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Religous views

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by colton_and, Apr 16, 2010.

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  1. Protspecd

    Protspecd Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    No! NOT THE BREAKFAST! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

    They will pay dearly for this, gather up the others. This is the last time the Pagans mess with breakfast, *gun cocking sound*
     
  2. Ivanovich

    Ivanovich Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Not sure, philosophically, you can really prove anything. Fact is that, generally speaking, philosophically, the burden of proof *lies*...

    :ecouteurs: :lmao:

    Hey, you all know 'pagan' backwards is 'NAGAP', right? Nah, I dunno what that means neither, but another good reason to hate, eh?
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Oh really?

    Funny because all of the pagans on this topic pretended that there is no such thing as a pagan organization since paganism are solitary believers

    but anyway i already knew they were saying shit

    Paganism is a religion, and it's also a dogma because there are "rules" that define what is paganism and what not

    Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from. The term derives from Greek δόγμα "that which seems to one, opinion or belief"[1] and that from δοκέω (dokeo), "to think, to suppose, to imagine".[2] The plural is either dogmas or dogmata , from Greek δόγματα.

    Yep but there are no "small elements within anarchism that are racist", no one national anarchist can explain the (serious) links between anarchism and nationalism because there are not any and anarchism stands for being against nations and nationalism.


    WOW. Just WOW. You're worse than everything that was debated in this topic...

    What the fuck, this forum is filled with religious peoples who think they are anarchists...

    You should read writtings of the man behind anarcho-communism. Petr Kropotkin was one of the anarchist who critized religions the most.

    Oh yeah, pretty much like a christian worship Jesuss even if it's not a god or a muslim who worshim Mahommet even if it's not a god. So it probably makes better a christian who believe in jesus but not in god or a muslin who believe in Mahommet but not in Allah.

    How the fuck are you supposed to prove that god doesn't exist since it just... doesn't exist ??

    It's very counter-productive, not objective, and very stupid to think something exist (or can exist) until it has been proven that it doesn't exist. Mentalities like that is why we believed the earth wasn't round, for centuries and centuries.
    The scientific method (followed by all anarchists and marxists) consist in not believing in something until it has been proven, not the opposite.

    Even in law terms, someone is NOT guilty until the opposite has been proven. Saying "he might be guilty because we haven't found the proof that he is not guilty or guilty" would be REALLY STUPID.
     
  4. xOutspokenx

    xOutspokenx Active Member Forum Member


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    Mar 7, 2010
     
    But see, you are wrong.

    Christians worship Jesus as he was the messenger of God, the same way in which Muslims worship Mohammed as the messenger of Allah. Buddha was not the messenger of anyone, he did not have any special 'powers' like Jesus nor did he claim to have direct contact with God as Mohammed did because there is simply no God in Buddhism.

    As I said, and will repeat, Buddha is simply put in a special position because he was the first, according to Buddhist, to reach enlightenment without being taught by anyone how to do so. He is just considered special because Buddhists claim they can learn the way to enlightenment through the study of Buddha's life. But at no stage and in no circumstance they pray to Buddha at all let alone the same way in which Christians worship Jesus.

    But then again, how can you be so certain he doesn't exist? Have you got proof to support what you say?

    You may not realise it, but you are in the same exact position to the believers that claim that God exists simply because he does, yet fail to present proof or any convicing argument to support their claim or to counteract to accusations that God doesn't exist.

    But this way of thinking of yours, is not different at all from that of Christians or believers in general. The only difference is that you just say the opposite of what they say.

    Well, already in the Middle Ages they knew the Earth was round.

    Anyway, it's just bullshit to say it is not objective. If anything it's not objective at all to just claim or hold the belief that something does not exist simply because you cannot present something doesn't exist. If you say it doesn't exist, you are required to support your claim. Burden of proof lies on whoever is making the negation.

    Wel, that is once again incorrect.

    A scientific theory, once presented with relevant evidence and argumentation, is considered to be right until proven wrong. Not the other way round.

    Take for example Newton's theories of physics. They were considered to be right, not necessarily because of the evidence and tests used by Newton to support his original hypothesis, but because there simply was no way to prove he was wrong. Which is precisely why, once Eisnten came along and corrected Newtonian physics, Newton's theories were discarded because proven incorrect.

    Exactly, someone is innocent until proven guilty. A scientific theory is considered correct until proven wrong. Someone can believe/not believe in God until proven wrong.

    So the same way in which you claim there is no God, someone can claim the oppsite and say that God does exist. Both of you will believe that until someone proves the other wrong. And as neither can prove the other wrong, I consider myself agnostic.
     
