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Ripping my hair out.

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by JesusCrust, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    This is another small, and rather useless call for backup

    I usually don't sweat this small shit, but the facebook group "anarchism" recently has had a little "in fighting" amongst Syndicalists, and "AnCaps"
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/NoRulers

    These Ayn Rand mother fuckers believe that "Anarchism" as of it's self is anarcho-capitalism, and anarcho-communism is an oxymoron.
    Some of them actually had the gull to create another "Anarchy" page where as they denounce syndicalism, and call AnCap, true Anarchism

    "The Marxist is caving in
    Keep the Pressure on, We'll show them what Real Anarchism Means"
    this group can be found here:
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/AbsolutelyNoRulers

    Now usually I let this shit pass, but they obviously have no understanding off anarchism, and I'm afraid they'll indoctrinate, and teach newbies the wrong ideas, especially with their "new" group.



    I feel so pathetic for posting this thread :S
     

  2. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    if anything, anarcho-capitalism is the oxymoron; its the substitution of one form of oppression for another. anarcho-capitalism would be even worse than our current republican system; at least the poor currently have, at least in theory, civil rights and some minimal social safety net. I can't stand this kind of selfish anti-egalitarianism, and, having nothing better to do, I will lend my voice to the argument.
     
  3. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 11, 2010
     
    Yeah I saw that shit on the Anarchism page...I think they're letting "an"caps back on, which is fucking lame. I just kept posting that Ancaps were no comrades of mine and anarcho-capitalism is just as much an oxymoron as anarcho-nationalism (and just as stupid)..
     
  4. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Nah, let them wallow in mediocrity...these people have their heads so far up their asses that you can smell the shit dripping off them from a hundred feet away.

    Check out this genius calling Tea Party people "leftists"
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QlED2Hr5c4[/video]
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
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    This is funny because i spent a couple of hours debating with those ignorants today.... its funny that you bring up this topic... i thought about posting something on this group

    The group now got a couple of new admins, and most of them are total idiots.

    Here's an example:

    http://www.facebook.com/NoRulers/posts/201956473169890

    This 17 years old admin is a Marxist and a Trotskyst

    Here is a post by the same dude on a trotskyst forum:
    http://www.leftcom.org/tr/forum/2011-03 ... m-varriano

    This group is still full of very ignorant anarcho-capitalists, i debated a couple of hours with them and then i gave up. But what i dont understand is how they can tolerate authoritarian communists like trotskysts while, on the other side, pretending to fight against anarcho-capitalism. To me, trotskysts are even more dangerous than anarcho-capitalists.

    I'll copy what i posted in the group:
     
  6. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    i just spent an hour debating one of them. I refuted every argument and counterargument he made with a logically sound retort, but he kept making the same completely irrational argument no matter how many different ways I shot it down. I eventually got sick of the debate because it was so completely illogical and narrow-minded, which, of course, the fool took as a sign of victory due to his obviously superior intellect. I can see why you were ripping your hair out. I actually enjoy a rational debate, but their arguments make no sense and there's no convincing someone who doesn't need reality to support their opinions. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if he was just trying to piss me off by making the most ridiculous claims he could come up with
     
  7. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    trotskyists are certainly misguided, but I prefer them to "ancaps" for several reasons. For one, as trotskyists, they chose to oppose the totalitarianism of the soviets. Although they still believe in a temporary post-revolution dictatorship of the proletariat, they at least have some notion of economic and (to a certain degree) social justice. Many of them are also more supportive of civil liberties than other authoritarian marxists due to the memory of their hero's oppression at the hands of Stalin's lackeys. Anarcho-capitalists, on the other hand, seek to replace the oppressive tendencies of the state (which are at least restricted to some degree by their own laws) with the completely unrestricted oppressive tendencies of the capitalists. The minimal degree of social and economic justice that we have today, such as civil liberties, unions, welfare, public education, etc.; would be lost under a pure capitalist system. Anyone the least bit familiar with the relatively pure free market system of 19th century America should realize just how much worse it could get compared to where we are now.
     
