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Socialist Healthcare

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by Arjay691, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 11, 2009
     
    Rumor has it that America has just voted in socialist healthcare lol, I think we do deserve free healthcare, but if you don't get the insurance, you can face jailtime. I think that's bullshit. What if you don't want the healthcare?
    Whats everybody's thoughts on this?
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Most of the americans think their healthcare system is perfect but it's one of the worst in the world, i can't believe some peoples still support that

    You should come to canada and see how our system works...

    "Socialist healthcare" like how the conservative americans like to call it has proven it's success everywhere, just look at Cuba (it's one of the only good thing the revolution has brought lol)

    But seriously, it's probably just a rumor and will never happen. Americans are too brainwashed and too blindlessly anti-communist, they see socialism threats everywhere
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    I had a funny debate with conservative americans about the health care system, it's disgusting how they refuse this system only because "they don't want to pay for other peoples"... This dude was preaching for extreme privatisation, like everything should be private even the firefighters... how funny

    http://www.punksandskins.com/viewtopic. ... 5&start=20

    (see post #12 and after on this page)
     
  4. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 11, 2009
     
    Yeh, I don't think free healthcare would be a bad thing. I just hate the fact that if you don't get it you can go to jail. Lol. I just don't trust that.
    That, to me, seems like nothing short of fascism, being forced to do something, you know.
    And I don't really understand the system of healthcare. It's something I definitely should have read up on, but never got around to it. So, I'm not exactly sure what would happen if we were to actually get this.
     
  5. badman

    badmanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jan 24, 2010
     
    I remember reading about some of the opposition to this so called "Socialist" health care system that America desperately needs. It dose just seem to be peoples negative views of socialism that have them rejecting it. Also saw some people saying it was against the constitution, the constitution was created in 1787....THINGS CHANGE!
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Probably a rumor again.

    But anyway if it's free, why would someone refuse to get it ?

    The concept of a "socialist healthcare system" is that everyone can get it without conditions, the only thing you have to do is to get a card like in canada so when you go to hospital or when you go "buy" drugs you just show your card

    Anyway, i don't understand why someone would go to jail if he refuse to get his medical assurance card for free.... Anyway he will need it the day he need to go to hospital, so it would be stupid to send him to jail for this reason

    Constitution isn't worth shit, many presidents have violated it and there are some things that are way more scandalous and anti-constitutional, like the Patriot act that was just renewed by obama
     
  7. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    First of all, its NOT SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE. Its FACISM, THE GOVERNMENT HAS A SAY IN EVERYTHING YOU DO, ITS FACISM, ITS CAPITALISM!!!

    Second, Canadas health system isnt good either, even with universal healthcare and having only 1/3 of the population of the united states.

    The whole bill is bullshit. But whats even more bullshit is most conservatives and republicans in this country are unsupportive because hes a "liberal" if obama was a republican, the whole right wing would be on his side.

    I hate that hating the government and obamas dirty ways coinside with conservatives, i hate having to explain myself that both sides fail.
     
  8. badman

    badmanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jan 24, 2010
     
    So you're saying the health care reform is a step backwards?
     
  9. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 8, 2009
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    eh ? what the fuck are you talking about ?

    Socialist healthcare is Fascism ? Are you drunk or something lol

    This is typical americanism anti-communism propaganda and disinformation, stop believing the bullshit americans are saying since the cold war.

    Typical american answer.

    Please bring up some argument, why our health care system isn't good ? Most of the peoples agree to say it's one of the best in the world. Delays are sometimes a bit long, but everything is totally free.

    How the hell do you think an health care system would work in an anarchist society ? Exactly like that.

    You will never see a republican who support socialist-like health care system

    How is revolutionizing the health care system like it never has been before "being conservative" ? Do you understand the definition of conservatism ?

    Seriously, exaplain us how a health care system where everyone can get healthcare FOR FREE is worse than the current shitty capitalist and privatised health care system ? THIS system is fascist, it is privileges over the rich peoples and the system let you die if you don't have money.
     
  11. badman

    badmanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jan 24, 2010
     
    Agree with pretty much everything in previous post ^
     
  12. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     

    I understand socialism, i just think that outside of this health care bill and everything else obama is doing isnt socialist whatsoever, its facism to me.

    Typical american answer? I have plenty of canadian friends who spent hours and hours waiting to have a scratch looked at in canada, let alone finding a good doctor.

    What you said is typical for a canadian, look at it, we have over 10 million people in this country which is way more than the canada. If people from canada are complaining about waiting for doctors, or doctor appointments i wonder what it would be like here.

    This is just one example obviously.

    The bill passed isnt going to do any good. If i have to say this bill isnt a step backwards, just a step in the wrong direction.

    I understand that conservatives wouldnt agree with anything socialistic, but if a bill of some sort was passed under a conservative leader called the "republican health reform act" or some shit, that was detrimental to US patients, they would support it. I guess i should have made that clearer.

    In an anarchist society, let me see how many doctors you can get together to help keep people from being sick. An anarchist society wouldnt have a "system" set up to capacitate millions of people i dont think. It wouldnt be possible. Maybe local doctors attending to 10 or 20 people tops.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    The french press have started releasing articles on the subject, this is funny because all of the articles i have read have said that the extreme-right have been comparing obama to hitler and fascism since the beginning because of his socialist medecine project and that it was the biggest obstacle because it made a lot of disinformation.... the USA is still strongly anti-communist and see communism/fascism in everything that is slightly leftish...

    maybe you don't get your information from the correct sources veg :p
     
  14. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     
    ok, so comparing bush to hitler was any different?

