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Spiritual Anarchism

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by thoreau_me_a_bone, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. Jack

    Jack Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    :beers: damn straight
     
  2. raindeer667

    raindeer667 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    no, from the point of view spiritual is radical...

    not in terms of being a showy type instead of being a presense not baised on a physical level of existence after all can you see my thoughts?

    not comming from an established anglo derived concept.
     
  3. skabiez

    skabiez Active Member Forum Member


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    Nov 5, 2009
     
    HAHA
    Well played.

    I really don't see what's wrong with privately practicing your own spiritual thingies - whatever they may be.
    Anarchism is a way of life. There's still room for a lot more amongst it :)
     
  4. ChokingxVictim

    ChokingxVictim Member New Member


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    shut up, this is the stupidist fucking arguement, especially amongsnt potentail allies. believe whatever the fuck you want to, as long as we all have the same views on governement, then shut the fuck up. shit
     
  5. ChokingxVictim

    ChokingxVictim Member New Member


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    does it matter what you fucking wear

    cmon WTF

    where is the unity

    for the sake of everyone

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

    /thread
     
  6. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    You must be living in some dreamworld thinking every anarchist is going to get along and never have disputes or differences.
     
  7. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisaster Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 8, 2009
     
    Right right
     
  8. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but this is bullshit. What the fuck does 'spiritual" even mean? It invokes some sort of fuzzy-minded quasi-religious belief, otherwise why not just call yourself an atheist? I have moments where things seem clearer, or the universe seems more harmonious, but I recognize that as simply the product of my mental state at that time. Belief in a supreme being is fundamentally illogical. I disagree with a lot of what Ungovernable says, but he's totally right that Anarchism is a deeply materialist ideology. This is absolutely essential, it's importance cannot be overstated. Anarchists must adopt a rational, scientific perspective.
     
  9. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    no we must'nt, its a fundamental 'theory' and u cud argue about 'ideology' till the cows come home as much as 'spirtuality' but it does not mean we are exclusive
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    No need to tell each others to shut up guys, the point of a political debate is to let others express their point of views ! Bringing up arguments is way better than telling peoples to stop talking...

    If we would ally with anybody who want to make a revolution, we'd be figiting with nationalist revolutionnaries, stalinists, anarcho-capitalists, etc...

    I doubt it would be a good idea to make a revolution with too many different ideas contradictory to each others. After the state is abolished, we'd spend much more time fighting each others with our past allies and it would give the time to the bourgeoisie to unite and become a dangerous counter-revolutionnary force.

    Even in the anarchist movement there are some schools of thoughts to exclude, and others to seriously question
     
  11. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    question but 'exlcude' anarcho ideas?, well then your asking for a fight, hmmm, if i refuse to fight you....i and diff ideas will survive huha.

    u just argued for 'argument' then argue for exclusion of certain anarchist ideals, um na thats what a mandates for, keep it simple and you won't have issue after go nowhere issue, nihilism ie: uni post modern bollix permeation ie rich guys with no worries
     
  12. NGNM85

    NGNM85 Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I don't see any point here. The rationalist or scientific perspective is merely the application of logical thought. Are you arguing against logical thought? All things that exist have observable properties which can be studied and quantified. Electromagnetism can be measured, and understood, unlike "magic." "Magic", or "supernatural", etc., in the literal context, are really just romantic words for "not real." "Spiritual" in this context, is equally dubious. Belief in a supreme being is illogical. Illogical thinking is bad thinking. Surely we have nothing to gain from abandoning reason.
     
  13. monsieur b

    monsieur b Active Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 17, 2009
     
    The respect of negative freedoms would demand that a person's private life be left alone, what group of anarchist would be able to look at themselves in the mirror saying "i'm an anarchist" and spend their time policing what people do in their private lives?
    On the other hand, are anarchism and religion philosophically contradictory? They kind of are. Anarchism comes from a continuity of enlightenment era ideas which embraced reason before all and denied the existence of any sort of God.
    However, you seem to consider God as something different than your former Mormon or Christian groups, maybe you mean something more vast, like in the metaphorical "Einsteinian" sense; I have a small problem with that because if what you say is "well I have my own definition of God" and that it's not really God you're talking about, but you're using the name as a metaphor for idunnowhat (the absolute, the universe, and so on)...and then there's little point in using the word God. Imagine a conversation where a person uses, say, the word chair to refer to a certain feeling of awe in front of the world we live in. He would say things like "when we have a unified theory of everything, we will know the mind of the Chair", and when people give weird looks, he would just say that "well, I mean something different that the usual understanding of Chair, the Chair is like, the absolute, the infinite". Except as a literary procedure, it would be a quite useless thing and it's the reason today, Christians can quote Einstein (an atheist) and think that he was on their side all along.
    About "embracing reason", a "classical" anarchist would say that you have to prove that God exists, like you would have to prove that Shanghai exists, or that the earth is round (both quite easy to demonstrate today). The problem is, there is no proof for the existence of God, and no valid argument is given either, as they have all been rebuked. Easily. And if a person says "well, it's true for me", then how is "true for you" different from "true for everybody else"? And as far as personal truths go, well it's true for the rich people that capitalism isn't oppressive at all.


