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Politically, what do you consider yourself as?

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by punkdude, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. punkdude

    punkdudeMember New Member


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    Anarchist? Libertarian? Communist? Individualist?

    What do you consider yourself as?
     

  2. Dutchie

    DutchieActive Member Forum Member


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    Aug 29, 2009
     
    80% Communist & 20% Anarchist
    I'm too much of a realist, you can't be an anarchist for 100%
     
  3. anarkotik

    anarkotikNew Member New Member


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    100% anarchist and antifascist
     
  4. mel_the_bell

    mel_the_bellExperienced Member Experienced member


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    i class myself as an anarchist, ive always hated socialists and communists nearly as much as the nazis ive encountered :)
    Ive always been more into class war than solicialist worker or militant.

    although i think i dont fit into the anarchist catagory these days either..........too much of an individualist :p
     
  5. ghost in the void

    ghost in the voidExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i'm glad you put "...i've encountered". we're trying to build a community here, not alienate someone who just posted two posts before you. and btw, i'm sure you do realise that the nazis by definition were socialist. neo-nazis on the other hand are just idiots.
     
  6. mel_the_bell

    mel_the_bellExperienced Member Experienced member


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    yeah i know the nazis came out of national socialism, and dont worry i know dutch :p

    I've always seen anarchism as real communism, as in the world Communism has NEVER worked, its always turned into depots and dictators running the country. and turned even more totalitarian.
    We're seeing that here now in the UK with Nulabour in power, old labour used to be socialist for the working man (woman) but now its completely gone the other way and turning into a police state.

    we have more and more CCTV, databases, they want id cards, more and more police checks, councils and other agencies given more and more rights to check up on us...without us knowing, bans of protests outside parliament, we cant even film soldiers and police anymore (war on terror you know)
    banning things we do (smoking.......drinkings next) then its the food we eat.

    its hard to explain my views on the socialist workers party and militant, all they ever seemed to do was hand out (sell) their papers and magazines, no matter what demo you were on (anti racist, anti poll tax, industrial, anti vivisection) thered be the same posh students stood shouting the same slogans and selling their wares which annoyed me, and then when we fought nazis in the streets you wouldnt find any there at all.
    i suppose thats what coloured my views on the rest of the left
     
  7. Munsta

    MunstaActive Member Forum Member


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    I consider myself as an anarchist.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Well first of all we must difference libertarian communism from autoritarian communism.
    Anarchist could be considered as libertarian communism. Autoritarian communism is shit and probably what "mel"' is referring to.
    I'd put marxism in another different category.

    Lots of peoples don't like what i say, but i always considered nazism and what i call red fascism (stalinism, leninism, maoism, polpotism, etc...) as being nearly the same thing.
    Same shit, same fight.

    Just Staline and Mao together killed more peoples than the nazis did. This is not a competition, and i'm not trying to say communism is worse than nazism, or to make nazism looks better than it is, but too many peoples seems to forget the attrocities commited in URSS.

    The worst is that some anarchist still haven't learn from the errors commited in the past. In history, all alliances with autoritarian communist was a DISASTER. Just think about the Commune of Paris, the first international, the Makhnovtchina in Ukraine, Petrograd and Kronsdadt massacres in URSS....
    Even Marx and Proudhon didn't like each others.
     
  9. mel_the_bell

    mel_the_bellExperienced Member Experienced member


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    looks like ive started something :D
    oops

    tbh i aint one of these anarchists that reads and reads theory books by bakunin etc, i aint an intellectual anarchist so to speak.
    im just a normal bloke (old punk) that tries to live his life as freely and as nicely as i can

    im staunchly anti facist, anti homophobic, vegetarian, anti war (although i aint a pacifist, ill try talking first but if push comes to shove i WILL shove), anti sexist etc
    i also believe in recycling etc AND SAVING THE PLANET (so to speak)
    and i believe not in preaching but i will tell people why i do something, if they take that on board then great

    im also not sure if its an anarchist trait or just stubborness but if somebody hassles me to do something, and i feel like im being pushed, hassled or cajouled against my wishes i will dig my heels in and go the other way
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Well this is a political debate forum, it's here for that!

