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Politically, what do you consider yourself as?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by punkdude, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    He is not alone, i think most of the western world believes HAMAS is terrorist. I do.

    these are the questions posed that i am curious about your response too. I understand u do not wish to communicate with the poster, but they are good questions.

    -the anxietist
     
  2. GFSM

    GFSMExperienced Member Experienced member


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    actually they are good questions. if the jist was held onto, not the dogmatic literalism and the mudslinging, this thread could really take an interesting turn. a "question for our times" even, especially with the general persecution of muslims in western perception of late. the paint seems to have dried.

    amusing how the illuminati slipped in here somehow. that's a barrel of monkeys right there.

    Link K2B: i realise you didn't mean to upset me, nor was i upset. i am in fact deeply involved in certain eastern traditions, for instance the formerly shinto sect of the omoto-kyo has a strong influence on my martial arts training. i am not a believer in it's teachings as such, but understand it's use of archetypical themes and incorporate them into daily life. in a similar way as i do with anarchism politically, despite the fact that on a surface view the two might seem to contradict each other. i do not however claim to be religious or an anarchist.
     
  3. Link K2B

    Link K2BExperienced Member Experienced member


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    For the record, I'm from the UK and do not consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation, at least no more than the state of Israel itself.

    This will be a cultural difference from those in North America. In fact, there is a political party here with elected members of Parliament (the RESPECT party) that actively support and have sent aid to both Palestine and Hamas.
     
  4. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 26, 2009
     
    Hamas- Terrorist organization. Not tied to a government, uses terror tactics against Israel and its people
    Israel- Oppressive government. Uses terror tactics against Hamas and the Palestinian people.

    That's how I see the two. Different in name, similar in intent. Both are controlled by the extremists of their side and both are significant roadblocks to peace.

    @rE sIs Tanz
    As far as anarcho-Islam goes, I still need to see how non-believers fit into this. Also, how religious law is any different from the laws of a state. What you're proposing sounds like a de facto theocracy. I don't mean this as a criticism, I just need more information from you.
     
  5. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    'Anarchist' activist - non dickhead non grata
     
  6. rE sIs Tanz

    rE sIs TanzActive Member Forum Member


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    This is the only question I am going to answer.
    Non-believers do have the right to be non-believers in the Muslim society. You don't have the right to force anyone to believe.
    Islam is not based on religious laws (I think you have not read what I did write in my post before). You can compare the laws of Islam with the laws of gravity, the laws of electricity or the laws of any natural phenomen. Laws of Islam are the laws that were the basic for a proper working society. As were the laws of electricity not created by any human but explored by the human so are the laws of Islam not a product of human thinking but the codes for a society which was working like how a cloud is working within the phenomen called rain, it is doing its job to let the rain come into existence. And a Muslim society would be doing its job to let a society being in harmony with the nature of human being and the rest of nature to come into existence.

    And as for Hamas and your knowledge about Israel and Zionism.
    I really wonder what people I met at the No to NATO summit from different countries of the West had told you about your thoughts and believes on terrorism, Hamas, Israel and Zionism. Probably they would have considered you as a bunch of poor, brainwashed "idiots" who babble nonsense about anarchism.

    Zionism got nothing to do with Judaism. Zionism is the highest achieved level of racism and is the brain of capitalism.
    http://artintifada.files.wordpress.com/ ... london.jpg
    http://skyfind.files.wordpress.com/2009 ... ionism.jpg

    Israel is not an oppressive government which uses terror tactics against Hamas and the Palestinian people. Israel is an illegal state which originated by ethnic cleansing and is still doing genocide on the Paelstinian people. Its being formed process has very close ties with the being in existence of the NAZI state, the ex-3rd Reich.

    Terrorism is a phenomen very alien to Islam. It has even not an equivalent meaning in our culture, there is no word existing which could be used appropriate.
    Terror has its roots in Western culture and is today a tool being used towards any Western Hegemony opposing people and movements, and also has been put in such a light as it was the production of fundamental Islam.
    Islam does not even allow you to kill any civilians in war, in the battle when man by man fight.
    A person who kills one human is considered as a person who kills all humankind. And a person who saves the life of one human is considered as a person who saves all humankind.
    The hurting of any animal and even plant for any not vital reason is forbidden in these "relgious laws" and the killing of them is almost equal to killing a human.
    The meaning of "selam"(the greeting) is "peace". Muslims greet each other with peace when they meet. And wish each other Allah's peace to be upon them when they leave.

