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NGNM85's list of fascists and authoritarians fake anarchists

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ungovernable, May 18, 2010.

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  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    NGNM85 says that anyone who is against tolerating hate speech is a fascist, an authoritarian, a stalinist and a fake anarchist.

    The list of peoples against hate speech is very long, so i quickly wrote down the most popular organizations, bands, and historical example of anarchism against hate speech tolerance. We could probably make this list 100 times bigger. On the other side, the list of organization, philosophers or bands tolerating free speech for the nazis is VERY short. And the list of historical example of anarchism in action where hate speech was tolerated is EMPTY.

    All of those organizations, bands and historical examples are our COMRADES, they are examples to follow and they are definatly anarchists. Of course Anarcho-punk.net supports all these examples and recognize itself into their ideas.

    So now the question is : Do you think a speech like NGNM85's qualifying as fascist and authoritarian all those comrades who are examples to follow should be tolerated in a place that is dedicated to the fight those peoples are leading ? We are an anti-fascist forum. All of those bands listed here are available on anarcho-punk.net as download. When we distribute anti-fascist bands, we take a responsability. The responsability that this forum will not become a place where peoples can freely say those bands are fascists, authoritarians, stalinists, and fake anarchists.
    Like our "who are we" text says: "Also understand that by claiming to be anarchist this site has to keep a minimum of coherence between words and action."

    Sorry to start a topic about that, but i'm sick of repeating over and over again that it is a general consensus to NOT tolerate hate speech in the anarchist community. Anyway even if we have warned about the clarification to the point of unity, NGNM85 is still always bringing up the subject of free speech for the nazis, so i have all of the rights to do the same.
    I didn't really post this to counter NGNM85's argument, but more to counter the arguments of the peoples who disagree with the recent modifications of the "who are we" text.


    Those organisations are present everywhere in the world, they represent thousands and thousands of individuals from all countries:

    RASH / Red and anarchist skinheads
    RASPH / Red and anarchist punks and skinheads
    SHARP / Skinheads against racial prejudices
    ANTIFA
    Anti Racist Action
    Anti Fascist Action
    Antifa Redskins
    Nazi Watch
    Rock Against Racism
    Good Night White Pride
    Anti Nazi League
    Antifascist Rock Action
    Turn it down
    No pasaran
    SCALP (france)
    Anti Fascist Alliance
    Anti Fascist Committee
    Deport Racism Organization
    Campaign Against Racism and Fascism
    Anarcho Communist Federation
    CNT
    CNT-AIT
    CNT-FAI
    POUM
    Anarchist Federation
    NEFAC
    UCL (quebec)
    Class War
    Anarchist Black Cross
    International Workers Association
    Red & Anarchist action network
    The Angry Brigade
    Alerta Antifascista
    Red Warriors

    Spanish Revolution
    Ukraine Makhnovtchina
    First International
    Commune Of Paris
    Kronsdadt Sailors
    Zapatista Movement
    EZLN
    The anti-nazi resistance in world war II
    Black Panthers
    Bonnot Gang
    Red Army Faction
    The french revolution
    Haymarket

    Ungdumshuet
    All anarchist squats in the world
    All of our comrades in russia


    Oi Polloi
    Aus Rotten
    Propagandhi
    Kaos Urbano
    Non Servium
    SS Kaliert
    Dead Kennedys
    Brigada Flores Magon
    Jeunesse Apatride
    Los Fastidios
    Loikaemie
    Freiboiter
    The Oppressed
    Angelic Upstarts
    Sham 69
    Napalm Death
    The Oi! Scouts
    Stage Bottles
    Antidote
    Brixton Cats
    Esclaves Salariés
    Banlieue Rouge
    A.P.P.L.E
    Bérurier Noir
    Contravene
    Resist
    Zyklon B
    Angry Youth
    Sin dios

    and many many record labels, like Fire and Flames, Insurgence Records,

    We could list millions of antifascist bands so i will stop here. In fact we could even say that almost ZERO anarcho-punk bands would tolerate nazis at their gigs, nor would they tolerate playing with nazis. So they could all fit in this topic. Same thing for anarchist organizations, nazis are definatly not allowed, anarcho-punk labels refuse to print nazi records, anarchist journals refuse to let the nazis express themselves, etc etc...

