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some questions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bennion, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. bennion

    bennionActive Member Forum Member


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    so lately i have been getting in a lot of agruments on anarcho-communism the wars in the middle east and other such topics and i dont have answers for all of them.i would like your respones and who ever you can get to some of these quiestions

    why can anarcho-communsim work
    why is capitalism bad
    why are the wars in the middle east bad
    why is the united states oppresive
    why should we legalize abortion
    and why we need to get rid of these systems

    i know its alot but when we were agruing in class about it i could see some of the teenagers coming on my side and i could see that they were thinking about this stuff and really here in utah this is the best way to combat a lot of the shit that goes on here because if you protest or pass out flyers people get really turned off to revolution. also any links you might have would be really good to. the gsa idea has gone more underground because my parents will not sign the permission slip form so i am trying to figure out how to do it with out it being at school.

    peace love anarchy :star:
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Read. You can easily find answer to those questions everywhere on the internet. It would be way too long to answer everything in details, this is a complex subject.
     
  3. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  4. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'll attempt to answer each of these in a sentence. Note: These are mostly my opinions and not infallible facts (obviously!).

    Kropotkin revealed that cooperation is a vital part of a species existence and anarcho-communism emphasises our cooperative nature - surely it is better to have a system where we all try to help each other.

    Capitalism runs on the opposite premise - that is, it emphasises our competitive characteristics - and has property and power legitmately prioritised over humanity.

    War is pretty much always about one group forcefully imposing their will upon another and that is clearly wrong, all the more so when it is to guarantee the economic and political dominance of a far away foreign power at the expense of decent human existence.

    All states are essentially oppressive because it involves an elite imposing their will of how they think society should be run and the US is particularly oppressive because of practices such as rendition and Guantanamo Bay as well as the restrictions against radicals through the Patriot Act at home.

    The legalisation of abortion is about the right to choose - religious people have the right not to have abortions if they so wish but they should not have the right to oppress women in such a severe manner. Seriously, anti-abortionist are some of the sickest, self-interested scumbags.

    A bit vague here but I would argue that it's covered above: principles of equality, reciprocity and community are of a better quality than avarice, short-term gratification and megalomania.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
  5. ifona

    ifonaMember Forum Member


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    hi
    all i write here its just my opinion i think you shoudn't base only to someone anwsers to this questions you may look some books or articl about each subject, and try to think what is your opinion no one say that you have to copy some definitions there is some "rules" in anarchism but i think the main point is to respect other people, never put your opinion or your point of view as the only right becouse its streight way to agression to aweryone who thinks different. No one say that you have to accept abortions if you not then you are not anarchist (or maybe im wrong?) that's for exmpl. you may be against the capitalism but its not the system make people bead its just people take the easy way thay wont to comfortable live, thay focus on live from weekend to weekend etc.
    P.S. sorry for my english
    see you on woo
     
  6. Random Person From There

    Random Person From ThereExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 27, 2010
     
    Yes, these indeed need a lot of time to answer, but I'll try to do so briefly.

    Why can Anarcho-Communism work?
    This question is a bit too general, Anarcho-Communism is simply: supplying the well-being for all. The well-being of all can be achieved thanks to the technology we have at hand, what stops this "well-being of all" from being achieved are the conflicting interests of the bourgeoisie that hinder any advancement away from their poly of "money-making" and profiting off the backs of others. If we are to achieve a classless society, we can then assure that the interests of the working people will be recognized, that the most basic of needs must come first (food, shelter, water, etc.) before any luxuries are even hinted at. Moreover, Anarcho-Communism or "the final stage of 'communism'" is based on collectivization of the workplace and land, opposition to private property (not private possessions), opposition to hierarchy, and the abolishment of money or currency in favor of "Communal Storage" and the supplement of all the basic needs of people according to their "needs". These "needs" will be determined by the society, but it will surely include food, shelter, and clothing. These "needs" will also be dependent on the abundancy of the material at hand, if the amount of food is scarce then rationing will be put in place, not out of private interests or greed, but due to the necessity and the assurance of the continuing future of all.

    Some may argue that: "Suppose a person X was living in a communist/Anarcho-Communist society, following Marx's quote of 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", that person X will demand 10,000 units of diamond encrusted thrones because he 'needs' it. Will the commune then supply 10,000 units of diamond encrusted thrones to the man?"
    Of course, this is the a very foolish "criticism" which I have once seen while browsing RevLeft. This case can be taken since it will no doubt will be witnessed and asked about. A simply answer would be that 10,000 units of diamond encrusted thrones are items of luxury, of high amount of labor and skill needed to make them, and simply stupid to request such items. These thrones are of no need, will severely and negatively affect the resources of the commune, the diamonds are items of rarity and for that reason will be a stupid request since it cannot be fulfilled (that is the same as requesting a flying unicorn that shits rainbows out of its ass), and these 10,000 units of diamond do not serve any useful purpose. I can go on and on on this topic but in a nutshell we can say that production is based on abundancy and need over scarcity and profiteering.

    Personally I see no problem with Anarchist-Communist except the way it is to be achieved. Kropotkin suggested that spontaneous workers' uprising, seeing that during a revolution food which is safely kept in closed bakeries and granaries will be scarce, the workers themselves seeing this, that their families are dying of hunger will jump to aid their starving families by firstly opening the granaries to all, employing people to work the bakeries and the fields to supply the highly needed "food" to satisfy their hunger. That is basically it, the need of "bread".

    Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, etc. each have their own take on this, some claim that a vanguard of the most wise and class-aware revolutionaries are needed to guide the revolution and the working class successfully to achieve "communism" through repression of all counter-revolutionaries (relative to them), and the defense of the working class at all costs (Marxist-Leninists). But all in all, they all aim to achieve the same classless, stateless, communist society, it is the means to achieve it that differs.

    Now I have drifted off course and I am sorry for that, so I will answer your question. How or why it can work is simply to be answered with the production according to the majority as opposed to production according to profit, that is the basis and that can be fulfilled unless you claim that the well-being of all cannot be achieved. Let us not forget the many "Anarchist" communes, especially those during the short-lived Anarchist communes/societies of the Spanish Civil War and those of the Makhnovistas in Ukraine.

    Peter Kropotkin's "Conquest of Bread" is the ideal economic and social outlining of the Anarcho-Communist ideology, it is split into sections depending on the topic of Food, Need For Luxury, etc. Not only that, but it is written in layman terms, here is the book online for free:
    http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_ar ... t/toc.html


    why are the wars in the middle east bad
    Do you mean the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the Iraqi and Afghanistani wars? They're bad due to many reasons, basically it is the outreach of Imperialism of the Anglo-American countries of the West and the occupation and oppression of the people by foreign militaries. It really is relative it depends on who thinks that it is bad, is it Anarchists, Republicans, or is it Democrats?

    why is the united states oppresive
    I am sure you can think of this yourself, there have been many threads concerning this issue so I will not speak of this in depth or detail. It is the control of the government over your lives, the restriction of people from advocating or using their rights, the ignorance or voluntary sidestepping of the issue of the poor and the starving in favor of promoting the interests of the minority over the majority, the governing of your life by strangers that you do not know, have/have not voted for, and the absurdity of a government/parliament. Here are some quotes you may like:

    "The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament." -Lenin, State and Revolution (1917)

    "Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society." -Lenin, State and Revolution (1917)

    "The greatest threat to democracy is the notion that it has already been achieved."

    "In our representative democracy (or republic), the people don't have the power to decide, but they do have the power to decide who decides for them."

    "The most absurd apology for authority and law is that they serve to diminish crime. Aside from the fact that the State is itself the greatest criminal, breaking every written and natural law, stealing in the form of taxes, killing in the form of war and capital punishment, it has come to an absolute standstill in coping with crime. It has failed utterly to destroy or even minimize the horrible scourge of its own creation."


    why should we legalize abortion
    Being pro-choice means legalizing abortion, there are also threads on here concerning this issue as well as more in depth threads on Revleft. The latter achieved a consensus that abortion should be legalized till a certain time of the development of the embryo/fetus.

    Here you go "Undecided about abortion": http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=147381

    and why we need to get rid of these systems
    Very broad. It is basically what I said previously that in the current society people seek to enrich themselves and profit off of the back of others. They attempt to reach the top at the expense of all others, the cost of such action is not the least of their concerns, they tear down forests, destroy mountains, pollute the waters, and scorch the ground in order to obtain every single drop of profit from their actions. Their actions are not solely aimed at the environment, oh no, it then comes back to labor.

    Laborers is what they teach you to call wage-slaves -hired slaves- in school. The laborer works daily and devotes all his waking hours, skipping holidays and times of sickness in order to work and produce what is requested by his employer. That produce, which after endless hours of toiling in a working place and countless hours away from home, in the end does not belong to him, it will be taken, transported, exported, and distributed to be sold to other people that want what he has produced by his own hands. He is left with barely the lining, the bare minimum of what he has produced and the value of what he has produced with his own sweat called: a wage. With that wage, he can barely buy back what he has produced, of which by selling, the employer has made a hefty sum of cash to do as he wishes by simply sitting on his behind all day. He will be rationing and restricting himself from various luxuries, even education and food in order to be able to continue living without the fear of being put out on the streets and watching his family die due to lack of the basic needs while "people in England would be eating crackers made out of the wheat he produced".

    If you agree with that system, the way things are being done, then you can call yourself a Capitalist. But if you disagree and think that such a system of production is not only unjust, but atrocious, then you are rightfully a part of the Left, be you Anarchists or Communist.

    Here are some mighty fine guides and such:

    http://www.radical.org.uk/anarchism

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/making-sense- ... index.html

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/high-school-c ... index.html

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/communist-the ... index.html
     
  7. bennion

    bennionActive Member Forum Member


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    Mar 2, 2010
     
    ha ha thanks also one more thing is "well if we didnt have goverment wouldnt one person just take power anyways and put there rule over ours?
     
  8. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Again, I'm keeping this as brief as possible. First thing I'd ask them is what made them come up with such a stupid question. I would then argue that representative government is a form of power-concentration and monarchic rule is power-concentration taken to its logical conclusion. Submission to governance is what is theoretically likely to create an autocracy. Anarchy would likely include direct democratic structures; that is, a dissolution rather than a concentration of power.
     
  9. bennion

    bennionActive Member Forum Member


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    Mar 2, 2010
     
    ok thanks this clearded up alot of what i needed to know. just one more thing if anarchy or any type of it was to be achived what would the world look like?
     
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