    I wish Allah's peace to be upon you, too, then.

    p.s.: in the Muslim society a woman is free. I really wonder what you people consider as being free. I am not a slave of any fashion. I am not a slave of any make-up style. I do not feel the need to run around half naked and expose my intimacy.
    I feel so free I cunt tell u how much! And I do not know what this other freedom is what ur talking about!
    If you mean the veil, the free choice of any individual woman counts, if she does not want to be free she can stay still a slave of the capitalised system, no woman was forced to set herself free, she was not obliged to have a veil.
    The veils of women in the early Muslim society were symbols of freedom, because women were considered as slaves of their men, but a Muslim woman was given the same social rights as were given to a Muslim man, she was a free individual.
    This was centuries before the woman was considered as a property of the state, the husband and the son in the Roman Empire. The predecessor of the contemporary Western World.
    Now they are the property of the system.
    ...and also in my eyes also you, men, are property of this system.

    Have a good day and good night.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
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    Blah blah blah

    Fuck you Ossama Bin Laden. Fuck you and your islamist propaganda.
    I have nothing more to say to a religious integrist brainwashed person like you who compare peoples against religious idiots who target civils in their activism to Bush. If you are stupid at the point of making idiotic comparaisons like that, i can do it too.

    Barricades only have two sides, and the day of revolution you won't be on my side.


    And again you are bringing up random arguments without being able to back them up.

    You can't even defend and assume your own words. This debate is useless, you are indoctrinated and closed minded.


    Fuck Allah. Fuck Mahommed. Fuck your prophet. An fuck you too.

    What a big load of bullshit.

    Women are free in most of the islamist regimes you think ? No they're not. Are they forced to wear the veil? Fuck yes they are.

    Islam respect the women ? Yeah right. That's why they use women and their sex to promise a couple of dozens of virgins women once they are dead... (probably dead as martyrs, since this religion encourage to glorify the martyr deaths)
     
  8. rE sIs Tanz

    rE sIs TanzActive Member Forum Member


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    Thank you very much for this comment.
    You think I'm going to have a conversation with such a person like you?

    Get peace with yourself first and then try to be influential on other people.
    You are so full of hate, please do not poisen other people with your hate.

    I think in Iran u must have a veil. Well, that's the law in the Islamic Republic of Iran, it is a republic, yes. It is not a state which represents Islam.

    And in most of the Muslim countries which are being controlled by the Western Imperial Powers there are serious operations to get the woman Westernized, just as you wish them to be. Like in Turkey by banning them to go to university.

    You are not even worth it to get a fuck you, u know.

    Just let out your hate....I feel sorry for you, nothing else. Not even "hate".
     
  9. rE sIs Tanz

    rE sIs TanzActive Member Forum Member


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    You are right about the first one. I am not indoctrinated. I HATE ANY KIND OF DOCTRINES!
    You're wrong about the second one.
    I AM MORE OPEN MINDED THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE SOMEONE TO BE OPEN MINDED!

    YOU ARE A RACIST AND A FASCIST
    I AM A PUNK AND AN ANARCHIST
    :ecouteurs:
     
  10. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I reject every part of this. Islamic law is bullshit. Why can't a Danish artist draw a political cartoon featuring Mohammed without people dying in consequence?
    Why are Christians killed and oppressed in Pakistan?
    Want to talk about the Dhimmi Codes? The rules that governed Jews and Christians under Muslim rule and limited their rights and legal protections?
    Ultra Orthodox Jews do oppose the state of Israel, because they think that God will return the Jews to the Holy Land once he has forgiven them. Zionism is also independent from capitalism. Do some research. The first Jews to immigrate to Israel were actually from Eastern Europe. They were largely socialists. If you get nothing else from my post, get this:

    Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people should have a homeland

    It does not necessarily mean a Jewish state, it does not necessarily even mean in the Middle East. It just means that they should have a safe place where Christians and Muslims won't kill them.
    First off... what the hell? Your invocation of Nazism is completely ridiculous. Claiming ANY link between Zionism and Nazism is ridiculous, the only connection between the two is that the Holocaust created sympathy for the Zionist cause around the world.