    You should, Bakunin is excellent ^^


    Note: Just to be sure everybody understood me correctly : I am NOT anti-communist. I am radically anti-authoritarian.
     
  11. mel_the_bell

    mel_the_bellExperienced Member Experienced member


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    thought id upset rather than kickstarted a debate tho :p
     
  12. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anarchist-Communist, you could say Platformist as well.
     
  13. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Also, the nazis were not socialists at all. Socialism entails worker ownership over the means of production, the Corporatist economy of the nazis meant private ownership of property, and a capitalist way of managing the economy, as well as capitalist hierarchies within the workplace. They were also nationalists, which is the antithesis of socialism.
     
  14. anarcho-punk.net

    anarcho-punk.netAdministrator Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Actually i think hitler's party was some sort of leftish nationalism... It's contradictory, but it's really a variant of socialism since NAZI means National Socialism...

    Not really surprising to see a contradiction like that, there's already national-bolchevism, national-anarchism, anarcho-sionism, anarcho-christianism, .......
     
  15. mel_the_bell

    mel_the_bellExperienced Member Experienced member


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    yeah it was national socialism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

    it incorpororated elements of the left and right wing, theres even some right wing thinking in bakunins work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Ba ... ationalism
     
  16. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm fully aware it was called socialist, but it was all around reactionary and anti-socialist. If every party practices what they preach we would have:

    A Socialist UK (the Labour Party is a member of the Socialist International)
    A Socialist Australia (same reason)
    The Russian Liberal Democratic Party would be Lib Dems, not ultra nationalists

    It goes on and on, socialism was popular among the German working classes. The FAUD numbered around 150,000, there was a socialist revolution in 1918, and the Communist Party was one of the biggest, having its own welfare programs and clubs etc. So the Nazis, with the backing of the German bourgeoisie, appealed to this by presenting them as a workers' party to gain support amongst the working class. During the Holocaust, it was all private companies (not even worker owned) who profited off the free Jewish labor and other such evils.

    Bakunin dropped his nationalism by the time he became an anarchist.
     
  17. Jack

    JackExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Yes, but all of those are oxymoronic. NazBols are ultranationalist neo-nazis, unlike Stalinists who say Stalin didn't commit the crimes he did, the NazBols say he did.....and support that.

    National "anarchists" are neo nazi kids trying to attatch themselves to something they see as trendy or cool. Anarchism and nationalism are contraditory.

    Anarchism and religion can't be combined either, so the combinations with Zionism and Christianity are.....ludacris.
     
  18. ghost in the void

    ghost in the voidExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    this thread is starting to wander away from the OPs original question.

    but just to fan the flames a little...

    this i disagree with. it depends which form of anarchism, and which form of religion in question. not all religions advocate the divine as being "above" us, like a master, such as the judeo-christian "big three" (xtianity/judaism/islam) do, and as do many of the popular eastern religions.

    anarchism itself isn't the property of the philosophers who initiated the movement, and is not defined by them either. that would be like defining the alphabet by the letter A. indeed anarchism itself shouldn't really be defined by anyone, but it inevitably is and will be for some time.

    and now, back to the OPs question.

    not much. politically active yes, politically defined... impossible.
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    Yep i agree with you, my last message was just to say that anything is possible.... even the most contradictory thing
    (however, national-bolchevists are stalinists not neo nazis)

    As for the nazional anarchists, definatly it's some kids who are seduced by the efficacity of the Black Block and they are trying to reappropriate the thing... As far as i know, the worst of this movement seems to be limited to Germany.


    We could also say that anarcho-capitalism/market anarchism is contradictory, but a lot of them will defend themselves saying they are against the state - so they are anarchists. We could say that Proudhon said "property is theft", but he was also a mutuellist....
     
  20. freewaybear

    freewaybearMember New Member


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    I'm an Ignorist :ecouteurs:
     
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