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Problems to be addressed

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by sociopop82, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. sociopop82

    sociopop82Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Sep 3, 2009
     
    i hear people say how communism is great and all,
    i like it as well.
    but i always hear that it will never work.
    maybe not.
    but i got a plan

    any one ever notice how all documented cases of communism, fascism, monarchy, democracy
    all act out in the same way?

    as soon a some ass hole comes around talking about "great strides'
    "personal hardships" "great gain" and self righteous bull shit!
    its time to off that mother fucker.

    world war I is one example
    people pretty much followed an individual towards a government that made all decisions
    and had the people deal completely in their own "personal hardships"

    anarchy is mostly exempt
    but opposing sides have been quarreling within since someone made the word.
    what to do about this? i dont know but people ought to recognize this rather
    than continuously preach some bullshit pipe dream from the 60's
    (which from my understanding ended up violent any way)
    thank god and or satan for peace and love!
    (hypocrites who can believe in one and not the other)
    fast foward
    present day
    same subject
    all i hear is "this system is FUCKED" "next time around we'll be cooperative gathering opportunists!"
    like it was the newest form of life EVER!
    it worked last time didnt it?
    maybe for a time but some one always finds that upper deck.
    look,
    im not saying its futile but i never hear a word about these hard truths.
    instead of the stand by etc."we'll be hobbit trees just like tolkien"
    cop-out
    let start a new from
    "we're fucked!..... now what?"
    my suggestion
    theirs a beginning and an end to everything.
    lets not make ours too painful
     

  2. miserablist

    miserablistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Well going from the Russian Revolutions as an example of how things failed. The authoritarian groupings, the Bolsheviks being the main example, used anarchist slogans such as All Power to the Soviets, Peace, Bread and Land etc.. to gain popular support. The revolutionary society was almost immediately engaged in a brutal civil war with counter revolutionary forces, the whites, assisted by foreign capitalist countries like the UK. This allowed the Bolsheviks to tighten their control over the populace and the soviets for the protection of the revolution. After the revolution they quashed with great ferocity any attempt by the workers to regain control of the revolution. The most famous example of this being the crushing of the Krondstadt uprising.
    The main reason, in my opinion, for the Bolsheviks being able to seize power in such a way was that the proletariat did not have in place the means by which it could control the revolution. This is why anarchists like myself believe that we need to foster the creation of new institutions of the class that will give the proletariat both the confidence to be able to assert itself and the ability to be able to do so effectively. This will rob authoritarian tendencies of the ability to seize centralised power as there will be no revolutionary central authority to seize.
    If you see what I mean...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    "This is why anarchists like myself believe that we need to foster the creation of new institutions of the class that will give the proletariat both the confidence to be able to assert itself and the ability to be able to do so effectively."

    Miserablist: can you give some examples of these new institutions of the class?
     
  4. miserablist

    miserablistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    Well a basic form of something that could function in the here and now and that would be a step forward would be a federation of community groups. I'm sure anyone that lives in a working class neighbourhood has some kind of group in their local area that isn't ideological but is involved trying to resist either landlords or the city/town council. In the area I was living until recently we have a residents association, most of the people in the area rent from a social housing provider, in order to be able to put pressure on the housing provider to upkeep the properties. Around the city I live in, Glasgow Scotland, there are a few of these groups. I would like to see them working together in order to strengthen one another and share experience and resources.
    Now that's quite a small thing but I would hope that by building this federation of groups it will serve as a nucleus for something larger in a revolutionary situation. Obviously it would be ideal for all the groups in the city to federate and then to link up with other towns and cities around the country and abroad.
    It's boring as fuck work when compared to rioting/direct action but it is far more likely to see long term objectives, i.e revolution, brought closer to reality.
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Administrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Excellent suggestion, I'm going to seek out such a group...In my city the new Black Panther Party is actively seeking out Anarcho-Punks and Anarcho-Syndicalists to join with them in direct action and other forms of peaceful protest so that is something I'm also going to experiment with.
     
  6. miserablist

    miserablistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Feb 11, 2010
     
    That's cool. I don't know much about the new BPP. I think in the past they were a bit odd with their politics - weren't they some kind of authoritarian leftists? Seems they are different now though if they're looking to work with anarchists. If I remember right the folk from A-Political did some work with the BPP in the 90's.
     
