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Rape is rape, right?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ryan1980, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    And I don't see how the person generalizing and rationalizing an image of rape with:

    makes anything ok either so whats your point? o_O
     
  2. angieeeeeee85

    angieeeeeee85Member Forum Member


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    Can't defend myself? Wow. I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU, I don't agree with the image and no it shouldnt be on an anarchist website. All I'm saying is neither all the other shit I stated before. You can get shirts from websites on here that can be as equally offensive why is this rape one the only one that should not be allowed? This has nothing to do with my picture and the way I personally dress. I didn't say everyone on here has to dress that way, all I said is alot of people happen to. And when I said 'get over it', I meant your pissy attitude not the fuckin image.
     
  3. angieeeeeee85

    angieeeeeee85Member Forum Member


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    all I was trying to say is not that people are fashion slaves and this is all about a fashion or whatever you may be trying to twist my words into. But I'm saying if you're going to get mad at this particular image and find it offensive and believe it shouldnt be on an anarchist site then what differentiates this offensive image from all the other ones that come out of sites connected to this one? agree its offensive, all I'm saying is whats the difference?
     
  4. angieeeeeee85

    angieeeeeee85Member Forum Member


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    I agree
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I didn't have a 'pissy' attitude until you had a condescending comment ^. I called bullshit because what you stated was clearly a rationalization regardless of what other images are available, we weren't talking about other images, we are talking about this specific one.

    And as far as:

    you can read , right?

     
  6. angieeeeeee85

    angieeeeeee85Member Forum Member


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    Well I admit that was my bad, I'm sorry I miss read that. But what I'm trying to say is if you're going to get offended about one offense image/topic, why not get offended by all of them? What is the difference between rape being 'promoted' on a t-shirt, than violence, murder, sucide, war, etc...? I'm not saying this image isn't offensive (I happen to think its funny and just a joke but I could understand why someone would take it offensively) I'm just asking the simple question, what is the difference?
     
  7. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Again, and for the last time, we're not talking about those other images in this topic, if you can't understand that it is one issue at a time, then fuck it, lets just keep the image because of the hypocrisy of allowing the other images of suicide, murder, and war.

    That's great, I'm glad the image amuses you.
     
  8. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I don't think even the police deserve to be raped. Rape is not right ever. So I think the T Shirt should stop being sold. Suicide is a choice. Rape is not a choice. Murder happens and is over. War T Shirts is never okay, except if they are anti-war. Rape is the worst because it leaves the victim scarred for life and leaves them in depression for life.
     
  9. angieeeeeee85

    angieeeeeee85Member Forum Member


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    That's really stupid. If you're going to get offended/argue the offensiveness about one image, what makes any other different?
     
  10. Iztok67

    Iztok67Member New Member


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    Rape is wrong. Raping policeman is also wrong. If we agree on that then answer shoud be obvious.
    Is somebody here promoting raping of policeman? I am asking becouse thise shirt does (as joke but still).


    I apologise for my english, it is not my native language.
     
  11. Grit

    GritNew Member New Member


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    Generally I believe that denying any form of information, art, or opinion the right to be seen by everyone is bull shit. We should right to pursue knowledge, no matter how fucked up the subject matter is, but I also see how a person who has been in a traumatic situation might have some bad flash backs. Maybe you could put a NSFW section or something along those lines.
     
  12. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    won't help with the point I strongly agree with:
    because we create no safe space for victims by selling the shirt out to the public.

    Freedom of arts is a fine idea, similiar to freedom of speech - but both have limits if they collide with basic human rights.
     
  13. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    This is called redundancy...
     
  15. The Grinning Bandit

    The Grinning BanditNew Member New Member


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    I haven't read through this entire debate, but I personally think the imagery of rape is pretty disgusting no matter what the scenario. Although violence is an awful thing, there are all sorts of situations in which it could be justified - particularly in self-defense against aggressive, armed assailants such as Nazis and cops, who tend to be the target of plenty of violent anarchist slogans and jokes.

    As for encouraging suicide, I think it bears mentioning that suicide is an action that an individual has to take of their own free will. It might be fucked up to joke about, but it isn't brutal and violent so much as it's a disdainful and disrespecting way of urging somebody to feel shame and remorse (enough that they would consider killing themselves).

