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Shutdown a Nazi Website

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by (Filipe), Dec 20, 2010.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Ok well i had this debate too many times, i lost too much time debating with morons believing in freedom of speech for those who want to destroy it and for those who spread hate, i lost too much time trying to explain that it is dangerous to let them organize and spread their hate because it can turn to a situation like in russia or others ex-urss countries where nazis are on the rise and comitting thousands of murders each year (and it's too late to fight back)

    So, i will just say one thing:
    ou818, you're a fucking idiot. Ignorant, utopist, and idealist. You don't make a revolution by giving freedom of speech to the opposite side. Study history.

    I'll only answer a couple of things, there are too much stupidity in this topic to answer everything:
    You're a fucking idiot.
    So spanish anarchists are fake anarchists, EZLN are fake, makhnovtchina was fake, all anarchists squats are fake, etc...

    Then you're just a fucking lazy scared chicken, don't pretend to be a revolutionary. And BTW, you must be fucking stupid to hack a website and get caught with today's technology.

    Study history, you're a fucking ignorant. What the fuck do you think happenned to fascists, priests, state-supporter, bourgeois and other counter-revolutionaries during spanish revolution ? What do you think happenned to stalinists and white armies during the Makhnovtchina ? What do you think happens in Chiapas to the government-supporters and other troublemakers ? And what the fuck do you think happens when a racist come to an anarchist squat ?

    So what ? A community is a community, it works the same. This forum works the same way we would manage an anarchist society.

    So in other words, since you believe in full freedom of speech, you suggest that we should accept nazis on this forum and let them talk with us ? Dumbass.

    Are you fucking kidding me ? Do you think the spanish anarchists gave freedom of speech to the fascists ? Do you really think that they didn't impose collectivism to the big landlords and other propriataries ? Do you think that they didn't impose anything when they burnt down chruches, kicked out landlords and capitalists, fought against franco supporters, etc ???



    So i will repeat what others said : this website does NOT believe in freedom of speech for hate speech, if you don't agree then just get the fuck out go fight for a freedom of speech for those you're supposed to fight ELSEWHERE. Nazis must be happy to have idiots like you so they can keep sell books like The Turner Diaries and they can keep making websites like RedWatch encouraging racist activists to physically harm (and kill) people like you and me. Fucking idiot.
    To you, fighting fascism on the streets is counter-productive, but wasting hours and hours to defend their freedom of speech on the internet is what you consider as a "productive action". How fucking ridiculous.



    "Only one thing could have broken our movement - if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality."
    (Adolf Hitler, 1933)
     
  2. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    You don't succeed in a revolution by killing people either, you do it be getting public support.

    I never said that? I don't recall the EZLN or the Anarchist catalonians preventing free speech.

    That's so irrelevant that I don't even...

    I thought when I left school, I would have been absolved of been called a chicken in that sense. What's next, are you going to DARE me to do it? I'm not scared to try and hack a fucking site that nobody gives a shit about. I just don't have the time to commit to a pointless exercise.

    I think we're having opposing views on what is aggression and what is not. On an irrelevant note, I would quite like it if you'd desist with calling me stupid and ignorant and using your colourful adjectives. It may make you look cool, but I find it simply distracting.

    Well no. This virtual. You can't apply real world rules here. You can't punish people online in the same way that oyu could in a real society. And there's no way that you can come back from an IRL 'ban'

    I would. For one, it would be entertaining if I were bored.

    I don't know why i'm being referred back to this redundant point yet again.

    Hey, fuck you pal. Is this how you treat people in real life? If that is the case, then maybe you deserve a good ass kicking.

    Oh, we're making baseless judgments on a person now, are we? I never said I counted this as a productive action, but yes your outright agression could be very counter productive. Also, if you're the sort of person that wants to build a society where speech is punished, then that's quite dangerous.

    What, and you don't think other Fascists or Authoritarian groups would have risen up? Nazi Germany formed because of a vacuum left after WWI, and the Nazi party provided people with answers to their worries. They got that amazing PUBLIC OPINION. Whomever got the public on their side in Germany would have risen to power. Even if a fascist party were 'strong' In a western Democracy, do you think they would get anywhere?
     
  3. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Wow, dude this is an emotional rollercoaster.
     
  4. sludgefuck

    sludgefuckExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    have some motherfucking sympathy you monsters. Nazis are people too
     
  5. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Dude has a point.
     
  6. sludgefuck

    sludgefuckExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I was joking...
     
  7. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sorry for the scattergun post stylings
    Fair play, tis true. However, I feel you actually made the comparison yourself, stipulating that violence against fascists was justified in Spain or against the Pinochet Junta, yet not in Russia or California. I guess I'm seek clarification on yr opinion about what conditions justify violence (or not).

    the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive...

