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Objectifying women

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by KnockItBack, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    Yeahhh :beers:

    See, I've actually met more stereotypical gay men than not (granted, I don't know how many gay men I've met that haven't told me, unless it was obvious), but maybe it is where I lived. I agree about the lack of confidence stuff; I think low self esteem is extremely detrimental to almost everybody, actually. Not that I think egocentrism is fantastic either, but moderation is key. I can't stand pissing contests and group mentalities that go along with a lot of male stereotypes. As far as you being more comfortable with yourself after having a lot of gay friends, that totally makes sense. I love me some good looking women, but I'm straight. There was a point for a while where I wasn't sure, so I started venturing into the lesbian community and realized I was straight, and simply am just physically attracted to women, but nothing more.


    Punkmarr77, would you happen to have any links of info on that movement in Japan? I'm very curious.

    Spider, I think porn can be empowering, too. I read Jenna Jameson's book, and she struggled a lot with doing movies and things she did not want, which made her feel degraded, but when she loved what she was doing, she felt like she was the queen of the world. As long as you're comfortable with what you're doing, then great, ya know?
     
  2. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Not currently but I can find out from my japanese friend who was telling me about it, it has a name but I cant remember what he said it was. I'll contact him and find out for you.
     
  3. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    Thanks :)
     
  4. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    all capitalism dead
     
  5. chesticles

    chesticlesActive Member Forum Member


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    Oct 14, 2009
     
    your right about women fondelling men at male strip clubs but really? women have to pay big bucks for the stuff you described because male strupclubs are so few compared to women clubs. besides vegas, you need to hunt for em. i live in LA and i still havent found one to go to for my 21st
     
  6. B00mstick

    B00mstickNew Member New Member


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    Dec 18, 2009
     
    (Same Boomstick who registered a few days ago, got an issue with my account so had to make a new one)
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Well, one thing I have for sure is that I'm not the stereotypical male. Ok, I don't treat my mom like a queen and I almost never wash the dishes in my house and I don't have girly mannerisms, however if any of you here ever saw me in real life (assuming that I get to do to myself all the aesthetic stuff I want to) you'd probably think I'm either a fag or a girl.

    I hate being hairy, smelly and dirty. I really can't understand why women find that so appealing since they smell, look and feel better than any other organic being in this fucking planet. In fact to me women ARE the superior sex, not men. The fact we are physically stronger than them might even be nature's way of compensating for all the flaws we have when compared to women. I mean, they can bear huge amounts of pain, can be equally smart than men and just because they don't have the same level of strenght that doesn't mean they can't kick the shit out of some asshole trying to rob/rape them.

    Sadly women want to be inferior (at least in my country) otherwise I can't explain why they all seem so fragile and dependant of their "man" (men who happen to be quite ugly, girls in my country prefer someone who looks like a fucking caveman with an attitude to feel "safe" than being with somebody like me).

    You all talk about gender but hey... what happens if I like to look like a girl AND love girls? I'm pretty sure no girls in here would be interested in me since I lack the "masculine and protective" appearance and as much as they pretend to be "open minded" at the end of the day they'll just walk away with the guy who can protect them from the thieves and creeps and me, well I'll end up alone in a corner.

    Sorry if this offends anybody but... that's just the way things are. At least from my perspective.
     
  7. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    @chesticles - I'm kind of localy famous for my strive to take of clothes and climb poles and such if the party is good enough, and people usually have a good laugh, me included. Women seem to enjoy it ore than men, and sometimes when there is more people involved it's total fun...

    @B00mstick - Don't give up, granted I have met very few people form Chile and their stories about local punk scene were harsh to put it mildly. But, I've met men that are do stuff you do and find women, in other parts of the world stuff like that is accepted...
     
  8. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Yeah Boomstick.. originaly thats what punk was all about acceptance of everything and everybody.....maybe you should try to travel the world and find another place where you dont feel ostracized... tu sabes que la mayoria de paises latinos son machistas pero entre verdaderos anarquistas y punks no es un problema que te sientas o mires diferente, de todos modos te queremos hermano.

    :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs: :ecouteurs:
     
  9. Boomstick

    BoomstickExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2009
     
    Gracias punkmar77 por las palabras, aunque viajar para mi no es una opción todavía... y es cierto, el mismo Lydon decía en el docu de los Pistols que lo que mas le gustaba de los punks era la individualidad y el cómo cada uno de [email protected] se veía distinto del/a otro/a; y al final se decepcionó porque terminaron usando poco menos que uniformes jaja, la mayoría se veía igual. Para colmo se supone que el punk va en defensa de la diversidad... ¿y que diversidad hay en el machismo? ¿en tipos que se portan como neardentales con sus novias punkis?.


    Yeah well Bananaman like I said before in my introduction topic I don't really think there are any real "punks" in Chile nor South America, just mindless pathetic fucks that like to be drunk 24/7 and trash stuff while being "macho". I'd love to be myself but rejection from peers and women doesn't really encourage me to do it...

    It'd be nice to see what the girls posting here think about this...
     
  10. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Ok KnockItBack the movement is called "Carnivores and Herbivores" Its predominantly in Japan although my friend says its catching on in the surrounding Asian country's like China and Korea. The men call themselves 'Herbivores' and are completely effeminate in dress and manerism's, the women call themselves 'Carnivores' and are completely masculine in dress and manerisms. These 'kids' are into gender role reversal as the next logical step in evolution. My friend didn't have any links to provide but I guess you can try to Google it and see what you get.....
     