    Thats why i said i hate that me not liking obama is also attributed to conservatives. You can compare anyone to hitler. But Hitler wasnt the only douche who used fascism. Saying that what our government is doing isnt fascist is pretty ignorant.
     
  15. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 19, 2009
     

    this is an example of F A S C I S M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Bush wasn't compared to hitler because he had leftish project...

    Then explain why, i must be pretty ignorant...

    Believing and spreading the anti-communist disinformation, now THIS is fascism

    Ok i agree, the fines is stupid but his project is still great and revolutionary (historically-speaking)

    Why would you disagree to get free healthcare ?

    But i do understand a bit why he want to force peoples to get the insurance, the political positions is pretty much half-half, so if all the conservative anti-communist right-wing assholes start to boycott the system then it will just go back to the private capitalist healthcare system.... America is very divised on this subject, so if Obama want to realize his project he will have to convice peoples

    Yet you still failed to explain what's wrong with a healthcare system where everyone can get healthcare FOR FREE. You keep repeating the fascist reactionary and conservative propaganda like if you have been brainwashed by the republican party....

    If you think a healthcare system is better when the rich have privileges over the poor, a healthcare system working ON MONEY, then you are the exact definition of a capitalist supporter.......

    I'm talking about this issue on another notorious french anarchist forum, and nobody understand the reaction of americans like you... That's reactionism...
     
  17. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mar 1, 2010
     
    Off-topic: I saw this symbol on a wall yesterday while I was out spray painting anarchist websites, what is it just saw it as an avatar that one of the users that were debating with Ungovernable on punksandskins.com?

    [​IMG]


    Anyway, I'm for free hospitalization and health care with no fees and ID checks until AFTER the patient is aided, not on entry. I've had many friends die due to their serious injuries and/or being refused entry to a hospital due to lack of money or ID verification.
     
  18. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 28, 2009
     
    Okay, I see confusion from both sides here. First of all it IS NOT SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE. What it is is "reformed health care". How it works is that the government offers health insurance to everyone at a lower price than private health insurance, it IS NOT FREE. And if you do not buy it you get a fine, so it is forcing a person to buy health insurance, similar to how it is required by law to have car insurance, and if you don't you get a fine and/or go to jail.

    So my initial concern is, what if you can't afford it? And that scared me about this whole thing, I don't care if it is cheaper it is still more than I can afford. So I looked into it more, and how it works for those of us who can't afford it, is that the medicare system (free health coverage for the poor and elderly) will be expanded to cover more people.

    So for me since I am poor, my family and I will be able to get free health care (about fuckin time too). But a lot of other people will be offered cheaper health insurance than what they already get. So really it is a good thing.

    But is it a Socialist Health Care? No not at all, it is still an insurance that people have to buy, so it still costs the individual family money. A socialized health care system is paid for out of taxes (instead of wasting tax money on war). However it is a positive step in the right direction, and hopefully we can push it further until we can finally get a good system like that of Canada, or France.

    I hope that helps to clear things up a bit. If it was truly a socialist health care system I would be in a 100% agreement with Ungovernable on this one. And Veg Barb, look beyond the conservative view of the system, and you might see the benefits of a better system, which is needed. And if Presidents like Bush can shit on the constitution that effects us in a negative way, then why can't Obama do the same that would effect ALL of us in a positive way?
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    i dont know, i'm wondering the same thing

    if it's free you don't have anything to pay, after or before.... doesn't really makes a difference

    if it's free your friends will not be refused due to lack of money.... In canada if you have serious injuries a doctor can have a lawsuit for non-assistance to a person in danger if he refuse you, ID card or not.

    Yes you're right i know, i was just trying to use the typical american words...

    The articles i have read isn't talking about that, they say 938 billions will be invested to provide health care

    If you're right then it's not as good as i thought, but still it's beggining and still very surprising for a country like USA. Maybe some day you will have a healthcare system like in canada, you have to start somewhere.

    In canada you pay the insurance with your taxes, so it's very similar. What you save in the taxes you pay it on the assurance. But i still think the taxes system is better, because rich peoples who spend more will pay more insurances for others.

    Before this whole thing existed the healthcare assurances were assured by syndicates and such, and everyone had to pay to keep a fund for the peoples in need

    Everything have to be paid somewhere.

    Even if it was the government who paid it, where do you think the government money comes from ? Government isn't a private company, their money comes from the peoples.
     
  20. manvsmaritoni

    manvsmaritoniActive Member Forum Member


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    Mar 12, 2010
     
    how can any of you trust these politicians? it was already said by someone that obama kept the patriot act in effect. that is extremely fascist. so he should be looked at next to bush and hitler. politicians just talk a bunch of shit. when have they shown they care about the poor or telling the truth or acting just in anyway without hidden motives? 911? katrina? this bullshit war that serves only to make weapons and construction companies richer? something isnt right here. i think they are using the carrot on a stick method (again). i think they are going to inject people with a virus or r.f.i.d. chip or something and thats the real interest they have in providing health care. there will be no good health care system until the system cares about our health. as long as there are enough gears in the machine to keep the machine profiting the rich, and there are, they dont care how many gears suffer and break. so why then, should we care about them?
     
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