    And we could also list all anarchist philosophers because none of them defended free speech for the nazis (except chomsky, who isn't an anarchist)

    If you think some or all those examples are fake anarchists, stalinists, authoritarians and fascists then YOU are the fake anarchist and you definatly don't have your place inside this community.

    So either you think that all those examples are fascists and that we must remove them from anarcho-punk.net because like the points of unity say, we do not tolerate fascist or authoritarian propaganda...
    Or either you think it's definatly wrong and that NGNM85 is an idiot who is a shame to this forum and what it stands for.

    "The website is a TOOL for people wanting to organize, and is NOT a free tribune nor a place for useless ideological wars between people and their different converging ideas."
    "This site is a sort of a federation of bands and people sharing similar interests - and NOT a battleground for political opponents."

    Oh, and i forgot to add myself to the list, and the majority of this forum :)
     

  2. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    I would imagine CRASS and all the bands on their labels would share the sentiment also...
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Not sure about crass, "white punks on hope" is pretty much a critic of the anti-fascism movement, this is aone of the very rare exceptions, probably the only one i can quote... but crass were also very "anarchy & peace"... nearly hippies..
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    It's funny how NGNM85 is totally ignoring this thread because he knows it's the truth.

    NGNM85 please confirm us, like you said previously, all those examples are fascists, they are all authoritarians, all stalinists, all fake anarchists, and all those examples are incompatible by true anarchism.

    On the left side, you got NGNM85 without any philosophers and without any historical examples to back up his theories on.... and on the right side, you got 150 years of anarchism in total contradiction with NGNM85's ideas........ One single person pretend that hundreds of examples of anarchism in action that deinied free speech for the nazis are authoritarians, fascists and fake anarchists..... WHO WIN ???? :)
     
  5. super_phun_tyme

    super_phun_tymeExperienced Member Experienced member


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    I really think you should just ignore this guy at this point, these thread about him are quite pointless in my opinion.
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Hard to ignore when he's on all topics and when all topics turn around the debate that he started and that he keeps fuelling.

    Anyway, i didn't post that only for NGNM85, a few other members also are against the recent modifications to the "who are we" text. They say that those modifications, clarifing we do not consider hate speech as free speech, is authoritarism. So those peoples should read this topic, and understand that if what we are doing is authoritarism, then the last 150 years of anarchism is also authoritarism.
     
  7. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I admit you are correct, and I agree with you. But why are you still bringing this up? It seems that you are the one who is challenging NGNM85 waiting for his response and then you blame him for spamming the forum with arguments. Sad.

    (And I never agreed with any of NGNM85's points, all I said was that he should not be banned for stating his opinion, which I know you have said is not the reason why, so just reading up on the 3-4 new pages in the other thread)
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I already explained this twice in this topic.

    learn to read.
     
  9. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    That is the same thing as saying "Sorry, but fuck you." You have still referred to NGNM85 on here, and you have done that multiple times before with multiple users where you "challenge" them for whatever reason yet you blame him that he keeps on arguing with no end.



    Who win? Seriously you are a complete and total idiot. You are challenging NGNM85 in this thread, you dimwit. And yes, I'm pissed off at you attacking users, calling them names and then blaming them for starting and never ending arguments, although most of the arguments on here have you as the last poster.

    See? You ignorant didn't even care to read what was typed and directly called AnarchoFem's post bullshit, and told her fuck you. Damn cunt.
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    blah blah blah.
     
  11. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Fucking idiot.
     
