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Spiritual Anarchism

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by thoreau_me_a_bone, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    Now I know this is a touchy subject. But it seems like it will make for a good discussion. So here's the deal...

    I was raised in a moderately liberal family (hippie mom, canadian dad). Though my dad claimed he was a baptist and didn't let me "use the lords name in vein" he never went to church in the 19 years I knew him. But my mom would take me to a Christian church in Hollywood...The sign out front described it as "Progressive Christianity"...It had a gay minister, the whole nine yards.

    I loved this place as a kid. I was calmed by the sermons and had a hell of a time at sunday school, and then running around eating cookies while the adults hung out in the courtyard. (I'm sure anyone from Hollywood has seen this church, it's right off hollywood blvd in a residential neighborhood near Los Feliz elementary).

    Anyways, after I moved to the Santa Clarita Valley our neighbors talked us into having mormon missionaries come visit us, and to go to church a few times. This turned into my mom and then me converting to mormonism. By the time I was 13 I had enough of those psychos. To this day I still believe they are some of the nicest people on earth, but have the most retarded set of beliefs next to that of scientology.

    This is the same time I was getting heavily into punk rock. I spent the next few years as an agnostic or as Bill Maher calls himself a "Apatheist". I just didn't care.

    When I was 16 I started having some mental issues and my doctor recomended meditation. It was through this that I discovered zen buddhism, which I loved because it offered spiritual advancement without obedience to a deity.

    At about 19 I got hooked on heroin and rock cocaine while living in Hollyweird (for the third time). I continued my practice of zen meditation as well as I could through the drugged out haze. After a few highly traumatic situations, me almost dying, my girlfriend almost dying, getting arrested etc. I finally locked myself in the mountains to quit heroin and methadone for good.

    I went completely cold turkey which triggered some of my old mental problems and I began hallucinating very badly. I went to the hospital for a few days etc.

    Ok so, between my strange experiences with mental illness, taking psychadelics as a teenger, and having had a severe addiction to narcotics I have reached a strange spot. Somewhere in those years I began reading stuff from different faiths, just because I like to learn. But when I started reading stuff such as A course in miracles and stuff about gnosticism, deism, rosicrucianism, pantheism and so on it caught my attention.

    For some reason the acknowledgement of a higher power without any dogma or fear seemed to make a lot of sense to me. I realized that it wasn't "God" that was oppressing me, but society's forceful approach to making you believe. I realized I had a choice in the matter now. I had spent years not caring if there was or wasn't a god. I wasn't his bitch, so I did what I wanted.

    But I'd proved my point. I was no longer being pressured by anyone to be a "Christian" or whatever. Infact when most of your friends are agnostics/atheists too it's actually very embarassing to say you all of a sudden "believe in god".

    Now what I mean by god is much different than what 99% of Christians believe it is, but the metaphor or the lexicon doesn't bother me. I won't get into what I specifically believe, but there is no religion that is anywhere near it.

    Now through my multiple spiritual practices (one of which is making sure to take psychadelics atleast once a year) I have become sort of detached with the earth. I feel more free now than I did when I had a nihilist view of life. The lines about god doing the judging, and jesus saying "My kingdom is not of this world" kind of describe the way I feel. I no longer feel any allegance to any specific country or group of people or ideals. My spirit is free, so I will always be free. Even if you lock my in a 5x5 prison cell and chain me up, I will still live in anarchy.

    I believe Henry Thoreau was a deist and obviously Tolstoy was a Christian. And of course Gandhi was mainly inspired by Tolstoys "The kingdom of god is within you".

    So I'd basically like to talk about a few topics. Here they are:

    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing?

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith?

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing?

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy?


    I somehow think I'll get some good responses to this one.
     

  2. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing?
    No, I think religion is the antithesis of anarchy, but belief in and of itself is not a bad thing, which seems to be the thing you're describing.
    Just to make myself clearer my definitions:
    Religion: what everyone tells me to believe.
    Belief: what I choose to believe.

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith?
    For some it can help, for others it might be detrimental this is a personal thing and I honestly believe that I don't need faith in something that chooses not to confront me directly.

