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North Korea attacks South Korea.

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by JesusCrust, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Lemme gess: The top five weapon dealers of the world with the u.s. in the lead - that's why it's called security council, it's all about security...
    I watched a "My Lai"-dokumentation last night, starting with a brilliant analogy between yesterdays veterans fighting in Vietnam and todays GI's without a clue about "who" is the enemy in Iraq or Afghanistan - and the officials busily making the war "unseen" for the public, clouds of stars and stripes, fighting for democracy and freedom speaches... The similiarities are frightening - nothing has changed in 40 years - and the defence-industry is reaping the harvest - "defense-related companies surged on the money market..."
    With ol'Eisenhowers ex-president tv-goodbye-speach in mind - how important is the influence of the industry on foreign politics? And not only in the U.S. - germoney for example is struggling hard to get a place in the club, prolonging the international engagements, raising the number of troops detached, bringing in heavier weaponry - armoured howitzers against the afghan rebels, too bad that we have no B-52...
    Maybe Obama is playing a game with the 2012 withdrawl from Afghanistan in mind - because they can't leave without risking "defeat", so "international tensions" and "world's peace threatened by the axis of evil again" will make a comfortable smokescreen to hide the propaganda lies - but only as long as the public accepts the farce - that's where this one comes in: What are WE gonna do about it?
    Guess I'll visit my old friends in the anti-war movement again and join the growing protests...
     
  2. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    http://www.answercoalition.org/national ... n-war.html

    No New Korean War!
    Stop the Provocations – U.S. Military Out of Asia Now!
    November 26, 2010

    Rally Nov. 27, 12 Noon at the White House!
    Show your support for the rally by signing this statement!

    The Obama administration and its South Korean client government led by the rabidly anti-communist President Lee Myung-bak are blaming the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea) for the latest escalation of hostilities in the Korean Peninsula.

    But in reality the crisis there is the result of a policy of deliberate provocation by the U.S. and South Korea over the past several months. These provocations are targeting both the DPRK and the People’s Republic of China, countries where the often-concealed but very real aim of U.S. leaders -- Democrats and Republicans alike – is “regime change.” They could also lead to a new Korean war, one that could expand to wider regional, and potentially nuclear, conflict.

    While hypocritically calling for “calm” in words, Washington is escalating the crisis by its actions. A U.S. naval group led by the nuclear “super-carrier” USS George Washington is on its way to carry out joint military maneuvers with South Korean warships in the Yellow Sea, menacing both China and the DPRK. By moving this huge aircraft carrier into the Yellow Sea the Pentagon and White House are sending a direct, threatening message of escalation since China considers these waters to be part of its sovereign territory.

    On November 24, an unnamed “senior administration official” confirmed that the U.S. is escalating pressure on China: “China clearly does not like to see U.S aircraft carriers, for example, in the Yellow Sea.” (NY Times, Nov. 25, 2010)

    What's needed to resolve the crisis

    The DPRK wants direct talks with the United States, a formal Peace Treaty ending the Korean War, and a normalization of relations with the United States. This seemed like a realizable goal in the last months of the Bill Clinton administration in 1999 and 2000. George W. Bush scuttled these efforts shortly after taking office in 2001. The Obama administration continued this policy with new sanctions and endless war games simulating the invasion and bombing of North Korea.

    The anti-war movement and all progressive people and organizations should stand against any new war, and demand an end to the U.S.-South Korean provocations.

    In the latest incident, the North and South Korean armies exchanged artillery fire on November 23. Two South Korean soldiers and two civilians were reportcared killed and others wounded. Casualties on the North Korean side have not been reported. As in all such previous incidents, U.S. and South Korean leaders condemned the DPRK. But, as even a close reading of the universally anti-North corporate media here reveals, the first shells were fired by the South during military exercises staged in a disputed sea area close to the west coast of North Korea.

    The North Korean government stated that it was "reacting to the military provocation of the puppet group with a prompt powerful physical strike," and accused Seoul of starting the skirmish with its "reckless military provocation as firing dozens of shells inside the territorial waters of the" North.

