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The Growing Temptation of Authoritarianism

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by gotohell_/pol/, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. gotohell_/pol/

    gotohell_/pol/New Member New Member


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    I'm sick of the state here in the US and sick of the state of things worldwide:
    - Private property and rampant consumerism in the midst of dwindling resources threatens any peaceful future for the working class by accelerating the depletion of resources.
    - Nationalists like Richard Spencer are standing up for economic equality but shooting themselves in the foot with stupid white supremacist bullshit, and their popularity is growing.
    - Silicon valley and government are working hand-in-hand to try to bring about some transhumanist take on feudalism or slavery that no science fiction book I've heard of can provide an example of...
    - The liberal left remains so far right that I am watching the Trump cohort that I live around moving left, it's probably only a matter of time before they become legit neo-nazis. They continue to worship a political figure.

    Every day, I want to hop on to some authoritarian left bandwagon to avert the onslaught of unwanted change I fear. Meanwhile, I still have almost all the same values I had 10 years ago. I'm just willing to sacrifice some freedoms temporarily to ensure the security of us, our continued existence as working people; to prevent exterminism. Am I going crazy? Am I the only one who feels this way?
     

  2. anarchodyke

    anarchodykeMember Forum Member

    where im from in the states, the only people really doing things to beat back the alt right are anarchists, and a few socdems that are quickly moving down and left
     
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  3. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    It's the same situation here in oz. Since the beginning of neo liberalism we have been subjected to an unrelenting class war. We have lost almost all the gains that the working class achieved from the New Deal to the 70's. There can be no reforming of capitalism. It has to go. Hopefully the next global financial crisis which the experts say is coming will finally wake us peasants up to overthrow this rotten system. The state is already prepared for it what with mass surveillance. militarised policing and draconian laws.
     
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  4. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Sorry to have to quote somebody like Ben Franklin at this point, but please keep in mind that those who would sacrifice freedom for security, get, and deserve neither.

    If you sacrifice your freedoms, you might NEVER get them back. There is no such thing as "Temporary" when it comes to sacrificing freedom.

    Music suggestion of the day: White Punks on Hope by Crass
     
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  5. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Damn straight. We don't need or want the Leninist or Maoist solutions. My initial contact with anarchism was syndicalist. Socialism is fine if its of the libertarian kind but Communism, pass. We don't need to trade one lot of masters for another lot. The Soviet Union was never a workers paradise. All you need do is look at China today. A neo liberal hellhole ruled by one party with no scope for dissent. And then there's North Korea, a really fun place. Please read people, you need to educate yourselves on liberalism, fascism, nazism, communism and other authoritarian strains of governance. The information is out there, usually by academic publishing imprints.Develop your critical thinking skills also. Our education set us up to b drones.
     
  6. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    You realize that we had major beef with CRA$$ on this forum right? That they sicked their lawyers on us for having the audacity of offering free downloads of their albums to anarchists around the world? That they never bothered to ask us to delete them, as our charter so clearly states? That they had over 3000 other downloads erased and over 5 years of work shot to hell through their lawyers as well? In case you didn't know....
     
  7. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I've read the forums concerning this site's problems with Crass. I merely suggested the song for it's lyrical content concerning certain statements made in this forum. As far as extreme left vs extreme right is concerned, I still think the lyrics are relevant. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers for recommending what I consider a relevant song. I apologize if I did.
     
  8. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    REALLY? Well that's them on the shit list. Can we now look forward to another filthy lucre top up my retirement fund reunion tour a-la the fucking sex pistols, Velvet underground or throbbing gristle (to name a few) It's not as if their stuff is freely available either. Wot a pack of greedy bastards.
     
  9. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I saw Steve Ignorant and The Last Supper quite a few years back. They charged $20.00 U.S. for the show. So, in a way, it's already happened. No new material, just all the Crass songs you know, love and grew up with. I wanted to see whatever version of Crass that still existed perform live, but I could've just as easily stayed at home and listened to all my old records and C.D.s. At least he pretended to care, unlike The Misfits that charged $60.00+ U.S. for the nosebleed section in arenas. Interesting how they always dissed The Clash (Who, on many levels had it coming) but then live out the lyrics "Turning rebellion into money".......

    That being said, I still think the sentiments expressed in White Punks on Hope is relevant.
     