    Now, your claim that it was "originated by ethnic cleansing" is completely and totally 100% FALSE. Here's a quick list of reasons:
    1. Jews are not foreign invaders in Palestine. There has been a population of Jews in Palestine since they came to the land Canaan (we're talking 5,000+ years ago)
    2. The first violence in Palestine was entirely AGAINST the Jews. The local Arabs (they weren't yet referred to as Palestinians) felt threatened by the migration of Jews to Palestine so there were anti-Jewish riots.
    3. Despite this, Arabs living in Palestine were better off economically than those in the surrounding area because of the influx of educated Jews into the local economy
    4. The State of Israel was formed on land given by the U.N. (where there was already a Jewish majority), not taken by force.
    5. The civil war that Israelis call the war of independence was started by the Arabs of the region who immediately attacked the new state of Israel. Had this not occurred, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Gaza Strip would never have been taken by Israel.

    Now that I have said that, I do not consider myself "pro-Israel." Nor am I strictly "pro-Palestinian." The state of Israel has committed many atrocities, especially in the West Bank. But solely blaming one group for a two-sided conflict is short sighted and ill advised.

    I will accept that "terrorism" began in Western culture. Whether it did or not makes no difference. The word used in your culture is "jihad." It does not strictly mean "terrorism" or even "violence." I understand that you can have a non-violent jihad or even a personal, internal jihad. However, the tactics employed by Islamic radicals cannot be so easily defended.
    Under Sharia law, homosexuality is punishable by death. Justify that one to me. I can provide a list of Islamic theocratic states where that is the law if you would like.
    So do rappers. Does that make them peaceful people?

    Ok. This doesn't make sense. I know plenty of women who dress in very modest ways. No one will ever force you to dress in a way that you don't want to. Fashion is voluntary. Your point is ridiculous.
    That's really great if you feel free wrapped from head to toe in black fabric that you can't remove outside your home on pain of death. But understand that others feel differently. You should be free to dress as conservatively or provocatively as you please.
    And in my eyes, you are a slave to a long dead prophet.

    There may be parallels to the Roman Empire in contemporary Western culture, but after the Romans was Medieval Europe, then the Renaissance, then the Enlightenment, then Industrialism. The Roman Empire is in the distant past. And I will remind you that the Roman Empire included a good portion of the Middle East at one time.
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    The bigger you write, the more true is is !

    Religions have nothing to do with races, you are an idiot.

    You are not an anarchist, you are an "anarcho"-islamist.

    YOU are the anti-occidental idiot who consider anybody opposing to the radical islamist terrorism as bush-minded peoples. YOU are BinLaden-Minded.

    btw what do you think of Al-quaida ? They are as cool as the Hamas i suppose ? Or is that another question that you will refuse to answer ?
     
  12. theoldpunk

    theoldpunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yeah, but sometimes I do. What right do you have to stop me or anyone else from dressing up, making up and/or showing as much bare flesh as we want?

    Hooray for boobs, willies and flappy bits of all shapes and sizes!

    Keep your morals off of my body.

    No, you're not.

    You're a confused human being. You have a lot of issues to sort out. That's OK, you're not alone.

    But if you immerse yourself fully in anarchist ideas, if you really try to free yourself, then hopefully you'll see through the religious bullshit that's poisoning your mind and fucking up your life. Anarchist or Islamist? Your choice. But don't delude yourself that you can have it both ways.