    There is no justification for rape. Under any circumstances. Ever.
     
  16. Danarchy

    DanarchyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Representations of rape are not art, nor do they promote the dissemination of information or ideas, if so, would sexualized pictures of children or childen engaged in sexual acts also be acceptable provided they were shown as ART to disseminate information. Some images and ideas are not ART rather exploitation regardless of the forum or context of their presentation. We do not need physical representation of Rape to discuss the subject, I do not need to witness rape to understand the hideousness of the act.

    How does limiting the physical portrail of an idea stifle the pursuit of knowledge? Should the studies into sexually transmitted disease be continued by infecting the mentally ill or impoverished (US government), should we engage in studies on human endurance by immersing people in freezing water until they die (NAZI government) There are reasonable, ethical limits on the pursuit of knowledge.

    "While I have found many causes that I have been willing to die for, I have yet to find a cause that I am willing to kill for, though I am prepared and willing to defend myself and others by disarming opponents, I am not willing to end the opposition by killing them." I prefer to follow my life by the preceeding quote but I do acknowledge that there may come a time where active non-violence is not sufficient. Ghandi, whom I quote the most, stated after he became aware of the the true nature of the Nazis, that he had made a mistake in interpreting the Nazis and imploring Jews to use non-violent resistance. It was one of the few moments of his life where he conceeded that under some circumstances the only recourse is violent rebellion. It is hard to find the quote but I will see if I can, it has been suppressed by those not willing to accept that Ghandi would accept conditions to his concept of absolute pascifism.

    Nobody has 'free will' if they are not aware that they have another choice. Free will or the ability to choose does not imply an awareness of being posed a question or provided with an alternative. Suicide should never be encouraged or provided as a solution for any able person, rather provided as a respectful alternative to those suffering the painful debilitating degridation of terminal illness.
     
  17. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Made me smile, its a copper, init.

    But thinking deeper, nah, not good. Enjoyment from others suffering can never be a good thing, no matter who they are.
     
  18. Derek Danger

    Derek DangerExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Bullshit. Art is subjective and your scope here is too broad to be of any use.

    Again, you're talking absolutes. I agree that this shirt is offensive, but what if art which depicted rape helped to further the cause of the oppressed, increase understanding of human nature, empower the abused or disempower the rapists? You can't just say that a depiction of rape could never be useful art, that's just meaningless.

    Yes. See the "Brass Eye Special" (TV, Chris Morris, 2001), "Kids" (Film, Larry Clark, 1995), "Taxi Driver" (Film, Martin Scorsese, 1976). All of these are art of varying types, messages and effectiveness, depicting children of different ages in various sexual situations. The first makes a media and social point, the second a social one and the third is just a darn good film (although there is the "saving the unfortunate child-whore" mood which pervades the picture). Why are any of them less valid because of the choices the directors or writers have made?

    Ummm, says you.

    Maybe you don't. What about the rape scene in American History X? Isn't it moving and horrific? Isn't it valid and interesting?

    Point is, the t-shirt is "bad" because it doesn't given any of us a choice whether or not we support it. Art should be about whatever the hell people want to make it about, as long as people are given choices about how they interact with it. I agree that the t-shirt didn't afford any of us a choice, so we should be against it. Other art? Well, I say let the artists make art and let the moralists moralise.

    PS: Tell a rape-victim that they can't perform a rape scene, write a rape poem, or sing a rape song.
     
  19. iflewoverthecuckoosnest

    iflewoverthecuckoosnestActive Member Forum Member


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    Not sure where I stand on this T-Shirt. It's definitely in questionable taste, at the very least. The point is to bring down the corrupt system, not to just hypocritically perpetuate the very abuse we despise. In any case, I wouldn't wear it.
     
  20. Sailor

    SailorNew Member New Member


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    nice example. but come on, wearing a t-shirt won't change anything. it's our mind that should be changed. I don't mean we must stop crimethink (although orwell did have a point in 1984) but to start thinking differently. look, civilization has been trying to control its savage nature. well, i don't think we're better then mindless savages who kill each other for fun. if we don't change the way we think, there'll be rape, crime and stuff!
     
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