  10. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Here prices are even more obscene. One group who traded on their working class roots is doing a reunion tour at a cool $260.00 Aus per ticket. The National Folk Festival will cost you
    $1000.00 not inclusive of camping and parking fees, the much touted Byron Bay Bluesfest is even worse. I stopped going to live gigs back in the 90's when the cost of a live gig outstripped the cost of a CD [$30]. The only exceptions I made were for the wife's benefit, Steeleye Span at $75 a head and Cyndi Lauper at $100 each. She slept through the Steeleye concert and was disappointed with the Lauper one because she only did songs from her 1st lp. Live music by international acts has always been expensive here due to the distance factor but when local bands use those prices as their own benchmarks it's completely FUBAR.

    We live on $575 p/w between the two of us. We simply cannot afford to subsidise other peoples lifestyles. Accessing culture whether it be music gigs, art exhibitions [at state owned galleries no less], going to the movies or even out to dinner is simply not within our means, it has become the preserve of the well-heeled. It even affects our ability to give to charities on a regular basis. I can only support Slackbastard at the pissweak amount of $5 a month. my wife restricts herself to a single gold coin [$1-2] for buskers. It is isolating,alienating and a denial of our human rights. But hey, we are well off compared to the vast majority of humanity, globally speaking we are in the 1%. That's neo-liberalism for you.
     
  11. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    That wouldn't happen to be AC/DC now would it?
     
  12. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Betcha ass it did. They're defunct now anyway. 1 dead from Alzhiemers, vocalist is hearing impaired and another was doing jail time for drug/assault offences. They're now sitting back with their millions in the bank account. Besides they weren't worth shit after Bon Scott died. Back in Black was their last decent album in my book.
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    And $52 for long sleeve tour shirts... If you're really interested, all the evidence is here on the forum. It got really, really, ugly and involved half of Crass taking our side vs. the other half of CRA$$ (Penny, Steve, Gee) attempting to justify their greed. What fucked with me personally the most was that 90% of the 3000 downloads that got erased by their lawyers had been uploaded by the bands, band members, or DIY labels themselves. Prior to this we had been asked by Jello to please delete Alternative Tentacles releases as the label was struggling, and we very happily obliged.
     
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  14. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I figured it would be them. Didn't know about the assault/drug charges, but my respect for them went down quite a few points when they got Axl Rose to replace Brian Johnson as vocalist. I'm constantly amazed when bands with working class backgrounds forget where they came from, and charge for shows out of the price range of the working class. Same goes for bands who's members are old enough to collect old age pensions. I'm reminded once again of the song Rotten to The Core by Rudimentary Peni. I definitely agree with you about Bon Scott, and Back in The Black being the last good album. I like some of the stuff after that, but mostly just individual songs, not whole albums.
     
  15. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Unfortunately, I no longer have it in my file, but I used to have a picture that the graphic artist from Cra$$ did for Virgin Records years ago. It was a contest to find all the bands illustrated in the picture. If you found all the bands, I think you got a gift certificate or a shopping spree, or something like that. They didn't illustrate the actual bands themselves, but images of what the name was, for instance an illustration of a pile of rocks with a rose growing out of it would've been The Stone Roses, that kind of example. At least half of the band was sympathetic, put it doesn't surprise me too much that Steve Ignorant would be a right bastard. From people I've talked to online who have dealt with Crass personally, they have stated that he was always a hypocrite who never practiced what he preached, even going so far as to threaten to shoot out the kneecaps of the lead singer of Special Duties for the song Bullshit Crass

    At least Jello was hands on and contact you personally. He didn't go the rock star route and sic his lawyers on you. Considering the reputation he has, that was very sporting of him.
     
  16. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    Didn't hear about the Axl Rose bit but then I stopped paying attention after Back in Black. I'd bought the next album and thought it sucked. End of interest. Besides I'd discovered Venom by then, which started my serious metal phase during the eighties. Butt Axl is really barrel scraping. Never bought. Into the Mötley Crüe/Guns and Roses/Bon Jovi horseshit, as I went down the black/death and speed/thrash rabbit holes. Came out of it in the late eighties, there's only so much satan bullshit you can put up with. I wanted relevant lyrics and that's when I really got into punk/hardcore.
     