    Seriously? The Anarchist partisans were killing people for their beliefs, that kinda prevents free speech imho. Not only fascists, they also murdered lotsa clergy.

    Unless yr like a hardcore historical materialist, this is but mere speculation (as is the Hitler quote btw).
     
  8. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    I did get that. I thought it was obvious that I was being facetious also.
     
  9. (Filipe)

    (Filipe)Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
     
  10. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    I think self defense is justifiable. What constitutes as self defense would be the real issue i guess. Well, I don't think one can be an absolutist relating to such issues. They would have to be taken on a case by case basis. I think that generally, actively killing Fascist supporters doesn't constitute as self defense.

    Of course not. In fact, I don't think a revolution is possible without armed conflict. However, without the support of the population of the area, I think the insurrection is doomed to fail without installing an even more Authoritarian state than the one you are attempting to replace.

    I think that constitutes as self defense considering it was during an uprising.

    Well it seems to me to be that way. In fact, a similar situation is happening in the United States via the Tea Party. People are looking for answers, and the only answers that are being put froward are these crazy ones. Since we're citing famous quotes, I refer to the well known quote pertaining to the indifference of good men.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I never said the opposite. But don't expect a revolution without killing people.

    Because you're an ignorant.

    Catalonian anarchists never gave free speech for the fascists, for the chruch or for any state supporter. There was no freedom of speech for traditional political partys, no freedom of speech for franco party, etc...

    As for the EZLN, there are no freedom of speech for the propagandist of the state, for the paramilitaries, etc... Do you really think they would allow nazis to express themselves on the autonomous municipalities in Chiapas ? Get back to reality. Read more.

    Oh look now you're going to say that everything i say is irrevelant. You're exactly like NGNM85, actually i think you may be the same person. Actually, you have the exact same arguments, you use the same words, you act the same way, ....

    No it's not irrevelant. You pretend that anarchists who are against hate speech are fake anarchists, so i'm saying makhnovtchina and anarchist squats are all fake.

    Thats not pointless, you're just a fucking idiot. Nazis organize around these websites, nazi use them as propaganda tools, they get millions of visits. It's a propaganda tool to target and to shut down, just likt the other ways nazis organize.

    Fascism is constant aggression, oppression, and a constant threat to freedom.

    People like you who want to wait until the fascists aggress us to react is exactly why germany and italy turned into fascist regimes. And it is exactly because of people like you that russia today is full of neo-nazis. People wait until they start the aggression, and once they do, it's too late.

    No. Fuck you. I saw you insult everyone on this topic, so go fuck yourself.

    So fucking what ? We are still a group of individuals organizing together. This website works the same way as an anarchist organization or an anarchist community.
    If members want you out, then you're banned. IRL, if they want you out, you're kicked out of the community. SAME THING.

    Definatly, you're the biggest idiot on this forum. GTFO.

    Because obviously you didnt understand and you keep bringing up your bullshit everywhere. Accept the points of unity, or get the fuck out.

    Yes, thats how i treat morons who defends those who i fight against, this is how i treat idiots who support freedom of speech that the nazis use to put pictures of us and our comrades on the internet to ask the boneheads to beat us. This is how i treat fuckers who gave the freedom of speech to people who let hitler take the power without doing anything, and the people who preached freedom of speech that the russian neo-nazis used to be so strong and organized today. Fuck you. YOU deserve an ass kicking for helping them.

    Nothing is dangerous in punishing HATE SPEECH. This is what anarchists are fighting against and this is the exact opposite of anarchism

    What do you expect ? An anarchist society where the nazis can make "white pride world wide" march in the middle of a black community ??? A society where catholics can make "god hate fags" protests in the middle of a gay community ??? Then THIS IS very dangerous, and i DON'T want to live in this society.

    So what? The point is still the same : kick their ass before they get too strong and take the power.

    Wow you're kidding me ? You probably never fought a single nazi, you don't know how big the problem is and what we're confronted to. Go tell the russian anarchists that nazis are people and that we must have sympathy, go tell the WWII resistance or auschwitz survivors that nazis are people too, etc...

    Hey cops are people too, so maybe we should stop throwing rocks at them and fight with flowers.
     
  12. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    there were incidents, esp. against the clergy, that were a bit overboard though... ;)
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    i give up, i already had enough with NGNM85... good luck butcher and whoever else has the patience to lose their time with someone who thinks he know all and refuse to hear anything.

    Debating with people like that is a waste of time, so unless he start conforming to the point of unity collectively voted by the members of this website, i will talk with other members and ask what to do with this case.
     
  14. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    I never said that, either.

    'I think that constitutes as self defense considering it was during an uprising.'

    No, but mentioning A nazi going into an Anarchist squat...

    DUM DUM DUM. I'm sorry Columbo, you got this mystery wrong. In fact, I have no idea whom this NGNM85 fellow is. Would you like my mane and adress to prove that i'm not bluffing? My natural hair colour, Height, Weight?

