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Shoplifting

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by crustinbieber, May 16, 2013.

  1. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    I'm studying this shoplifting thing and sometimes I do it..
    But i heard that in some third world countries and in the eastern europe the employees have to pay for the stolen products. I guess it would really suck to shoplift if you know that you're affecting the employeed directly. Anyway, if you are dying from famine, it's still ok.

    Do you have some information about this issue?
    I'm really curious.. tell me the city, nation, and the name of the supermarket..
     

  2. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    Well my opinion on shoplifting is that i see it as theft and a shame really, not really a political act, the exploited worker who works all fucking day to make a buck so he can live loses his living, to some guy thinks he makes a change but does something much worse , not to say the same as the employee in the supermarket has to pay for all this since they are blamed for the incident,

    This form of activism is dumb in my opinion the at least people can do is boycotting and make aware of the issues.
     
  3. trancesister

    trancesisterNew Member New Member


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    May 29, 2011
     
    Shoplifting might not be an political act since it will increase surveilance and control in the end. But anyway I think it is a good way to do a shopping-discount in a society (western), where the profit goes to the hand of a few. In my country, Norway, the employee never pays for stolen items. So I guess we´re stealing from the owner of the shop, who probably got insurance. I see no shame in that as long as you´re not stealing from small private businesses. The shame, StegoSaurus, is something someone put upon you. There is no shame in trying to make a living by stealing from someone rich.

    Don't get caught!!
     
  4. janstand35

    janstand35Member New Member


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    May 3, 2013
     
    I have lifted a few items before, but I don't do it regularly. I never steal from small local businesses who have to compete with the walmarts and other big chains. Its usually from big places like walmart or giant eagle. I try instead to buy from small businesses to avoid the risk of being caught and entered into the so-called "criminal justice" system. The political impact of shoplifting is relatively small in relation to the risk involved. When the impact is a little more substantial, however... ;)
     
  5. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 7, 2009
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    Lot of people steal to make ends meet.More than few times I`ve shoplifted so that i could eat and not going to sleep hungry again.Stealing has the characteristics of fascism, ever since begining of any kind of government people were stealing from each other,stronger fom weaker,kings from peasants.Rich or poor, powerful or weak,every unemployed citizen is a thief(quote from Jean-Jacques Rousseau)Just like boys said before it depends from who you`re stealing.
     
  6. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    yes, i forgot to mention that.. never steal from small entrepreneur. Jan, I do the same thing as you, I mean, I prefer to buy something from a small shop, than stealing from a big shop, but i do both things, since I really don't have a lot of money to survive (especially when I'm travelling by hitchiking).
    It may not be a great political act, but what's the alternative? To go to work, since you need money to buy items.. and by doing this, i think that you perpetuate the sick system. And anyway, we have a sick society.. It's like, if there is an economic crisis in Romania for example, and people have no money to buy products, the owner of the shop would prefer to throw the food away, rather than giving it to the poor. In such case, i guess that stealing is perfeclty moral.
    Another way to make it up though this economic system, if you don't want to work but not to steal either, would be to busk or panhandle, but that's bad, because you're enforcing the idea of the people who give you money that they are lucky that they have that job that makes it possible for them to be able to feed themselves and give you money etc etc.
    Another way would be dumpster diving, but for me it's really hard, i tried it a couple of times, but either i found no dumpster, or they were locked and there was a security guard around.
    So shoplifting would be the best solution for me, if the clerk is not affected, and i only steal from those big corporations, that don't oblige clerks to pay for the stolen items.
     
  7. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    The Alternative is to not use the same bloody acts our enemies uses, then we are no better than them, its foolish, you give in, you can't play robin hood anymore it isn't right, we are looked on as thieves, and not revoultionary people who fights for another system

    We tell the public that we are better, still we do the same as the multinational Corporations, not to mention what i said earlier, the exploited worker is loses his/her payment when you do so.

    Yeah Shoplifting is a easy way to do political acts, and yeah i get the idea, but we look like greedy capitalists or spoiled rich kids,

    and crustinbieber, are there any help organistations who help the people of romania, if you are in need of help yourself i think you should seek help for food aswell or money or something :thumbsup:
     
  8. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    No, at the moment, when I'm at home, i don't need help from outside (my mom is buying me vegetables, so i got vegan food)
    But where are you from? Maybe in your nation the employees have to pay, but that's not the general case, i mean, here in Romania, there are some shops which don't oblige the clerks to pay for the stolen items.
    No, we don't, because we are never caught :)) so people think that we are simple customers. Anyway, when we are caught, I agree with you that we are sending the message that we are thefts, but i disagree with the first sentence. It's not foolish, atleast it's much more inteligent than supporting the system that we hate.. and yes, by working, we are supporting it.


    So in a situation in which, the corporation is exploiting a lot of poor people from third world countries, the employees don't have to pay and it's pretty easy to steal, you wouldn't do it because there is a slight chance that you may get caught and you would create the image in the people's eyes that punks are spoiled rich kids?
    It's better to go to work, and then to support the corporation, so those poor people suffer. I know that you as an individual don't make much difference, but if you do this you are directly showing that you don't believe in private property and that you can survive without being a slave.. and some people might think of it.. For me it's pretty strange to see employed ethical anarchist punks, because they just seem to do things that are against their ideology. Anyway, i think that the best thing you could do, if you have to chance, is dumpster diving..
     