  17. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oh, boy. Do I remember the trouble Venom caused. Not the band itself, mind you, but what would happen if I played a Venom album at a party. (Or slayer, Metallica, or Motorhead) No, Judas Priest was acceptable, and so was Iron Maiden, but as soon as I put on one of the bands I mentioned it was "TURN THAT PUNK ROCK SHIT OFF!" There used to be fights at concerts and parties between the old school head bangers in the new generation. Now these bands are considered "Classic" or "Pioneers", but I still can't convince a majority of headbangers to check out See, Hear, Say Nothing by Discharge or the first two G.B.H. albums, who's shirts Metallica used to wear on the pictures of their early albums. I was lucky to see Venom and Slayer share the same bill back in 1985 when only punks, and the most adventurous fans of heavy metal knew who they were. Everything Slayer played sounded like a blur, which was disappointing, because I had Show No Mercy, and liked them up to that point. Venom was alright, but I think I could've had a better time sitting at home, listening to the albums, plus they lost me after At War With Satan. I thought side one was a little overindulgent. And don't even get me started about the argument I had at a party over Suicidal Tendencies. I said they were a metal band because of the guitar playing on the first album, and the person I was talking to strongly disagreed. Guns n Roses was a second rate hard rock band with a terrible Robert Plant impersonator, and, despite the fact, and in spite of the fact that Slash is mixed, after I sussed the lyrics to One in a Million, I wouldn't listen to anything by them. (And Axl went on to act like a pratt what with his walking off stage halfway through a show, or just coming on stage to complain about something, and explaining why they weren't going to play, thus starting riots) Other than the song Red Hot, I never liked Motley Crue in the least, and other than Wanted Dead or Alive, I never like Bon Jovi. Actually, I never even considered Bon Jovi heavy metal at all. Funny how back in the 70s and early 80s all the punks HATED Black Sabbath because the songs were slow, the guitar solos were overindulgent, and they were a bunch of washed up drug addicted has beens. Now the new generation of punks look to them as a blue print for "Crust". (Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. I still think Paranoid is one of the best anti-war albums ever put out, even if that wasn't the original intention, although I'm still put off by the religious bigotry of some of the lyrics expressed in War Pigs)
     
  18. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    I got evicted for playing Metallica's first 3 lp's. The Venom didn't help either. I loved at War with Satan and played it repetitively. Still do if I'm feeling nostalgic.

    I did my first trips to Black Sabbath. Had all the albums upto Mob Rules when the rot set in. I found Dio's lyrics to be plain silly and the thought of Deep Purple meets Sabbath made me want to up-chuck. But the first 6 Sabbath albums are classics in my book. You were a seriously social outcast if you were into Sabbath here. Nobody liked you except other Sabbath fans. People would swoon over Led Zeppeilin or Deep Purple but as soon as you mentioned the Sabs, it was like who took a shit on the floor. Who is laughing now? Especially now that Zeppilin have been shown up for the thieving rip-off bastards they were [not going into Page's paedophiliac tendencies].

    Being a Judas Priest fan here was dangerous as Halford was so obviously gay[the cover of Unleashed gave the game away], and our society was soooo homophobic. [It was illegal to be gay where I lived until I was 22 and I was in my 30's before the last state decriminalised it]. I bought my first Priest lp in 1980, Killing Machine, and got them all until they lost me with Turbo.

    The mainstream music scene here in the 80's was so vanilla they considered Bon Jovi heavy metal. One music show on TV used to lower itself enough for the presenter to say "OK meatheads, here's your ten minutes" and it was invariably Maiden, Crue, Quiet Riot or haircut bands like Poison. Like gee, I've stayed up till 4am for THIS? It wasn't until the state broadcaster put on a show called Rage that things started to open up.

    Possibly controversially, I've come to the conclusion that punk/hardcore/crust/grind etc is a variant of heavy metal with socially/politically relevant lyrics instead of the satanic stuff [which was itself really just an inchoate middle finger to the straight world]. Sure there are going to be exceptions to the rule but the vast majority draws on metal to some degree or another.
     