    I would be inclined to say no. As far as your "feeling detached from the world" goes, I'm actually concerned it's not at all a good thing. There's nothing more than this world, the world you and me live in, if you're in prison, it doesn't matter how you feel inside or what you thing inside your own head, you're still a prisoner. Mental freedom has absolutely no impact on worldly freedom. And as a somewhat former buddhist, I would say that on should not dwell on being detached either, it is clinging nevertheless and you should give that feeling no real importance and no real value.

    Like I said before, I don't think it's a matter of choosing or believing.
     
  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    My heart lifts to know we have such an incredible amount of intellect and difference of opinion among us...when I was about 6 years old I went with my Abuelita to the Roman Catholic Cathedral in downtown Tijuana, to pay for a special mass that was said in my deceased grandfathers name every last day of the month. You should have seen this place! Specially to a 6 yr old, it was Palacial, every nook and cranny was covered in gold leaf and fantastic frescos. I already had accompanied her to mass every sunday for the past 2 years in this place and it was always a little "magical" when it was packed to the rafters with the faithful masses. On this particular visit it was strange to see the place empty, we made our way past the main alter to a little door the priests used to access it, when we got to the back there were four men sitting around a card table playing poker and drinking whiskey and smoking cuban style cigars, my grandmother aproached one of them whom I recognized as the main Priest and in hushed tones handed him the cash that was necessary for the personalized mass. This scene changed my way of thinking for ever about religion, it was ripe with corruption and deceit. And I'm glad for it.
     
  15. dwtcos

    dwtcos Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    living near Boulder (a city which produces about as many amazing and progressive things as it does ridiculous ones) iv'e had to deal with more "spirtuality not religion" bumper stickers than anybody should ever have to and i have learned that i have no idea what spirituality is. Iv'e never experienced anything remotely spiritual. my entire life has felt concrete. I became an atheist in 3rd grade after experienceing the hell that is Jesus camp and realizing how weird religion really was and my life has been entirely materialistic ever since.
     
  16. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I support 'Atheism' especially in certain areas but have met too many differant people to realise that human pyschology should not allow that you supress one over the other in the end even if my belief is diff to someelses, no i ain't from the church or anyhfng of the such or have crystals hangin outta ma pocket but is the also the reason Religion and its chattels have to go!

    or else we'll be shooting all conspiracy theorists, I Refuse
     
  17. monsieur b

    monsieur b Active Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 17, 2009
     
    Erh...no? Reason is not a religion.
     
  18. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    excuse my last post, r u talking to me? reason is not religion but it can become tyranny if it believes it is the only one.

    contsructs are also not 'belief'.
     
  19. monsieur b

    monsieur b Active Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Reason as a way to know the world, for instance, through scientific inquisition, is not a belief, as it relies on outside evidence. That's, for instance, how we know evolution takes place. Rationality might hold a certain monopoly as a tool, but it's no tyranny, reason frees, saying otherwise would be like saying that the sky is a tyranny because it holds the monopoly of rain.
     
  20. ASA

    ASA Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i agree, i'm saying if it was fundamental, we would have closed out the original organised anarchists who through brainwashing had belief leanings and darwin for that matter who brought evolution etc lto ight and i have also sed diff mandates for diff places but with basic similar guidelines no worries, i would say in places like america and iran its more important to be an athiest activist through and through as ya do with support from other places as that is alsofocuused, it is funny that a more open place where i live deals wih draconianism very quickly as our culture does not allow so they don't impose one over the other but the bigger construct as it were still imposes.

    I am thinking about diff places, diff ideas and diff times or else i would find the idea of no other ideas allowed to be dictatorial much like western aid thinkng it can solve all a places issues which more empirical places seem to fill the void one with the other as it is what they have known and seen(we do it in the pacific but fiji dictator can jump a fuck), doesn't work unless it imposes without impunity and we have learnt we can say 'NO'.
     
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