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing?
    If it ends up living your life instead of you, yes. If it is only a portion of your life, I couldn't care less, as long as no one forces it on me. Your life, your choice, you deal with it.

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy?
    Don't know, haven't met him. Don't know him or his work, to be honest.
     
  3. kaoskat

    kaoskatActive Member Forum Member


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    Nov 16, 2009
     
    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing?

    absolutely not. i diffenciate between the concepts of religion and spirituality. religion is the power/social hierarchy that is based on people's individual spirituality, and i believe these institutions hinder the ability for the individual to self-determine and manage their own personal relationship with the unknown/divine/their ancestors/whatever, and then they use that to manage people's behavior on a whole. but no, i don't believe having a faith automatically conflicts with being an anarchist.

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith?

    sure. there's atheism [essentially faith that there IS nothing there, but still a faith] and some of the zen philosophies come to mind right away. and even if you go back to christianity--the original basis was that jesus was going around telling people forget the law--love your neighbor, love god--it was the apostles that ran around like squirrels coming up with new rules to fill the void afterwards. my own spiritual base runs me up against so many of our calvinist-based laws and values so much that it merely confirms to me that anarchy and self-determination is the way to go, so yes.

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing?

    that one's tricker for me, because i think the cosmos in all its grand, sprawling glory is utterly indifferent to us, and so i mostly deal with fragments of it, and with spirits and ancestors. family gets love and respect, and they know a lot, but they're not necessarily "higher." they don't know all, and they're definitely not the boss of me. i think the problem with the belief in "higher" is that it tends to run to "you should have perfect obedience to this thing because it is higher." and i firmly believe that once you don't have the option of saying "no, i don't think i will put my son on an altar, god, dude, what sort of CRACK are you on today, go fuck with somebody else." then you're going to run into conflicts.

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy?

    i don't know enough about tolstoy's personal beliefs as a christian to actually comment on that. i do know that christianity, in the context of the era and the place he lived, was not the same thing as it is here. then again, contrary to popular believe, christianity here isn't a monolith of belief represented by insane domionist right wing evangelicals either. we have quakers, the progressives, etc.
     
  4. oneleggedpunk

    oneleggedpunkExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Nov 4, 2009
     
    1. Seeing as Anarchism as it's become, is about freedom of thought and expression i can't see anything contradictory in being spiritual. It's a personal choice and who is anyone to say your wrong, your life has lead you to this descision and if it gets you through life safe and happy then it can't be wrong.
    2. No, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference.
    3. It's your choice. Is there a higher being who knows and frankly i don't care as i will only ever find out when i die, and the here and now is far more important.
    4. I don't read, it's not that i can't it's just i have'nt got the patience to.
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
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    Tolstoi is an idiot and he is outdated. All anarchists should never base most if their ideas on the very first anarchists. It's not because they were the first that they necessery have everything right. Take proudhon for example..... who's still believing in mutuellism today?

    Gandhi, an anarchist ?? hahahaha
     
  6. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Yes, No Gods No Masters.

    No

    Yes.

    Utopian aristocrat with no sense of human nature or political science. He should have stuck to writing novels, because those are fucking excellent (not as good as Dostoyevsky, though).
     
  7. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing? nup

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith? perhaps but not necessary at all

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing? its bollix but hey, its the dogma that i refuse and the sliding down the slippery path to it, same goes for any dogma, it just causes more shit and ends up losing in the end if your a good person with nouse but realise what humans are capable of good and bad(we're only monkeys with brainzzzz), simple but true, no fun, just look at countries, some people don't even know why they belive much lie anrachy, ummm, 'who wants guns..'

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy? wasn't he a communist aha, i question that staunchly, i've sed culture forms societies and you can change that by examples that you enjoy however, alotta anarchos were basically agnostists but it was their choice, they didn't force it downya throat and same should go for others unless they see it doing damage, then step on it before it gets away as much as you can without damaging, the end means, disapate it as best can, i don't argue with christos brainwashed mofos, i'l let the athiest movement do that, focus gets results

    NG
     
  8. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 18, 2009
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    You are either a total fool, or you are bent on being negative and disagreeing with just about everything that gets posted here. Obviously everyone has some sort of faith, maybe not in god, but in themselves? Others? It is utter nonsense to suggest that having faith is a negative. Tell me you don't have faith in yourself, or your actions. If you have absolutely no faith in anything, I don't know how u haven't put a bullet in your head by now... or do u lack the faith that a gun would go off if you pulled the trigger?
     