  19. The Hat

    The HatExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Side two of At War With Satan was good, and side one is alright, but it takes up a whole album side. I shouldn't say anything since Live/Dead is one of my favorite albums. My first trip was with The Beatles. I have all the Sabbath albums up to Born Again. If you don't like Ian Gillan's voice, fair enough, but I was a big Deep Purple fan up to Burn, which was the last good album IMHO. After Burn, Ritchie Blackmore left to form Rainbow, and, as far as I'm concerned, Dave Coverdale ruined the band, even with Jon Lord in it. Funny you should mention Black Sabbath and Deep Purple in the same breath. back in 1974, there was this concert in California at a race track called The California Jam which was televised for four nights. Night two had highlights from the performances of Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. I was already a Deep Purple fan, so I watched it, but Black Sabbath scared the shit out of me, but in a good way, like going on a very high roller coaster ride. When you start to go down, you're screaming your head off, and the adrenalin rush takes over, but when the ride is over, you want to get in line, and ride again. Everything up to Volume 4 is GOAT, but after that, one could tell the drugs took over and they were just phoning it in. Don't get me wrong, I love all the stuff Ozzy did with them, and even like the two worst albums Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die. I thought they should've changed their name when Dio took over the vocals since they were now writing songs to suit his singing, but I still enjoyed them. (Fun fact: Did you know the version of The Mob Rules that appears in the film Heavy Metal is different that the on that appears on the album with the same name?)
    As I said, I liked Born Again, but, as afar as I was concerned, that was the last good Sabbath
    album. In my opinion, they became a hollow shell of their former selves, and it was now Tony Iommi's band, and I thought he was dragging the good name through the mud. That being said, I want to hear the album Headless Cross, only because Brian May from Queen makes a guest appearance, and I'd like to hear what he contributes.

    Funny you should bring up Judas Priest, and the live album Unleashed. I knew when I saw that Rob Halford was gay as springtime. Being that my gran used to live in New York City proper, when I visited her, I used to go to Greenwich Village to buy records and clothing. I saw enough leather boys to recognize one when I saw one. I used to get my ass kicked by Priest fans all of the time for pointing out Rob Halford was gay. They would just say that it was a "Biker" look, and it was part of heavy metal, and a lot of those fans were homophobic as all get out. (Same with Queen. At least 70s Queen. A lot of people I knew, myself included turned their backs on them after The Game. We didn't know the difference between funk and disco, and we thought Another One Rides the Bus was a sell out, and they gone disco like a lot of the bands at that time) Yeah, I got punched in the face on more than one occasion for pointing out that Rob Halford and Freddie Mercury was gay. Now that everybody knows the truth, I wonder if any of those people would even admit to listening to them. Come to think of it, I wonder how many racist skinheads had a cat when Nicky Crane confessed he was gay while dying of A.I.D.S.

    Yeah, Turbo was their "Sell Out" album. They were trying to go mainstream with that. It has it's moments, though, but not their best.

    What went for Sabbath fans in your part of the world went for punk fans in my part of the world, especially the mid west. If you lived in New York, or the west coast, there was a buffer and you could find fans to hang out with and back you up, but in the midwest, you were on your own, and sometimes admitting you liked punk meant taking your life in your own hands. You could get beaten up or harassed just for wearing a Ramones, shirt. On the plus side, the scene where I came from was very strong and united, as small as it was. It had to be, because we only had each other, and we knew it was us against everybody else in society. Punk has grown and splintered into many factions. I guess I'm out of touch with the new generation, and still considered an odd ball because I still think both The Buzcocks and Discharge are great bands, and both have merit. Everybody has split apart, and factionalized, and one group of "Punks" won't associate with another group do to musical differences and styles of dress. Like I once said in a previous thread on a totally different subject matter, I was listening to punk rock when they still called it rock and roll, so all of this is silly to me. (Of course the concept of somebody listening to The Grateful Dead along with punk rock is silly to a lot of people)

    You're right about a lot of punk being a variant on heavy metal. In the early days, punk was just another form of powerpop especially influenced by The Who and Small Faces, but later on, not only did heavy metal become an influence, punk influenced heavy metal. If it weren't for Discharge and G.B.H. there would be no Venom, or Metallica. (Or even Slayer for that matter) At least Metallica wrote some decent lyrics, and avoided all that Satan stuff.
     
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  20. 1xAntifa

    1xAntifaExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 22, 2019
    Victoria, Australia Australia
    You only had to see the Village People and the cover of Unleashed to be able to put 2+2 together. The fact that Halford was a biker raised his cred in my eyes as I was going through my 1% phase at the time, after leaving the army. Helped break down my own homophobia. The Buzzcocks were a great band and should be mentioned in the same breath as Discharge etc. I don't get the factional shit either. It's natural to have musical preferences but to fight over them or matters of fashion is just plain stupid. Put it down to the intolerant arrogance of youth, when we think we know it all. I also got weird looks for listening to the Dead, Airplane or Beefheart whilst cranking out the Saints, Adverts or early Banshees.
     

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