    Good luck :)
     
  13. rE sIs Tanz

    rE sIs TanzActive Member Forum Member


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    Al-Andulus? Ever heard of it?
    Al-Andalus, parts of the Iberian Peninsula and Septimania governed by Arab and North African Muslims at various times in the period between 711 and 1492. While Jews were murdered in Portugla and all around Europe under Christian rulership they were living in peace and under the protection of Muslims in Al-Andalus.
    Which country did take the Jews that were persecuted and murdered after Al-Andalus was collapsed and gave them a home where they still do live in peace and can practise their religion?
    GO AND GET EDUCATED!!! BEFORE YOU EVER SAY EVER AGAIN ANYWHERE THAT MUSLIMS KILLED JEWS IN HISTORY!

    al-qaida and Bin Laden? You are so funny people...

    Homosexuals are punished to death? I haven't read anything of that in the Quran.

    But to be honest, if I was a man and had a penis I would never stick it into a hole where my shit drops out of and smear my organ with shit while I was having sexual intercourse, and I cannot imagine to let anyone fuck my ass, sorry!!! :ecouteurs:

    And I didn't know that there was a punk-racism: This is punk and u cannot b punk and I am the right punk and I am a better punk.

    But nevertheless thanx for the inspiration!I'll give you the link to listen to it when it is ready! :ecouteurs:


    Hey Punk!

    A world of lies and hoax
    All controlled by manipulation
    If you’re not an actor playin in their matrix
    U can be a so called terrorist
    Put off the Zion glasses
    A transparent blindfold patched on all
    I’m not short sighted- can look through
    so should u be doing too

    Hey Punk
    Show em who u r
    Hey punk
    Be a terrorist
    Hey Punk
    Spit em in their face
    Hey Punk
    Be what you are

    To hell with them and their system
    To hell with their damned system
    Just To hell with this fuckin system
    To fuckin hell with their fuckin system

    Calling us fundamentalist
    The gods of democracies
    Oppressed are oppressed anywhere
    Oppressor the same everywhere
    Put off the Zion glasses
    A transparent blindfold patched on all
    I’m not short sighted- can look through
    so should u be doing too

    Hey Punk
    Show em who u r
    Hey punk
    Be a terro rist
    Hey Punk
    Spit em in their face
    Hey Punk
    Be what you are

    To hell with them and their system
    To hell with their damned system
    Just To hell with this fuckin system
    To fuckin hell with them and their fuckin system
     
  14. rE sIs Tanz

    rE sIs TanzActive Member Forum Member


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    So, you accept that there are races, hm?
    I did not know that. You can one day explain me what those races are. I only know one "race", the human race.
    And religions have nothing to do with races? Hm..yes, this person who is a pro-Israeli and giving here false facts and considers the UN an institution to quote here in his post to defend his point of view (since when do anarchist and punk rely on the United Nations?), he or she or what gender he/she is, can surely explain us why Zionists do consider the Jewish people as a race, hm?

    There are no races but peoples. This is how we see humanity.
    And you have shown me how you "divide" us into "units". Not unities....

    Great! Keep going....
     
  15. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    your homophobia is highly unwelcomed here.

    -the anxietist
     
  16. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    You are a moron. There was a massacre of Jews living in Granada in 1066 under MUSLIM rule. That is one single example. There are many more.

    Here's my source.
    http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp? ... ch=Granada

    As to your homophobia, please take it elsewhere. I have no patience for that shit.
     
  17. DeddHedd

    DeddHeddActive Member Forum Member


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    I am a punk rocker.

    I was born poor in a third world country.

    I believe that the real future for humanity is anarchy where society is enlightened in an environment free from authority.

    The first step is unity.
     
  18. GFSM

    GFSMExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i find the comments made that all muslim women have to wear "veils" to be highly prejudice and of the highest order of ignorance. as to the homophobia, fuck you you fucking bigoted piece of shit, i'm banning you on the spot, fuck this anarchist diplomacy shit. you crossed the line.
     
  19. astrodrag666

    astrodrag666Member Forum Member


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    i think being an individual anarchist is the way to go... just do what you think is right regardless of the laws. and let other people do the same
     
  20. Link K2B

    Link K2BExperienced Member Experienced member


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    You're all fuckin embarassin yourselves. It's got to the stage where you're accusin each other of racism and homophobic and sexist and islamaphobic and sayin things that don't come far off the mark, as you're usin them to offend and cause hurt rather than constructive debate.

    You'd all do well to walk away from it.
     
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