    The roots of the crisis

    The western sea border between the North and South is not recognized as legitimate by the DPRK. It was unilaterally created by the United States, using the mantle of the United Nations as a fig leaf and cover for its actions, at the end of the 1950-53 Korean War. The U.S. and allied forces fought the DPRK under the UN flag, slaughtering millions of Korean people and leveling the northern half of the country by massive bombing. That war further divided a historically unified society into competing states. While an armistice was signed in July 1953, the U.S. has refused the demands of the DPRK to sign a Peace Treaty formally bringing the war to an end.

    U.S. “War Games” = Preparation for Real War

    In recent years there have been at least three clashes in the same area as the November 23 incident. The DPRK had repeatedly warned South Korea against carrying out the latest “war games” the area. In fact, the term “war games” is a misnomer -- these maneuvers should correctly be called dress rehearsals for war. No one knows, moreover, whether any particular military exercises is practice or the real thing, until it is over and done with. This is especially true when the “war games” take place in extremely close proximity to an enemy state.

    The U.S. and South Korea annually stage such exercises close to both China and the DPRK. The latest and largest joint drills were held this past summer despite strong protests from both the PRC and DPRK. Those “games,” labeled “Invincible Spirit,” included a simulated invasion of the North.

    China’s defense ministry especially objected to the presence of a U.S. aircraft carrier close to its coast. In typical arrogant fashion, a U.S. Defense Department spokesperson responded: “Where we exercise, when we exercise, with whom and how, using what assets and so forth, are determinations made by the U.S. Navy, the Department of Defense, by the United States government.” (Agence France Presse, July 15, 2010)

    Imagine for a moment the reaction in Washington if the Chinese navy announced that it was planning to hold similar maneuvers right off-shore of New York or Los Angeles.

    The Number 1 Provocation – U.S. Military Presence

    The biggest provocation of all is the massive presence of U.S. military bases, troop, nuclear and conventional weapons in the region. In 2010, 65 years after the end of World War II, there are scores of U.S. Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine bases in Korea, Okinawa, and all across Japan. The U.S. has provided high tech weaponry of all kinds to Taiwan. Trident submarines, each of which can launch hundreds of nuclear warheads, and nuclear-armed aircraft carriers prowl the eastern Pacific round-the-clock.

    This vast deployment of military power halfway around the world, far exceeds that of any other country. It and the tens of billions of dollars it burns up every year is justified to the people here as being for “defensive purposes.” But that is just another Big Lie.

    The real purpose of this monstrous military machine is to secure and further the interests of the U.S. corporate power and strategic domination in Asia and around the world. It is the enemy of the people of Korea, China, Japan and the people of the United States.

    There will be an emergency anti-war rally on Saturday, Nov. 27 at 12 Noon in front of the White House. If you live too far away or can't make it, please take a moment to sign an anti-war statement in support of the rally.

    http://www.answercoalition.org/national ... o-new.html
     
  3. crust rebeldia

    crust rebeldiaMember New Member


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    Nov 27, 2010
     
    the matter is so simple...USA wants to controll each nation and the whole world :@ but north korea doesn't wanna be controlled, and this war occured as a resistance of US invasion in korea gulf such doing a military training in korea gulf
     
  4. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Apparently it was actually provoked by the US and South Korea, which is obviously what were not told told on the mainstream news here is the US. Ungov, can I come live with you for a while?
     
  5. crust rebeldia

    crust rebeldiaMember New Member


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    Nov 27, 2010
     
    haha...you're gonna come to live with me ? :beer:
     
  6. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    Well, that was for Ungovernable. I kind of just want to skip out to Canada for a while.
     
  7. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     
    China warns US and South Korea over exercises
    http://www.euronews.net/2010/11/27/chin ... exercises/


    China has warned America and South Korea not to stage military acts near its coast, ahead of joint naval drills due to start on Sunday in the Yellow Sea.

    The US military says the exercises, planned long before last week’s attack by North Korea, are designed to deter Pyongyang and are not aimed at China.

    As the funerals were held for two South Korean marines killed when the North shelled Yeonpyeong Island, reinforcements were being sent to the area.

    The government in Seoul has been accused of being indecisive in its response to the bombardment.

    But as it considers changing the rules of engagement to enable a stronger reaction, China is appealing for calm from all sides.

    Beijing’s foreign minister met the North Korean ambassador and spoke to his American and South Korean counterparts.

