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Socialist Healthcare

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Arjay691, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. manvsmaritoni

    manvsmaritoniActive Member Forum Member


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    its called oppressive surveillance and i cant see how an anarchist would think that kind of power would be wielded responsibly by the US. no matter how you look at it or what you believe, there is enough black and white evidence to show the US government is made up of, at least in major part, terrorists. i wish you wouldnt be so trusting.
     
  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    i'm not trusting neither the government, neither the conspirationist theories comming from the worst side of the government : right wing

    i am also strongly against nanotechnologies, but nanotechnologies isn't the new world order.

    i wish you wouldnt be so trusting with the conspiration theories ;) it's not because someone wrote it in a book that it's true...
     
  3. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Which is exactly why we as anarcho-punks need to learn how to activate our bullshit detectors, and decide for ourselves the fact from the fiction.... no side will ever be totally right, there will always be biased opinions, so we must think for ourselves.
     
  4. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 11, 2009
     
    Yeah, it's been confirmed, free healthcare has been passed into law here in America. We'll see what happens as to whether or not its legit or just a get rich quick scheme.
     
  5. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2009
     
    I find it kinda find this interesting considering Australia has had universal health care since the early 1970s; Medicare (Australia)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28Australia%29

    Medicare (Australia)

    "publicly-funded universal health care system, operated by the government authority Medicare Australia. Medicare is intended to provide affordable treatment by doctors and in public hospitals for all resident citizens and permanent residents except for those on Norfolk Island. Residents with a Medicare card can receive subsidised treatment from medical practitioners who have been issued a Medicare provider number, and fully subsidised treatment in public hospitals. Visitors from countries which have reciprocal arrangements with Australia have limited access to Medicare, as detailed below.

    The programme was introduced in 1975 as Medibank, and supplemented by a government-owned private health insurance fund in 1976. It was renamed Medicare in 1984.

    Since 1999, the public health scheme has been supplemented by a Private Health Insurance Rebate, where the government funds at least 30% of any private health insurance premium covering people eligible for Medicare. Including these rebates, Medicare is the major component of the total Commonwealth health budget, taking up about 43% of the total. The program is estimated to cost $18.3 billion in 2007-08. This figure is projected to rise by almost 4% annually in real terms over the next few years."
     
  6. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    Its not fucking free healthcare if people that dont want to take part in it have to pay. Its right in the bill, i know someones gunna come back with "oh thats conservative talk", its not, its in there and its bullshit, alas, its not socialism.
     
  7. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    [​IMG]

    Found this the other day,
    its a good larf
     
  8. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I agree, as I have pointed out before, it is not FREE, it is a insurance plan that you can buy from the government, or you can choose to buy your own health insurance from a private company. It is however affordable health care for those who can't afford to pay an outrageously priced private health insurance, and also it IS free is you are low income.
     
  9. vectoman

    vectomanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 5, 2009
     
    Umm no, that's wrong.

    Here's what happened.

    WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT

    * Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
    * Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
    * Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
    * Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
    * A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
    * Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
    * A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
    * A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1. WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011
    * Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
    * Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
    * A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
    * Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
    * Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
    * An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012

    * Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
    * An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
    * The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.
    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013
    * A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
    * The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
    * The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
    * A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014

    * State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
    * Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
    * Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
    * Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
    * Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015

    * Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2018

    * An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.

    (Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by David Alexander and Eric Beech)

    source - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
     
  10. vectoman

    vectomanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 5, 2009
     
    NOOO THE NWO IS TWAKIN OVA!!!

    sorry, I had to...
    but really, the US government isn't doing anything with the hospital or the care you receive, just how you pay for it. In other words, you don't have to worry about the government injecting you with chips and viruses and stuff like that.
     
  11. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2009
     
    Ah well if the Americans cannot or do not want to fund a universal healthcare system then I will just sit back here in Oz and have a chuckle to myself as the US further falls into the abyss.

    Get out while you still can people.

