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Rape is rape, right?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ryan1980, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    [​IMG]

    I have no idea if this has been brought up before. This image is a tee you can buy at No Gods, No Masters Distro, which is linked from this site. Is this Ungov's distro(I hope not...)??
    I'm no fan of cops and the police state they uphold, but they are human and this depiction of what looks like a male officer being raped at gunpoint is a little much. What's behind this and what do you all think about it?
     

  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    That's a pretty lame shirt...as much as I agree with the sentiment the graphic is whack, yes the distro is Ungov's and it supports all the websites. We should bring it to his attention....
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Never thought this shirt would make a polemic.... Well this one isn't my art, it was sent to us from some supporter... It is just some humor illustrating the phrase "fuck the police"

    We could also say that "murder is murder" yet i'm pretty sure nobody here has anything against t-shirts or slogans saying we should kill nazis, cops, and politicians
    We have another tshirt saying "follow your leader" with an image of hitler shooting himself in the head.... Yet nobody complainted that "suicide is suicide, right?"

    Just my opinion... But if the majority of people think we should remove it i'll see what i can do. I'd have to ask the members from our other forums..
     
  4. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    I didn't think it was your artwork. There are of things no one should stand for, and rape of any sort, in any context, is one of them and shouldn't be tolerated. Suicide is personal and murder can be situationally justified. I don't think that's true for rape.

    I agree with reaching consensus in this forum & others though.
     
  5. Mike Nobody

    Mike NobodyActive Member Forum Member


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    "It isn't rape if it's dead." ~ Oderus Urungus
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Sorry but i really don't understand your point.... Killing and suicide is less evil than rape ?
     
  7. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    How are you defining evil? Suicide is a personal decision and (physically) affects one person- the one who made the decision. It isn't "morally wrong" to terminate your own life. Evil ins't present in that sense, it's your body and you can terminate it by your own will and your choice. Killing is evil, indeed, but can be justified in matters of self defense. Has anyone ever raped anyone else in self defense? It isn't this cut and dry I realize, but I would say that taking someone's sexual health and destroying it and then letting them suffer with that until their death is a bit more tortuously evil than simply killing them.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    [​IMG]
    This is encouraging suicide.

    Nobody talked about self-defense. We have t-shirts saying "a good cop is a dead cop" or "a good nazi is a dead nazi" yet nobody complainted.
     
  9. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Evil ? As in good and evil? Right or wrong is something I'm a lot more comfortable discussing..and even then it's completely subjective.

    This is an opinion, not a fact, some would argue that terminating your own life is the ultimate act of selfishness and affects all humans in your immediate circle, family, friends, lovers etc. in a way that is permanently damaging.
     
  10. ryan1980

    ryan1980Experienced Member Experienced member


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    It was encouraging but still his decision and his alone. You're right, no one brought up self defense initially, but that doesn't take away from my point.There's intent to commit violence. The cop works for the state and the state is fundamentally oppressive and violent. Nazis want an oppressive fascist state and have and will again commit acts of violence, those examples are direct threats. So its a matter of protection of self/family/community.

    I really didn't intend to bring up the concept of absolutes here, I just think the shirt's message is wrong. Any supposed "anarchist" that would willingly rape another without consent(evidenced by the gun to his head), doesn't know what anarchism is.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    And you think that the cops arent supporting what they stand for and what they work for ? You know, nobody force them to do this work....

    And once again, we could say the same thing with anarchists who encourage killings and suicide...

    Those examples are provocations. We arent encouraging violence, wether it is killing, suicide or rape..
     
  12. The Freakboi

    The FreakboiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Rape is rape, yes, but I think you're taking that graphic too seriously. All its doing is taking a popular phrase literally for comedic effect, its not promoting the rape of cops. Some things aren't supposed to have a point, and I think everyone has the right to take the piss.
     
  13. fagpunx20

    fagpunx20Active Member Forum Member


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    @Ungovernable: I think both of you are right. There is no way to end that conversation besides agreeing to disagree.
    @Freakboi: Things like this need to be took to be accounted for. You may not be affected by it but you never know when a rape victim survivor may be present and be affected by this imagery.
     
  14. Mike Nobody

    Mike NobodyActive Member Forum Member


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    You can't censor the world to accommodate everybody. LIFE is offensive. Deal with it.
     
  15. fagpunx20

    fagpunx20Active Member Forum Member


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    @Ungovernable: You should make a section of shirts for Queer Anarchism.
     
  16. fagpunx20

    fagpunx20Active Member Forum Member


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    I'm not talking about censorship but creating spaces that are safe for womyn or of any gender who has been a victim of rape. Its like saying that we should allow hate speech and on the site about race. I am not sure that is a good analogy but I hope you comprehend what I am trying to say.
     
  17. Green_Destroyed

    Green_DestroyedMember New Member


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    I agree with this.
     
  18. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I strongly agree with some respect for those unlucky victims of rape who might have an issue with the image, "at gunpoint" is just too much - even for cops, who are all bastards...
    On the other hand, we demented germans translate "fuck the..." mit "Scheiss drauf" (like: shit on it) and draft resister that I am, I spend lots of time distributing these:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Nice abstraction and the message hurts nobody... :ecouteurs:
     
  19. CiderPunkJimbo

    CiderPunkJimboMember Forum Member


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    Its a fucking joke... No one is suggesting that you go and fuck a copper (he may be enjoying it, it could be kinky, don't jump straight to the conclusion of rape... look at his face, thats a cum face haha).... I agree rape is no laughing matter but that being said its just a joke for shock tactics to show complete disregard to the police, a lot of shit is offensive and no one bats an eyelid.
     
  20. fagpunx20

    fagpunx20Active Member Forum Member


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    @CiderpunkJimbo: Honestly, I can't speak for a rape victim and don't know. However, I don't make the assumption that I know what its like and feel its important to still be conscious of these type of social dynamics. So I think its not for you to assume whats damaging to a rape victim or not. With the IE feminist collective we are always conscious of these type of social dynamics within the group to create a space that is safe. I may be wrong to apply it to this site however considering its a anarchist site and we talk about sensitive subjects, I assumed there would be more of a conscious effort to create a safe space on this site.
     
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