  8. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    dunno, even if they sound a bit more conscious about the real reason for the revolution and the dangers of bolshewism - ol'leo's actions during and after the revolution and the trotzkist eternal lack of self critisism show clearly how turnskins look like - i guess the only reason they still survive is this "we opposed stalin" argument and the frantic activism of many of their functionaries - "some of your members will contact you soon" - just like jehova witnesses...
    it's almost funny how eager they are around here to bring some "structure" into the not-so-much political neighborhood net - and get send back in their corner each time they come up with the "organisation" question at a general meeting - the net is still without leadership, everything is discussed - if possible in dept - by the people involved - and the trots turn red in anger... bit like this: :ecouteurs:
     
  9. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    anarcho-capitalists, in my experience, are rather similar to other batshit crazy 'anarcho-' lunatics such as the national 'anarchists' insofar as they are good at giving an impression of having a large internets presence; generally through a small group of die hard crazies spamming their ravings incessantly everywhere. Don't worry too much, they're marginal as fuck (and deep down they know it), as crazy people tend to be, but please continue to give them shit, for the lulz.
     
  10. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    for the lolz:

    q: how many trotzkists does it take to change a light bulb
    a: both of them, tovarishch...
     
  11. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 8, 2009
     
    i don't get it companera
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    (it wasn't my idea - but gobbles (товарищ from the bad joke department...)

    but there's still the social pedagogic approach:
    what could it mean, companero?

    (and plz don't mention anything related with the sentence "don't get it" anytime soon - i'm still recovering from the last one!)
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Just spent some couple of hours having fun with the anarcho-capitalists... its funny how i totally refuted all their arguments

    to have some fun with anarcho capitalists its funny

    - post links to the anarchist FAQ where they counter all anarcho-capitalist arguments. none of them can answer anything against that
    - keep saying over and over again that we have dozens of examples of anarcho-communism in action, and force them to admit they have no example of anarcho-capitalism in action
    - keep remembering everyone that the origins of anarchism and the first philosophers are strictly anti-capitalist
    - if they complaint against being recognized inside the anarchist movement, remind them that this movement is anti-capitalist and that people against the funding principles are still fake anarchists, just like anarcho-sionists, anarcho-christians, anarcho-nationalists and anarcho-fascists


    Wtf?

    Social justice ? Civil liberties ?

    Trotsky and trotskysts murdered thousands and thousands of anarchists in USSR during makhnovtchina and kronsdadt uprising
     
  14. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    and don't forget that leo was more or less the creator of the red army, including the army's internal indoctrination and repression system and also played an important role in the rise of the tscheka and the NKWD!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
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    Canada Canada
  16. AgentOrange

    AgentOrangeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 28, 2010
     
    aaaaw... bad typo inside... :lmao:
     
  17. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 11, 2010
     
    I ended up doing a bit of arguing on that page about anarcho-capitalism, but fuck, it ended up making me too tense haha. If something like this were happening IRL, I'd keep going till the end. But on the internet, there comes a time when arguing about such things becomes pointless....at least I got my voice up there on the page. Then the admin of the page said I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch, and a ton of people said freedom = having property and making cash. :ecouteurs:
     
  18. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    for future reference, when you say we have dozens of examples of anarcho-communism in action, what are some of those examples? I'm aware of anarchist catalonia, the paris commune, and freetown christiania, but that's all i can think of off the top of my head.

    also, I would avoid painting every trotskyist with the same brush. yeah, quite a few are authoritarian nutjobs, but there's a fair number who are relatively libertarian because they take marxist theory and propaganda at face value, without detailed analysis of its faults.
     
  19. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Currently it is working in Argentina where scores of factories have been taken over by the workers...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management
     
  20. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    that is good to hear. at least somewhere in the world, workers are recognizing the failure of capitalism to provide for them and are taking relevant action. the political/economic discussion here in the states is so twisted by the far right. however, i was looking more for larger-scale anarcho-communism, because i doubt any capitalists are going to be hugely impressed by self-managing factory workers, even if they should be. it's always good to have a large amount of historical evidence to support your opinion in a debate
     
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