    Seriously it cannot be that difficult to fund a universal healthcare system through the yearly tax revenues collected. Allocate money to the new system from everybody's tax dollars and cut back on the military spending and NASA and stop sending $30billion to Israel as a yearly tithe and you may find that you have a public health system that works.
     
  12. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    My parents are in debt to the insurance companies. The insurance companies are against free healthcare!
     
  13. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    I haven't actually read into this subject much, so what I say next is all based off assumption, but I thought it basically makes employers have to give their employees healthcare. And I don't think it covers everyone. Also something about knocking off that whole pre existing condition bullshit. Cheaper yes, but it still seems to be making the fat cats fatter. This is my vague understanding. The bill is a ridiculous number of pages long, I'm not going to read the whole fucking thing, but I guess that's the point of it.

    It seems to me as a mix of socialism and capitalism. Everyone gets their dues taken out of their check, in order to cover more people, but in turn, the money goes to insurance companies.



    Same. After I was hospitalized in 2008 for 2 months, my parents racked up a hefty bill, which they're still struggling to pay off. We used to get harassing phone calls from health insurance companies threating to repossess everything we own and what not. Thank god I had insurance through my dad's work then, otherwise they'd be over a million dollars in debt. Even with my insurance, it's still pretty fucking expensive though.
     
  14. skulldrix

    skulldrixExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jul 9, 2011
     
    Don't see it happening. We are to retarded and socialphobic to do so, plus don't alot of people already think obama is socialists? lol

    If we had free healthcare then the master plan to kill the poor would kind of fail don't you think?
     
  15. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Isn't it supposed to start in 2012? Like I said, I'm pretty uninformed.
     
  16. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It's not socialist at all - maybe it's comparable to this european bit:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
    And the "important figures" were mostly conservatives just trying to keep the work force healthy and a bit happy while on the other hand preventing mass misery of people disabled or otherwise unable to work. Too bad that this half-hearted reformism is on the roll-back by now, the pharma-industries and the medical profession bloomed and increased the costs astronomically - but at least everybody in the country still gets a minimum medical care, even the homeless or illegal immigrants.
    there is another wickedpedia article about "solidaritätsprinzip" (principle of solidarity) too bad that it's only in german, but this principle is the base of the med- and pension-system in germoney:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarit%C3%A4tsprinzip
     
  17. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    That's more or less most political structures in todays world. I agree, it's essentially a way to keep the rich rich, and give the poor just what they need to survive, so no uprising or revolt is to take place. American politics seem to be attempting to dismantle this though, all together in favor of no social institutions. Idk if the capitalists got stupid, seeing as this actually kept them in power, even by the will of the people. I guess they're blinded by their greed. Reform kills revolution, if they're not even happy with reform, hopefully people start to realize they're on the shit end of the stick.
     
  18. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Most western political structures I should add.


    EDIT: I guess even when social institutions are eliminated, and the people get angry, corporatist systems always have the police and the military to keep the people at bay.
     
  19. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    Some of it is about restricting insurance companies from using legal loopholes to fail to pay up on claims, i.e. cut the worst excesses and get some good PR.

    But here's the key point:
    From viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3545&start=40#p17422
    This is great for insurance companies, as now everyone, including the poor, are required by law to purchase health insurance (with some subsidisation of some of the most poor).
    In a great example of doublethink, and much like the nationalisation of GM resulted in the gutting of the unionised workforce and their retirement funds, Obama has managed to enact hard out neo-liberal policies* and yet been accused of being a communist for doing so. Maybe some base of free health care might've at least give some validity to the socialist claims? A similar subsidised private health care system is kinda in place in Australia (medicare has been progressively gutted, but there are still some services), like I can see a doctor for free but can't afford the dentist (and i can only see the doctor for free cos i live in a poor area where the doctors still bulkbill, which is pretty rare).


    *That the State intervenes to ensure that profit is privatised whilst losses are socialised (GM) ain't exclusive to neoliberalism, but policy (the healthcare reform) that stipulates the market is more adept at ensuring social welfare is neoliberal orthodoxy.
     
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