged to seek new markets for exploitation constantly, thus it hardly seems surprising that national borders are made redundant by Capital (whilst very, very real for people). This is what 'globalisation' is about, you know? Finally, it is hardly suprising that our ruling class act to further their position of dominance over society. They are not a secret sect misleading the public, rather they use the 'legitimate' means of Capitalist economics and the State (institutions designed specifically for this purpose) to reinforce their dominance and fuck us over.

    Zeitgeist is bullshit politics, which not only fundamentally misunderstands how Capitalism operates, but offers us the abhorrent solution of blaming the Jews.

    * Marx, K. & Engels, F., The Manifesto of the Communist Party, Marxist Internet Archive version, p.4.
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,339

    71

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 35 years old
    Canada United States
    Totally agree with butcher once again. I debated the 9/11 topic so often and the subject of the shitty zeitgeist movie so often that i got sick of it and didnt have the patience to write another good critic ;)

    True or falses, the conspiration theories are just a smoke screen and while the people lose their time debating on theories that you can't confirm they are laughting their ass because those peoples don't fight against the consequences of 911: war in iraq and in afghanistan. We should worry more about stopping wars instead of losing our time with shitty conspiration theories.

    Not even talking that most of those theories come from far-right thinkers. I have a very good documentary on this but unfortunatly it's only in french. A journalist trace back where the 911 theories comes from, and it is ALWAYS a stupid far-right philosopher who wanted to make money with a book, or an anti-semitist fanatic of ZOG theories and who immediatly saw a link with israel.


    PS: Butcher you surprise me, you are quoting marx !! :p
     
  10. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    432

    0

    0

    Mar 12, 2010
     
    it pisses me off that i knw a few people who have watches the movie and think they are all smart and knowing now about whats goin on in the world. i have friends who quote the movie like it was a dictionary. it gets anoying because im alwase seem to be the one tellign peopel its full of shit but they gang up on me sayign how real it is. they watch one video and think they are inlightend
     
  11. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    1,085

    1

    0

    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Well then fuck it all. Let's ignite Toronto on fire on June 26th and 27th.
    Sorry once again, I'm drinking while I post this and probably wont like it when I read it in the morning.
    But new rule, I'll give you a disclaimer everytime I drink so you know what to, and not to take seriously from what I say :thumbsup:
     
  12. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    C'mon sex panther, have you read 'Capital'? Gold.
    Just cos I'm an Anarchist (capitalisation cos I only identify with proper class-struggle anarchism, the rest is a joke and offensive to me) doesn't mean that Marx didn't write very good and concise critiques of Capitalism. This statement sums up the function of the State so clearly, why not quote him honey?
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    187

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Absolutely agree, Marx did get a lot of things right above and beyond the things he was full of shit on...
     
  14. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,339

    71

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 35 years old
    Canada United States
    Yeah i know, that was just a joke! :p Marx did a very good critic of capitalism it's just that his solution was wrong. And yes i have read "the capital"...
     
  15. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    all good honey bunny :p
     
  16. manvsmaritoni

    manvsmaritoniActive Member Forum Member


    37

    0

    0

    Mar 12, 2010
     
    too bad i am so late to reply on this. probably a waste of time but i have a few moments to waste and i can't pass this opportunity to put my two cents in on something i once felt very strong about. at one time i was a strong supporter of the zeitgeist movement. now not so much but i certainly think there are good points in both films that some of you clearly did not pick up on. i wonder where the anti semite stuff is coming from? perhaps it is i who missed something. in any case, i find it hard to believe any of you would honestly defend the banking systems of this world and the governments they essentially own. money, as it is used today, is a scam. false flag attacks are very real. i am not saying the zeitgeist point of view is totally correct but what the us government told us happened, did not happen. i saw good and bad in these movies. i am sorry to hear anyone saw only one or the other.
     
  17. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    187

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    It's a slippery slope indeed, the thing is they are stating the obvious to plant their worm virus...of course Anarchists are against all the banks in the world and the IMF but these conspiracy theorists tow the line of the old white supremacy anti-ZOG rhetoric almost to a tee. They do not call for class war, they focus on division.
     
  18. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    2,118

    0

    18

    Sep 8, 2009
     
    such as?

    the idea that there is a secret cabal of bankers running the world is anti-Jewish fear-mongering 101. 'International Bankers' has oft been used as a term to mean 'Jews' by the far right for well over a century now.
    Whilst Zeitgeist isn't explicitly anti-Semitic from my viewings, it does borrow heavily on anti-Semitic thought and rhetoric inre: a secret organisation running the world. Anyone who talks about the 'New World Order' is borrowing heavily from the far-right. Moreover, the film quotes Louis McFadden, notorious anti-Semitic congressman, as 'evidence' about the creation of the Fed.

    How the fuck do you reach this conclusion?
    Does this:
    Sound like the writings of an apologist for Capitalism and the State?
    To be critical of Zeitgeist does not mean one is defending banking systems, rather highlighting that the grounds on which Zeitgeist bases its critique of Capitalism are stoopid and wrong.
     
  19. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    430

    3

    0

    Dec 29, 2009
     
    I really don't have an issue with the idea of calling for a new and independent investigation in to 9/11. Why the fuck not?

    For those who say it won't stop the wars well...what exactly was that alleged trigger of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and other US military operations and curbing of civil liberties.

    As an Anarchist, I think that if we really are that hateful and distrusting of the governments of this world then we would actually be wanting to pick their official stories apart. What we seem to have here in radical circles in some cases is the concept that the government is evil and fucking oppressive but don't question what we have been told by the media and the government when it comes to 9/11 or else you must be a crazy person. Don't question the trigger to the new global conflict (TWoT: The War on Terror).

    I am not a follower of the Zeitgeist movement or anything like that, I will admit to having watched the first one then got bored with the sequel very quickly.
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


    4,339

    71

    24

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 35 years old
    Canada United States
    Fuck zeitgeist, if you want to learn something interessing about bank system the watch the documentary "Money as debt" at least you will not be told some bullshit about conspiracy theories and they will not try to reappropriate you for their shitty zeitgeist movement and venus project.
     
Loading...