  9. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    I am from denmark, we are a welfare state but the welfare state is changing because of the economical crisis, we are changing into like any other western country in crisis soon, our government are supposed to be socialists but are doing liberal politics, the left wing of denamrk are raging at our government calling them class traitors and stuff like that, people are going to vote liberals with the next election of our parlament, and it won't change anything.
     
  10. nmara

    nmaraActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 1, 2012
     
    seriously who the fuck pays for anything anymore...
     
  11. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 16, 2012
     
    Generally speaking, and with the exception of selling products that an individual created using materials they secured themselves, all products use material that has been harvested from the finite stockpile of resources that is part of the global inheritance. I have yet to receive payment nor did I agree to the harvest of those materials therefore all products, save those created in the stated exception, are manufactured from stolen resources and in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases the labour used to produce them has been coerced through physical or economic servitude.
     
  12. morethanfights

    morethanfightsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 10, 2012
     
    on a different but kinda related note, i used to work in a restaurant for 6 years, and when kids think they are cool by skipping out on your the check, that came outta our pockets. just get a job, or if you want food stamps, then you wont have to go to sleep hungry, problem solved.
     
  13. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 11, 2011
     Mexico

    [​IMG]
     
  14. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 11, 2011
     Mexico
    I hate it when memes i take (some people would use the world steal or stealing) are taken back or no longer available to me or us....i probably should have made a copy of them you know (copy + paste) but in some places they call that stealing and try to stop people from copying and pasting digital data :/

    If you need something and no one else is using it or uses it, take it and use it, and when your done with it, let someone else take it or use it if they need to.

    for example... land and houses or buildings not being used, or shoes, clothing, and food...

    Someone once said "property is theft"...
     
  15. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
  16. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    yes, property is theft.. But first, we should ask ourselves.. how did the idea of property begin?
    And another thing, how can the property be a moral thing?
    I mean, if you live in an ideal society, in which all the people share all the things ( like food, houses, beds etc) and you could go everywhere and take as much as you want.. but maybe you need the confort to know that you have those bananas in that crate at your disposal.
    And you would consume from the public things anywya, but you just take something to be just yours, and you let everyone to have enough, with the condition not to touch your things.. maybe you build a hut, and a fence around it. In these conditions, is the property a moral thing?
     
  17. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    well, collectivizing stuff is a very important ideal for an anarcho communist society, or a collectvist one, it's not like you arn't allowed to own your own stuff it's just that i think what proudhon ment was that privatizing land and claim it to be your own is wrong and it should be shared with a community, sharing is caring, and caring= socialism and Anarchism.
     
  18. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    yes, as long as there is enough for everyone, it's ok to own some stuff.. in an anarchist society (or libertarian socialist) i would like to have my own house, to know that i won't find anyone sleeping in my bed, but if there will be someone in need, i would invite him in my home.

    And when you own a great amount of land and you don't use it, knowing that there are people who are starving because they have no land, then it's perfectly ok to squat it.
    And therefore shoplifting it's ok too, because if you need something, you shall take it.. i don't remember if i said before, but I'm convinced that, if there would be a very hard econimic crisis, the owners and farmers would prefer to throw the edible food away, than to give it to the poor, because they want to keep the prices high. It's funny, because in this situation, the people who are skilled in dumpster diving will be the next bourgeois
     
  19. Rebellious twit

    Rebellious twitExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Jul 21, 2012
     
    This is where i disagree with you, we havn't reached that stage yet, people are still getting suppressed by shoplifting, i still use the same argument as before, as long as the rich doesn't make any money neither does the worker, as i said before there is other ways of protesting use these methods and make people aware of the situation and who you stand for :ecouteurs:
     
  20. crustinbieber

    crustinbieberMember Forum Member


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    Nov 13, 2012
     
    I got the point.. but even if you buy from a small shop, i know that you help an entrepreneur, but you're still perpetuating the system. First, you need money,and you have to work for those money, second, usually the products are made by a big corporation, so you dirrectly support it financially.
    If you buy vegetables from small farmers, then it's ok, but you still perpetuate the system by using money.


    So, let's summarize out main arguments
    shoplifting is bad:
    -it makes us look like greedy capitalists, or spoiled rich kids
    -the clerk has to pay for the stolen items
    -it increses surveillence

    I agree with you, the society see shoplifting as a bad thing, but if we act like some good customers, we tell the people that even we, as anarchists, think that shops are a good, ethical correctly thing. So we're strenghtening this idea in their heads.. They believe that squatting is bad but we still do it, because we don't believe in private property. We can't look good in their eyes, because we have an antagonistic philosophy.
    When the clerk has to pay it really sucks, i wouldn't steal in such a situation, but when the clerk doesn't have to pay, the argument fails.
    If they increase surveillence, they know that they have to defend themselves,, and that the society is not obedient. They fear of something. Anytime when you do a crime, the state will try to stop you, by increasing surveillence, the number of police, by repression etc, but you can't control it, it's just a by product of your activity.