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Peter Kropotkin

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by Kobac, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    What do you think about P.Kropotkin man who belived in anarchy/communism as a ideal society.
    Where everyone gets what he deserves,He had in mind a decentralized society based on integration of education.
    Where they share their goods among them without someone saying i worked harder,i want more.
    He was proposing economic system based on mutual aid and voluntary cooperation
    Kropotkin s emphasis is on local organisation, local production obviating the need for central government.

    i m just curios what do you say about this?
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    one of the greatest theorician of anarchism.
     
  3. rude-boy

    rude-boyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    hmm never heard of him but that sounds like somthing i wanna check out. wikipedia?
     
  4. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    The guy made a theory that can work, abolish money, you abolish most of the problems of our society from theft, to gangs, to environmental destruction.

    Think of me as a supporter/follower of his theory of Anarcho-Communism.

    Instead of wikipedia, why not read one of his works, this link was posted on here before:

    http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_ar ... t/toc.html
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    i still don't buy into communism as a solution, and find anarcho-communism a contradiction in terms, as communism is a form of government.
     
  6. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm still a starter Anarcho-Communist but I'll reply:
    Do you mean by a form of government as in the authoritarian communism or the direct democracy of Anarcho-Communism? The thing in the USSR was a dictatorship as far as I can say, there was still a leader, still oppression, and it became worse.

    In an Anarcho-Communist society, the people as a whole, with no exceptions made will vote towards a decision. In my view of things, consensus decision-making should take place, if no solution could be reached then direct democracy will take place.

    I see no government there at all.
     
  7. vectoman

    vectomanActive Member Forum Member


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    In Communism, the workers take over and create a proletarian dictatorship. In theory, this dictatorship melts away to true Communism in which there is no government, and no oppression blah blah

    In anarcho-communism, there is no dictatorship, just straight to no government.

    This post is in response to anxiety69, I hope that little explanation helps.
     
  8. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    So what do you say to the Spanish Anarcho Syndicalists of the Spanish civil war? What do you say to the Anarcho Syndicalists that followed Flores Magon and encited the Mexican Revolution? I think once again Anxiety you are being reactionary to the word 'communism' which is entirely your choice by all means, but it has been explained to you ad-infinitum so please don't pretend that you still don't understand the difference twixt the two.

    Oh and Viva Kropotkin! y Viva la Revolucion Popular....cabrones!
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    anarcho-communism have nothing to do with the communist government in states like URSS china or north korea, actually kropotkin only take the economy of communism and the "government views" of anarchism, so it is communism without government

    a lot of anarchists are anarcho-communists, actually it is probably the most popular school of thought

    yep, the word communism seems to scare a lot of peoples
     
  10. vectoman

    vectomanActive Member Forum Member


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    It's really just a label, you can call anarcho-communism "happyland" if you wanted to. People get hung up on labels t0o much, I find.

    A little off-topic sorry.....
     
  11. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Punkmar77, Maybe i keep asking because i still don't understand how something like communism works in the eyes of anarchists? I don't keep asking to be an annoyance as you seem to think. Would there be someone in power enforcing this idea? If not how would it be enforced? and how would it be anarcho? You really need to stop labeling me.
     
  12. Arjay691

    Arjay691Experienced Member Experienced member


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    Honestly, from what I've read on the different types of Anarachist Beliefs, Anarcho-Communism makes the most sense to me. It's absolute equality and absolute liberty. It's perfect. However, just with everything else, the world needs A LOT more growing up to do before something like this could ever work.

    Kropotkin = :thumbsup:
     
  13. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    I apologize if I came off as annoyed, maybe you just haven't read enough about this branch of anarchism, it is Anarcho-Syndicalist or Anarcho-Communist not to be confused with Leninist-Marxist or Maoist Communism. Marx made a big mistake when he called for a 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' because he underestimated the greed and corruption that lives in every human heart. But some of the fleshed out ideals that Marx espoused were good in the eyes of the Anarchists because they jibed with what most early Anarchists were fighting for. The Russian Revolution was initially started by Anarcho-Syndicalists but it was quickly abandoned by them, which created the vacume that led to Lenin (a bonafide bourgeois) bringing about his version of Marxism. There is a huge difference in theory philosophy and practice between the two.

    <3
     
  14. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    thank you for that, talking to me on that kind of level is more appreciated then then calling me names and assuming im out to undermine others... i'm just trying to learn stuff that i don't get. I will read more about anarcho-communism to see if i can gauge it.
     