  7. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    Be wary. The New Black Panther Party is not related to the original. Where the original Black Panthers were anti-racist, the New party is extremely racist (especially anti-white and anti-Semitic).
    Hopefully the group you're talking about is affiliated with the old party
     
  8. Hume-Mill-Ity

    Hume-Mill-ItyMember Forum Member


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    Feb 19, 2010
     
    As an abstracted example, the growth of the FDA provides an excellent real-life allegory (not sure if this is a paradox or oxymoron) for what goes wrong with all these forms of governemnt. http://www.independent.org/newsroom/new ... newsID=142
    (The full article is also very interesting in looking at the strategies used to obtain larger rights/taking them from the people)

    Various forms of scares, helth, political etc lead to the surrender of rights and liberties and the strenghtening of the institutions' capacities, which are then not given back. Look at the evolution of authority under Stalin, his purges fuelled by fears of inside-conspiracy, then the growth of the US presidency during WWII, the ridiclous loss of all kinds of freedoms under McCarthyism, African dictatorships ruling under the idea of anti-colonial sentiment.

    Post-scare accountability and capacity reduction could have been the key in every case, but who wants to give up power?
     
  9. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    The New Black panther party is Xenophobic, but the Black Panther Party was defense, and was a victim of white peoples unfair trials(Not me Though).
    Mumia is a political prisoner who needs to be freed. He did'nt kill that officer, a corrupt cop did. Mumia is innocent, and his trial was unfair. They stripped the courtroom of all Blacks, and only whites(Not me!). and sentenced him to death for if he did kill that one cop(which he didnt). Mumia needs to be freed.
     
  10. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Most white people are racist except me im not.
     
  11. Extinction

    ExtinctionExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 1, 2009
     
    Every person on this Earth is racist to a degree. Nobody is 100% racist free, some come close, but we all hate someone or something.
     
  12. Carlos

    CarlosExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jan 1, 2010
     
    this is true, but hating someone for something doesn't necessarily make you a racist,
    and if we consider ourselves to be anarchist, then there is no room for racism. Therefore we should all be 100% Racist free

    but if you hate on someone, and it doesnt have to do with there "genetic race" or culture, then your not really being racist...i think
     
  13. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Sorry, I am, first because I'am Anarchist, second because science and my favorite magyar-jewish Lil'Apple tell me that there is no such thing as "race", third because I lived long enough with the people I was told in my youth not even to speak to. Racism is a fucking construct and easy to overcome using your brain in real life.
    And I don't even hate the "master race" - it's only their bullshit history and propaganda that enrages me unlike nothing else.
    It started long before stalin, the mayor players of the bolshevik party took the stage almost too late, lenin and trotzky and their staff entered russia with the help of the german army who organized the travelling from the swiss exile to St. Petersburg - most of the revolution was already done. Problem was the lack of non-bolshevik organisation, workers and farmers held the power in their hands - and had no clue what to do with it. Anarchist writer Volin (highly recommended!) describes this situation in his book "unknown revolution" with the example that he was asked to "lead" a soldiers- and workers council in St. Petersburg - because the workers who asked him claimed that they wouldn't know how to do it themselves. Volin the Anarchist refused to take the job - the bolsheviks didn't and eagerly took over every position in question - practically taking over the revolution.
    The actual reason for the Kronstadt Uprising was the refusal of the non-bolshevik garrison to accept bolshevik members who weren't elected into the soldiers and workers council in Kronstadt but send in by the party in moscow. This resistance was so dangerous to the bolsheviks that they did everything to isolate and defame the "rebels" and after the Kronstadt garrison didn't gave in to endless threats - the bolsheviks send off trotzky to kill them.
    This mccarthy affair in the u.s. wasn't the worst time of the class struggle in north america, google for the "haymarket" affair, the "chicago five", "sacco and vanzetti" or for the history of the Anarchist Movement in the u.s. to learn: Using the fbi and police the state did everything to quench the movement - up to ordered and multiple judicial murder.
     
  14. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    The bolsheviks were just as bad as the right wings. Anarchy is peace not violence because violence is capitalist, and the bolsheviks were capitalism in disguise. Communism, capitalism, monarchy, some socialism, and fascism are the same, and Democracy is a lie. Democracy is not equal it is facist, and anti-free information that wikileaks tried to release. The cia lies to americas people(who are ignorant).
     
  15. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2010
     
    Its not america's people who are bad(its the government who lies to them that are evil).
     
  16. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I dont any other races at all I cant think of any race I hate and i dont hate any sexes. Racism isnt natural at all to anyone. Racism is ignorance.
     
  17. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Im not a racist but I hate the government.
     
  18. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hey ben, post all your stuff in one post please don't post consecutive posts. thanks.
     
  19. sludgefuck

    sludgefuckExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 18, 2010
     
  20. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 9, 2010
     
    Nice to know I'm a racist. Thanks, man. I had no idea. WYTE POWAR!!!1!

    Generalizations about a race (in this case "white people") IS racist. I'm not going to give you much shit for it, just be careful how you word things in the future.
     
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