    Amateur video has been released, showing the aftermath of Tuesday’s attack. On Friday the North appeared to fire more artillery shells near Yeonpyeong.

    Despite the outrage it caused, Pyongyang may have succeeded on two counts: reducing the island’s civilian population, and further dividing Beijing and Washington.
     
  8. Inle

    InleMember Forum Member


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    Nov 2, 2010
     
    The dollar is weak. The Asian markets are however thriving. Provoke war in the region and thus weaken the Asian market.
    Just a theory. Although western trading with north Korea is questionable i.e http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Home/Archiv ... id=3176922


    Kept an eye on by CIA nuclear expert Abdul Khan was not arrested on many occasions, allowed to provide nuclear knowledge to north korea. Khan’s collaborator B.S.A. Tahir ran a front company out of Dubai that shipped centrifuge components to North Korea. Despite Dutch authorities being deeply suspicious of Khan’s activities as far back as 1975, the CIA prevented them from arresting him on two occasions.

    1. South Korea turned down a US free-trade agreement not more than 2 weeks ago.
    2. South Korea is proposing a Tobin tax to flush out foreign speculators from their markets – in other words, protectionism.
    3. Asia’s economy as a whole has been outperforming the West’s globalism with increasing levels of protectionism, reinforcing the failure that is globalization.

    Solution? Start a conflict to crush confidence in Asian markets, threaten the South Koreans back into line.
     
  9. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Not being an expert on the money market I have doubts, sounds a bit to complicated and risky just to support the weak $ and after the weekends discussions, newsreports and a meeting with the local war resisters I tend to believe that the reason for this "crisis" are more us-domestic issues - maybe obama tries to appear "strong", especially after his start-treaty setback - kind of kissing the patriots asses with a nice fleet parade.
    Most of the european official press about the crisis are reports about the losses of DAX and other european indexes too, the political or strategic background is hardly ever mentioned.
     
  10. Malignance_is_bliss

    Malignance_is_blissExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Jun 10, 2010
     
    I'm not prejudice, but I just lol'd hard.
     
  11. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    I'm not either, recently I was reading lots of armament-reports about the iranian army - after almost 30 years of embargo and boycott their main offensive potential is their fast growing population - otherwise there is not much left from the western technology sold to them 'till the early 80's, they lost most of the modern equipment in the first gulf war against iraq and tried desperately to bring their numerical superiority to bear - not very successful, but very bloody.
    later they turned to the russians for support, but the russians followed the international sanctions almost completely, the last big deal for them was at the end of desert storm, when almost the complete iraqi airforce defected to iran to avoid beeing destroyed or captured by the u.s.

    from wikipedia:
    The Iran–Iraq War, and post revolutionary sanctions at the time had a dramatic effect on Iran's inventory of western equipment. Under the pressures of war all supplies were quickly exhausted and replacements became increasingly difficult to come by. The war eventually forced Iran to turn towards the Soviet Union, North Korea, Brazil, and China to meet its short term military requirements. Initial developments in every field of military technology were carried out with the technical support of Russia, China, and North Korea to lay the foundations for future industries.
    Iranian reliance on these countries has rapidly decreased over the last decade in most sectors where Iran sought to gain total independence; however, in some sectors such as the Aerospace sector and missile technology Iran is still greatly reliant on external help. Iran has developed the capacity to reverse engineer existing foreign hardware, adapt it to its own requirements and then manufacture the finished product. Examples of this are the Boragh (APC vehicle) and the IAMI Azarakhsh (jet fighter - between 1997 and 2001 the iranians build a massive force of 6 (!). In an attempt to make its military industries more sustainable Iran has also sought to export its military products.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_ ... anian_army
     
  12. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2009
     
    Well the fact that the South and the US joint exercises were being carried out along the border resulting in shells hitting a disputed zone I would say that this provoked the response from the North.

    The South sounds like it wants war and the US cannot afford to go to war with their debt.
     
  13. QueerPunk

    QueerPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Dec 29, 2009
     
    Oh and there is NO way that North Korea could have arms sales with Iran...how the fuck do they get there?

    Overland method through China and Central Asia?

    By sea?


    Somebody would have noticed it.
     
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