  15. WitchesHammer

    WitchesHammerMember Forum Member


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    I'm always fascinated with something different, whether it be anarcho-communism, straight up primitivism, Anarcho-syndicalism(silly), mayan profecies or blah blah blah
    however, something that always sticks with me is the distaste for voting, and the trust that can be held in consensus. There are always disagreements, but in matters such as the band or anything else where more than a couple people are involved with a decision that affects those around them and what might be trying to get done I always stick to consensus. If I desire something that someone else does not, I just don't make an action towards either direction.

    it is not expected for everyone to do so.
    but I don't totally belive that we can't survive under communal cooperation or that it would be worse than what we have now.


    If greed really were at the center of our being, would we have made it through ice ages and famines in our early development?

    and are we really lost to our desires and destructive wills?

    I don't believe so.
     
  16. back2front

    back2frontExperienced Member Experienced member


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    For those who don't know anything about Kropotkin, or indeed anarcho-communism I recommend some of his books:

    "Fields, Factories and Workshops"
    "The Conquest of Bread"

    Although he wrote a lot of other stuff, his central theories can be found in these two works. They are a little dated but the central theories are still relevant.

    Anarchist-communism: Kropotkin was uncertain if it was correct to descibe humanity as "inherently good" but he was more confident that we were "inherently social", that is we came together in groups and formed tribes and village culture because we appreciated that more hands make light work. This is what he calls the commune - you can also call it the clan, the tribe or the workers soviet. Basically Kropotkin sees a society that is run along these lines in a local context. Rather than having a central government decisions are made locally.

    It's like the people in your street meet together and make decisions. Everyone has a say. They might appoint someone to carry out their wishes but that person is not like a politician and can be called back at any time. These representatives meet with other appointees. It IS a form of government but it comes from below and by the wish of the people rather than from above.

    Workplaces would be run by workers who may even decide to appoint someone who knows how to run a factory. Workers create to provide need so Kropotkin saw no need for money as such. People simply went and collected what they needed but that was based on the understandinmg that if they were able to work they would contribute. He also saw the need for only a 4-5 hour working day so that people would be free to pursue leisure or science or whatever. Can you imagine all those extra minds devoted to making things better and WITHOUT the burden of cost!!!

    In Spain, and especially Barcelona, there are numerous examples of how collectivisation of industry increased production. It's all down to the distribution of labour.

    Of course today we live in a society were everyone has become overly reliant on the State to provide - food, fuel, health, information that many have asked of the anarcho-communists who is going to collect the rubbish and do the brain surgery. The answer is and always has been - us, the workers - it us who provide for need., therefore we own what we provide - the boss simply takes what we make and capitalises upon it, parasitism by any other name.

    If anarcho-communism seems like utopianism it is because many misuderstand their own involvment in the process. Albert Meltzer saw anarcho-syndicalism as a tool towards anarcho-communism. The general strike: the withdrawal of services to collapse the old system and usher in the new. But times have changed and we need to adapt anarchist ideas to take these things into consideration. Ecology and sustainability must be central, for example.

    But do read Kropotkin, when I first got into anarchism I didn't really know what I was talking about until I started to delve into Bakunin, Kropotkin, Malatesta and the ideas of anarchist-communism.
     
  17. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well put back2front. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Vegetarian Barbarian

    Vegetarian BarbarianExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Anxiety, dont let a few dictators and the american media ruin the word communism for you. The central idea of everyone helping everyone out and everyone being equal is in a sense communism, and (in a perfect world) that would be great, but we dont live in a perfect world, and thats why communism and SOCIALISM are used/labeled wrong all the time.

    The Conquest of Bread can be found online, its a good book.

    I say read all them, and read Nietzsche, because fuck life.
     
  19. xOutspokenx

    xOutspokenxActive Member Forum Member


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    Nope, just the ones that don't know enough about Marxist theory and libertarian comunist theory.

    But as a libertarian communist myself, I cannot but express apreciation of Kropotkin.
     
  20. Milan

    MilanExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I've started reading The Conquest of Bread,
    I am very interested in the ideas of Anarcho-Communism,
    but the differences between Anarcho-Communism and Anarcho-Syndicalism are not yet clear to me...
    could anyone explain that to me? :)

    and by the way,
    I HATE it when people think Soviet Russia is the utopia of communism,
    Josef Stalin was a dictator and that has nothing to do with communism...
     
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