  11. Boomstick

    BoomstickExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2009
     
    I just google'd about Carnivores and Hervibores in Japan and...

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... ft=1&f=100

    I didn't like it at all... seems as if the "Herbivore" men are actually AFRAID of powerful, smart and independent women, preferring docile and submissive ones instead. In other words, this isn't really "gender reversal" as much as it is "keeping the status quo of weak, cute and naive women" in Japan, because apparently girls who are "carnivore" seem to be rejected by these men.

    I know Knock it Back that you'd like to see more openess in gender roles, so do I but... this "trend" might not be the answer :/.
     
  12. Carcass

    CarcassExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 12, 2009
     
    I think stuff like this is a lot easier to see when you're looking at someone else's group than your own. I don't know about your community, but I've always found sexism among punks to run pretty rampant. It usually takes different forms than the kind of obvious epithet slinging I'm guessing that group of guys at your college commits, but we all tend to be blind to our own prejudices. The fact that they're so familiar to us makes it harder to be self-critical but, for example, I'm sure we all know people who routinely turn their girlfriends into coat racks at shows so they can go mosh with 30 other dudes.

    I also think you might want to be careful about drawing direct correlation between the fact that these guys are sexist morons and that they're people of color. I'm sure you know plenty of sexist asshats who are white and I would assume that you judge them as individuals, not representatives of all white people.
     
  13. Hex

    HexExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Sep 22, 2009
     
    nice to know that someone else sees this! great point Carcass!
     
  14. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm with you on that one man. Especially in conitinuation schools ive been too.
    It's almost like the girls are trying to get hurt. it's dumb the guys treat them like dogs.
     
  15. ASA

    ASAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2009
     
    equality or nada
     
  16. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oct 21, 2009
     
    Lol I should've even tried thinking of that with my ex... I think she'd beat the shit out of me.

    I have a concussion at the moment so reading is a problem right now and I haven't caught up on everything yet, so here's a few things that came to my aching mind.
    1) objectifying anything simply makes it easier and more accepted to look at it objectively, the only problem with it, along with most other things is a lack of moderation and context.
    2) masculinity is a problem over here at the moment as well, you're either an 'emo-fag' or a 'macho-caveman'. Me, I'm a bastard most of the time, hyperactive, loud and with a heavy tendency for swearing, I look like a fucking gorilla if I take my shirt off and have a tendency to come across as aggressive. On the other hand, I AM the guy that apologises for walking into you, says please and thank you when he orders and basically just wants to have a good time with everyone else. Not to say I'm perfect, but at least I don't seem to fall into either category completely.
    3) sexism sucks, yes, but I do have a tendency to 'discuss' the aesthetics of women walking by with my mates in a far from civil manner at times. Does that make me sexist? Don't know, it's simply something I do. On the other hand I do that to most anyone that walks by.
    4) And last, though this should've come sooner, if I find a girlfriend that can outlast half a year with me, or me with her... fuck man I'd never even think about treating her like a dog, even if she asked me to.
     
  17. BlinkoChrist

    BlinkoChristExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Haha im that guy, but im also the guy who holds her jacket while she moshes or we just buddy mosh :)
     
  18. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    You know what's funny about this... maybe they went into this movement with the intentions we were hoping for, but really just couldn't get out of the gender roles, so instead of reversing them, they just manipulated them a bit. The "herbivore" men couldn't handle being the "inferior" sex even though that was the goal.

    To whoever mentioned this, I think females (if I had to pick one) are the superior sex, too (in most species). Obviously males (again, in most species, especially mammals) are physically stronger, but females can bear children, which is a shit ton of stress on the body, and have all of those instincts that comes along with that, and have fewer genetic related diseases due to the XX chromosomes.

    Oh and Rathryn, I explicitly discuss attractive men and women with my friends or think it all in my head. Especially strangers, because there is no emotional connection whatsoever, so all they are is something to look at for now. I've never thought of that as objectifying. I think it would cross the line if you made her believe you liked her just to get laid... but that happens all the time so it is what it is I guess.
     
  19. KnockItBack

    KnockItBackActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 8, 2009
     
    I don't get why you bring your coats in the first place, honestly. Ok, ok, I'm from Southern California, it is never too cold to stand outside in line for a little bit (even though I get cold in 80 degree weather because my circulatory system sucks I guess), so everyone who lives somewhere genuinely cold, ignore this.
    You know you're going to be moshing, so why bring it in? I went to a show two weekends ago... it was raining and cold and I manned up and left my jacket in the car. I had to recoup in front of the heater for a half hour, but still. I could mosh happily and not worry about my jacket. Then I see all these guys around me sweating their asses off in their fucking leather jackets and people hiding their jackets in corners hoping they don't get stolen or pissed on.
     
  20. Boomstick

    BoomstickExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Dec 10, 2009
     
    Well I was the one who said that about females being superior heh :) , I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who feels this way, normally when I say that to girls in my own country... they say nothing! It pisses me off how men look so down on you even though you're biologically designed to bear all that fucking pain (I can't even imagine how much that hurts).

    If only more women here had the same opinion as you...

    Yeah about the "hervibore" thing, what's strange to me is that the women equivalent of them aren't afraid of "carnivore" men in fact, that's the kind of men they seem to look for the most! So honestly I don't think there ever was an intention of role reversal, it's only an excuse to force girls into being docile, only that instead of the guys being agressive and "macho" they victimize themselves, which in the end turns out to be way more pathetic (at least to me).

    Anyway I hope girls here find me attractive despite not looking like a normal "macho man", but if they don't then I guess there's always bisexuals...
     
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