  5. Anom

    Anom Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I was talking to a friend of mine who has a belief in a christian god but not in the regular christian sense. She's never talking about it unless she gets in to a discussion about things like this, so no shoving down anyones throat. She's very much to the left and we can talk about a lot of things including politics and even religion even though we don't agree on everything (like the religious thing).
    She told me about her view on god, and said that if we were to hypothetically accept the existance of a god and that this god had created the world and the humans in it, and is watching humanity trying to tell eachother what to believe and what not to, and in different ways trying to force our believes upon eachother, it would be very angry at those who does this. This, hypothetically, sounds quite logical to me. This forcing has nothing to do with the god's message.
    She has read the bible a lot to try to find her own meaning of it and what she sees in it is a message of tolerance for eachother and also for standing up for ourselves, about rebelling against authority. Now this isn't the obvious things we see if we just read a bit of it in school cos we have to (as i have) but for her it's very clear.
    The fact that she talks about it all hypothetically makes it a bit easier for me to try to understand how she's thinking about this and even though we have very different views upon this subject we can still talk about it, discuss how it might be and why. We'll never agree on the religion but we do on other things and to her that is what her religion is about - standing up for your self but accepting others, and if she has gotten to that conclusion from religion i can't say that's so bad. Her religious believes along with her political ideas, and my anarchistic believes, often makes us act about the same about unjustices in our near environment and so, so for this i think it doesn't always have to be all bad, in all cases.
     
  6. robmarriott72

    robmarriott72 Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Wow ungovernable boy you are unbelievable, talk about ignorant and for someone who calls himself an anarchist he certianly follows many leaders by the endless anarchist quotes from lots of dead people he obviously worships.
    You know nothing of Paganism apart from maybe reading a little on the internet so i can forgive you for that, you do not understand as i tried to explain that there are no rules in Paganism or dogma, yes certian groups may follow rules themselves just like you do as an anarchist im afraid but at its source its all around you and you know what , reading your posts on here, i would much rather be associatted with all the others on here then someone so arrogant, hateful and well stupid.
    I absolutely have no love of religion,in fact anything which forces religious belief on anyone needs a kick up the arse, yes some people would call Paganism a religion (although wont force it on anyone) due to some elements worshipping nature but you cant generalise here, its something you will never understand and i am an athiest in that i dont believe in god but i am still a pagan and i follow no man made rules regarding this.

    Also you say that Paganism is dogmatic cos it has rules, again so ignorant, maybe you have read about a coven or something which may have certain structures for people to work together but again, there are 1000 different types of Paganism, and actually you going on about what an Anarchist is looks 10 times more dogmatic. And then you confirm my point about racist Anarchists, yes they are misguided just like racist Pagans.

    Maybe its beyond your comprehension that people who are interested in Anarchism also hold other ideas/beliefs and are not as narrow minded as you, im sure im gonna get a great reply again saying im a religious wierdo or something as clever but you dont know me and as i explained, im an athiest, if this doesnt fit into your blinkered view of seeing things then i feel sorry for you

    I have also spent 20 years involved in helping Anarchist community centres, hunt sabbing and other direct action, anti fascist action, squatting and anti war projects (and i dont mean marches) so to be honest getting stick from an internet warrior who likes to read a few books which he then takes for gospel dont bother me. Ive also been involved in the Anarcho punk scene for 20 years and realise that if everyone was the same ie- followed some sort of Anarchist dogma that you seem to live by then such things like our Radical social centres would fall apart within a month, thanks to the great diversity in these places which welcome people from all walks of life it grows without pointless slogans but people working together, the way i see it is you want division or your own little army or something, good luck to you, we will carry on doing the real work
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    ahahahahahahahha

    my point of view has nothing to do with christians or something like that. IT'S CALLED SCIENCE. Scientific method. That's the analys of any true anarchist or communist.

    Believing that god doesn't exist isn't a cult it's just common sense. Where is he if god really exist ? Look at all the war, povrety, hunger, dude even Jerusalem is at fucking war since years and years. God doesn't exist or he would do something about it. How can you think some stupid stories that supposedly happenned 2010 YEARS AGO can be true ?? If you would find a stupid book that date from 2000 years ago would you believe the crap in it ?? that's crazy

    And again, common sense is NOT BELIEVING until the evidence has been proven , not the opposite

    and even if god existed, we would need to get rid of him like Bakunin said. Another reason to deny his existence.

    And everything that the religion pretend is false and as the years go more and more religious theories are destroyed by SCIENCE

    Science proved that humans are issued from darwin's evolution, not from god's creation
    science proved that the universe started with a Big Bang not from god's creation
    etc...