    No, i'm saying people who inhibit free speech are Authoritarian.

    Okay buddy. You think taking down a website is going to make a bit of difference?

    I have not insulted sludgefuck, because that guy is cool. Nor butcher, because he hasn't called me a dick in Spanish.

    K

    If I have broke any of these rules, I would have been banned, would I not? As i've said a million times, i'm not arguing about the rules of this site.

    Yes, the problem with Germany and the Soviet union was too much freedom of speech.

    Nothing is dangerous in punishing HATE SPEECH. This is what anarchists are fighting against and this is the exact opposite of anarchism

    If people listen to these persons, then it is obviously a failing in education.

    And offer no solution yourself? You wouldn't need to 'kick their ass' if people were seen to have a valid other choice. If that comes with having to protect oneself from attacks by these people, then fine. But you can't just be a hit squad.

    Well I was being facetious, but now that we're down that road. You think the SS guards weren't just normal people? Do read the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment then come back. It's well accepted by psychology that the Nazis in WWII were just 'normal people'. In fact, some members of Auschwitz have stated that they do not resent the Soldiers there.

    Hey, who doesn't go a bit overboard with the glergy amirite or amirite.

    I'm sure that if I were this guy, you would be very witty. I can assure you however, that I am not. I have no idea who this person is.

    Oh, so really this site should be Soviet-punk.net? I'm sorry that i'm not massaging you moderator's collective penis's over this point, but i'm not breaking any rules to my knowledge.


    HAHAHAHA well I did a search of this NGNM85 fellow and it seems like everyone who disagreed with you gets compared to him. Man, you are unreal.
     
  15. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    :o :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs: :thumbsup: :ecouteurs:
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Ok cool, so all anarchists in the history are Authoritarians.
    Spanish revolution was authoritarian, ezln is authoritarian, makhnovtchina is authoritarian, commune of paris was authoritarian, anarchists squats are authoritarians (because all of them restrained free speech for their ennemies). Thanks for opening our eyes.

    Once again, typical NGNM85 speech. Word for word.

    Trust me, if you continue the same way, it's only a question of time before you're banned from here.

    Then accept the charter, especially the part where it says that we do not believe in freedom of speech for nazis and other ennemies of freedom.

    Soviet union too much freedom of speech ? Please tell me this is a joke

    You obviously didnt understand what i was saying. I said that if hitler took the power, its because of idiots like you who allowed them to get freedom of speech until they act. And they they started to act, it was already too late.

    You're so dumb and idealist. Even in today's society we are educated against racism and theres still a lot of racism in our societies and there will always be racism.

    So in other words, you are saying we should tolerate "white pride world wide" marches inside our anarchist society, just dont listen to them ??? hahahaha what a fucking joke... I can already imagine how disgusting your society would look. On one side there would be an anarchist army fighting against fascists who want a counter-revolution like what happenned in spain, and while we fight against them and people gets killed by them, we would tolerate their supporters inside our society and we would tolerate pro-fascist protests. Nice.



    You're a fucking idiot and a waste of time, i'm done with you, you're starting to get on my nerves, fuck you you're just some sort of fascist collaborationist by defending their freedom of speech. Trust me its only a matter of time before you get banned from here.
     
  17. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I knew you would compare us to stalinists or fascists hahaha. Definatly, you're either NGNM85 himself or a clone of him.

    Yes you are.
     
  18. ou818

    ou818Experienced Member Experienced member


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    It was sarcasm. A very obvious sarcasm. Which went straight over your head.

    Right, It wasn't the fact that they killed anyone who opposed them, and commited terrorist acts, hiding them as communist acts, whilst satiating the public with answers that no others came up with. No, it wasn't that at all. If you could not tell,that was also sarcasm.

    That is because the education system is fundamentally flawed, excluding many other external factors.

    Then why do you even bother, if you believe that?

    No, you don't 'not listen to them'. You dispute their claims, if there are any and you educate people to the facts.

    See the above.

    If you are the moderating force then yes, that is possible.

    Just like the six other people you said that to, eh? all of whom were disagreeing with your opinion.

    Telling me what i'm thinking. SOUNDS VERY STALANIST TO ME OHOHOHOHO.
     
  19. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    it wasn't the people who elected adolf asshole into power - it was a scheme of ultra-conservatives and nationalists who choose "the smaller evil" to prevent germany from turning communist.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machtergreifung
    nazi-propaganda only offered/offers lies and false promises - free speech for the pied pipers?

    neighboring a "sturm" of thuggish idiots just a few blocks away i say:
    beat them where ever they show up - before they start to "clean" the area up by harrassing and hurting people and finally are used again to save the state and capitalism and prevent the real change!
     
  20. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    not really breaking them, more like arguing against them.

     
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