  9. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    ah christians, stop arghuing and let them have their say, good day
     
  10. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    You're arguing semantics, I have faith the Patriots are the greatest fucking football team, and I have faith in that I hate the Washington Capitals, but that doesn't equate to a religious faith. It's obvious that the OP meant faith in a religious/spiritual sense, don't try to pull a fucking argument because you can't get that through your head.
     
  11. thoreau_me_a_bone

    thoreau_me_a_boneExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 29, 2009
     
    Jack is seriously the most stereotypical douche bag anarchist I've ever talked with. He probably has a septum piercing, thick rimmed glasses, and an Aus rotten shirt too. I dont base my beliefs off early anarchists. I just sited tolstoy because he was the best know christian anarchist...As far as old school dudes go Thoreau is far more influential to me.
     
  12. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    faith is genreally a religious sentiment but its meaning has changed, it also creates stupid shits, man did anyone get chomsky or wat, ya know linguistics
     
  13. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing?

    -No, i actually like hearing about peoples personal spiritual sides, i could pick up on somethin you know?

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith?

    -If their not detrimental to THE CAUSE

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing?

    -To sum yes, to sum no, so what are you trying to argue here?

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy?

    -Id say he was influential because people here obviously know of him and his work. He lived his life and now hes dead.
     
  14. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Thats a pretty stereotypical evaluation of an anarchist. I have an Aus Rotten shirt!
     
  15. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 1, 2009
     
    1.Do you think it's contradictory to anarchism to practice spirituality as a private, personal thing?

    I don't think so, I agree with whoever said that Jesus was about forgetting law and loving your neighboor. Which is kind of what anarchy is...

    2.Do you think that it can actually boost your anarchist beliefs to have some sort of faith?

    Unless that faith goes against it.

    3.Is CHOOSING to believe in a higher power really considered a bad thing?

    I think people play it off as some terrible deed, but it's not I don't think. Unless your an extremist who wants to kill every other religion out there.

    4.What do you think of people like Tolstoy?

    Dont know em sorry
     
  16. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 30, 2009
     
    Actually, fitted jeans, Adidas sambas, a red polo, and a "There Is Plenty To Eat Without Choosing Meat" undershirt. My rims of my glasses are small too, and the lenses themselves are a moderate size (I'm legally blind).

    No peircings either, and I just shave my head to a 2 or 3.
     
  17. GFSM

    GFSMExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Oct 25, 2009
     
    having a belief system in something immaterial doesn't make you non-anarchist. it's funny how people who supposably believe in freedom suppress these ideas often.

    religion, on the other hand, needs to DIE.

    if you don't believe in "god", you don't need to destroy the human concept of it, because it doesn't exist to you. you only need to destroy those who will manipulate the construct in their own favour. see above.
     
  18. raindeer667

    raindeer667Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 10, 2009
     
    hahaha

    anarchist is spiritual...

    very close to native state-

    spiritual isn't material nor meat bodied existence...
    I like to figure that anarchism is a very ethical in terms of moral, ideal, etc...

    but for the good of all, and infinity doesn't have any thing to do with christianity only...

    anarchists can track others and see the truely spirited, and also are able to spot the frauds.

    w/ such things like christainity... they could stab each other in the backs and still pretend to be holy and practice some polluted religion- those where able to keep the power to control those who trusted and submitted. Now, if they could register each others integrity and moral then there wouldn't be a "mother church" and men wouldn't have the lead on this planet- thanks for the truely aware.

    purple kool aid anyone??

    or some pilgrim jerky??
     
  19. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    word gsfm
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    This is RIDICULOUS

    Anarchism and marxism is a purely materialist concept, please read a little.
     
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