    Because science had to prove that the earth was round smartass, or else we would still believe that it isn't because of stupid religion.

    HOW THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO PROVE THAT SOMETHING DOESN'T EXIST ???? That's fucking stupid.

    Hey dude, i know a martian who lives on planet earth, i also saw Jesus himself who was resurredted in 2010 !!!! What you don't believe me ??? PROVE THAT IT DOESN'T EXIST !!!

    Yes that's definatly not objective, i'd even say that it's retarded.

    Your way of thinking has nothing to do with anarchism.

    The existence of god has never been proven scientifically, that's stupid. Religion is not science.

    You really didn't understand what i was trying to prove.

    AND ONCE AGAIN RELIGION IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC THEORY, nothing has been proven. Most of the things that religion says has been PROVEN WRONG. The only thing that remains is the existence of god AND YOU CAN'T PROVE IT DOESN'T EXIST.

    You're just another stupid brainwashed person by the education of religion, and you don't even realize it's just because of your origins. Why believe in the god like all occidental does ?? There are theories about hundreds of different gods, why are you persuaded that only 1 of them is the true one ?? You're brainwashed.



    But do you realize how many wars was started in the name of religions ?? This make the "tolerance" message pretty shitty. Also today most of the evil politicians use religions to back their politics on. Georges W Bush was a great example.

    The vatican is the biggest bourgeoisie in the world, there is no way you can support this bullshit and pretend to be an anarchist. Christian chruch is against homosexuality, where is the tolerance ???




    You're a fucking idiot, i'm an anarchist synthesis, i back up what i think with quotes i have read and not the opposite. I disagree with a lot of anarchist theoricians and i don't worship any of them. It's just normal that i back up my thoughts with serious anarchists when you think i'm a fascist because of what i think.

    what the fuck does it change if these theoricians are dead since a couple of years ?? Religions were the same when they lived, same with capitalism. Their ideas are still valueable even today. The years change nothing of what they have accomplished. You think we should forget everything they have said and accomplished just because they are dead, well that's fucking pathetic. You pretend to be an anarchist but you don't care about the pionneers and the activists who, in a single day, done more than you in your whole life?? Well YOU are the internet warrior

    And you know nothing of anarchism. You're not an anarchist, you're a mindless brainwashed religious person.

    Religion is synonymous of dogma and some set of "rules" to follow. Else how can you define what is paganism and what is not ?

    No you're not an atheist, paganism is a religion.

    You might be against god but nothing more.

    lol in the same phrase you are pretending i tell peoples what an anarchist is AND YOU DO THE SAME THING by saying that racist anarchists are not true anarchists.

    Maybe "interested in anarchism" but not true anarchists.

    Shut the fuck up asshole, i'm not a fucking internet warrior, you're just too stupid to realize it's the only way i have to talk with you right now. If you think my activism is only limited to the internet you're just stupid and full of speculations and prejudices because it's far away from being the reality.

    You critize me for liking to read books then maybe you should read books on anarchism, you would be less stupid.

    Actions means nothing when you don't even understand what you are doing and what you are fighting for.

    What you would do if i would critize your religion in real life, face to face ? You would call me an internet warrior ? hahahaa

    Then why the fuck did you register on an Anarcho-punk website ?

    Speculations and bullshit.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernable Autonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    ok this debate is useless now, i wasted enough time with brainwashed religious fools.

    it isn't even a debate anymore, you're just all accusing me and insulting me because i refuse to believe in your stupid religions and gods. you can't even consider my arguments.

    i'm closing this topic, i see no point in continueing this stupid debate, none of you will not ever understand anyway.

    Keep forgetting about the science and only care about religious dogmas and spirituality and thinking it's so anarchist, i don't care. You're just acting like the christian religion has done wince 2000 years.

    And stop deforming everything i said. I repeat that someone has the right to be a pagan and no i don't plan on building an army to destroy it or some of the other bullshit that stupid members brought up in this topic. I have the right to think paganism is stupid, too. Freedom isn't only one-way. Those who critize me for not believing in paganism are not better than what they pretend to critize me.

    So i'm closing this thread, it's not a debate it's just insults and accusing me of being a fascist or a dogmatic because of my ideas, instead of considering my arguments. Most of you don't even read what i post, the others aren't trying to understand it.

    Anyway i think everyone had the time to express their views and arguments, now most of you just ran out of arguments.

    The only thing that is clear is that Anarcho-punk.net's official positions says that this is not the place for religious bullshit, and religion include paganism. So please keep your religious bullshit for some other place to avoid further useless debates like this one.
     
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