  12. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oh and...

    hey attention whore, now you are just spamming the forum so stop that RIGHT NOW. you don't need to open a new thread for this bullshit, especially if its to post childish bullshit.

    if you are not happy with the way this forum works, get the fuck out of here.

    is this how you would act in an anarchist society if the community decide to take a decision collectively (with no attempt to start anew and forget the past and try to pose a sollution to suit both sides), and you dont agree with the result of this democratic decision (which can be controlled by alts -multiple accounts-) so you act like a child ? then you are definatly not an anarchist (because I say so).

    ATTENTION WHORE. Another idiot who want to look like a victim.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    this thread isn't some childish bullshit because i refuse to agree with the results of a democratic vote. i already explained this is mainly a debate around the modifications to the points of unity...

    it's funny how you also insult me like 20 times in your last messages, and yesterday you were whinning like the crybaby that you are about insults.... you are a fucking big hypocrite!!!

    oh and....

    Alert alert !!! Alerta antisexista !!!

    AnarchoFem please come here, RUN, fast !!! We need your feminazi skills, someone used a sexist insult !!! BURN HIM, HANG HIM, PUT HIM AGAINST THE WALL AND SHOOT HIM !!!! This is untolerable !!


    I hope you will piss him off during 10 posts and keep calling him a sexist like you did for me.
     
  14. Lunadimae

    LunadimaeExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    It seems that people did not agree that insulting should be banned in the last poll, and that you kept on insulting members and me, and I got pissed off. Besides, we are united when we insult each other.

    So, can I call you a fascist Nazi because you agreed on a quote of Hitler's? And "cunt" is now considered a general insult, not really refers to sexual organs, or at least I never meant to put it in that context. Just like the words "fuck", "dickhead", and others.

    A cry baby and a hypocrite... Heh. Hey, democracy ruled that insulting should not be bannable, shall we abide to that decision?
     
  15. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Seriously Ungov grow up FFS, this is just fucking calling someone out. There have already been enough instances of you and NGNM or you and whoever at this point getting into fights. WTF IS THE USE OF TRYING TO GET INTO ANOTHER ONE?

    This is starting to remind me of ASA constantly calling out Anxiety ffs... that was just as lame. Fuck it's lamer than Christopher Reeves' legs and THAT motherfucker WAS a cripple, NOW he's DEAD.
     
  16. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I agree with this post 101%
     
  17. Bananaman

    BananamanExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I agree with this post 101%
     
  18. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Mate, you shouldn't base your whole opinion on "history".
    The point of knowing about history, may it be or not about anarchy, is to absorve the good things and dispose the bad ones.
    Clearly, I think it was justifiable that in times of war the anarchists wouldn't tolerate hate speech but, seriously, they were in a situation that doesn't even compare to the one we are right now, it was much more extreme back then.

    We don't have the need (nor the authority) to ban hate speech and it isn't justifiable because all that nazi bullshit propaganda is just seen as fucking lame and idiotic.
    And you may argument that there are still racist and hate related crimes in countries like Russia and such but it can be solved with either educating nazis or just fucking kick their asses or tell them to fuck off, there's really no need to take their free speech away, that would just be hypocritical.

    Anyways, I'm not saying in anyway that I agree with them but just let the cunts rant all they want and if they try to fuck you or someone up, just do what your mean't to and kick their asses for being misinformed assholes.
    Now the guys with the real power, the politicians, the conservatives and all the oil millionaires and magnats and such, those are the ones you should be worried about, there are far more important things than nazis right now, don't live in the past, what's been, has been done!
     
  19. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    There are hate crimes in every county. Look at what's going on in Arizona, people are now carrying around papers. Neo-nazis have been attacked (and killed) anti-fascist members very recently in Portland (and i'm sure in other places).
    Also, "education" doesn't always do a whole lot to change the minds of neo-nazis, most of the time it just reaffirms their fucked up beliefs.
    And of course we need to revoke their free speech because it causes harm to others and that violence interferes with the freedoms of others.
     
  20. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Ok, situation is dealt with, this thread is no longer needed.
     
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