Middle Eastern Revolutions!

Re: Riots in Cairo

Seeing as you have 2 posts, I assume you haven't been around long enough to criticize individuals for the amount of action they perform. Of course we advocate self governance in all regions. This topic is merely for news and updates about the events unfolding in Egypt, though it has been sort of hijacked by an argument. Back to the depth of action of users, this is online, everything can be, and is kept tabbed by government surveillance. It would be rather foolish to go into detail of such actions wouldn't it? I can assure almost (and hopefully everyone) here has done their background research on anarchism. If you read, none of us support reform after a revolution, the kick is, we're not in Egypt to help vocalize this idea (and if any users here are from Egypt, they don't post very often.) So please, look around, read a bit before making such assumptions. Solidarity is the best one can express when they are 1000's of miles from revolution ground zero. Hopefully this influences other countries, and other peoples around the world to follow in their footsteps. Sure, Egypt may not come out of this with an autonomous libertarian communist style society, but that does not mean this revolution doesn't portray people power at work. You can still support the people even if the outcome isn't completely desired by anarchists.

Other than that, welcome to Anarcho-punk.net. Enjoy your stay.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

If the people in charge are the ones "shooting folk, blowing folk up, and charging too much for food", don't you think they would obviously give a fuck? Of course no one wants this. Not everybody is an anarchist, most people jut want to live and not be fucked with. What's going on in this fight is the obviously fact that US backed Israel is basically terrorizing Palestine. You can't blame Palestinians for fighting back for their right to life, and having a supreme distrust of the west for supporting these gruesome acts. It's the same as you can't blame Iraqi's for fighting back against a US invasion, but you claim choosing sides is a bad thing. Like I said, everything isn't so black and whitely anarchist and not. Anarchism means standing for the rights and freedoms of people, and it is within anarchist theology to stand on the side of the oppressed, not the oppressors. You basically sound like Random Person from There, saying fuck em both, let em die, choosing sides isn't anarchist. Obviously the ideas of countries and dividing lines isn't anarchist, but this is no reason to stand again the country of aggression that is committing the atrocities. You can stand with the oppressed, no matter what country, because if countries truly didn't exist to you, as apparently you, as you say, live in anarchy, what side of a dividing line they are on shouldn't matter to you. And who are you telling to fuck off? No one's telling you to do shit. You have 2 posts and you're acting like we're all full of shit as if you've been here forever. If we're all as pathetic as you think, then leave your 2 posts and bail, because obviously we're not good enough for you, why would you want to stay here?

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

I get what you're saying, it's the government, not the people committing the atrocities, but this is an obvious fact. No one here stands for government of any kind.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Random Person had said something about a terrorist threat alert on christian institutions, but for all i know it could've been answered and i just missed it.

In fact, all my questions could've been answered already (if that's the case, my apologies for seemingly beating a dead horse), and i very well may have just missed it skimming through long, quote-laden posts. It's getting to where one could easily get lost in this thread.


Anybody have any reputable independent news sources for what's going on in Egypt at the moment?

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

And the minority isn't only from Israel, it's from Tunis (PLO), Beirut (Hezbollah), Amman (Jordan and Hamas), from Syria, Iraque, Iran, Riad/Saudi Arabia - but not from Gaza or the Westbank (Palestine Autonomy Regions) anymore.
I still go with Random Person - all of the main actual players have blood on their hands, none of them is actually doing something for the palestine people - they are just prolonging a useless/unwinnable war to reach final goals that are not acceptable for me as an anarchist - so they don't deserve my support.
AND I still go with Ungovernable and Lil' - israel as a state committing ethnical cleansing deserves no support but international proscription - just like any other rogue nation our ruling criminal minority talks so very easy about...

What's "left" are the people in Gaza/the Westbank AND israel in dire need and those on both sides who are willing to make an end to the killing and looting (including the illegitime annexion of land) now - and maybe get rid of the murderous minority someday too - they are the people we should support as much as we can.

I don't know if they are actually looking to us to show them how it's done - their history, culture and actual situation is very different compared to the mess we're living in, yes basically it's the same, the abuse of power and a revolution to end it - but I guess they have to find their own way - watching some news from Cairo and Tunis I think they are very busy finding out how to do it themselves.
And I still think we should support them with that to prevent repeating this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Here is Al Jazeera's report from earlier tonight...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4lKn66IiY[/video]

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

What the fuck are you even talking about? Nobody has said shit remotely close to that. Who the fuck are you? It would be wise to at least introduce yourself in some way before making unfounded assumptions about people you don't even know.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

i don't think it's ruined, the bickering and name calling wasn't that lucky from both sides of the front and there should have been arguments instead, this debate is IMPORTANT- and between you and me Ungovernable, calling someone a zionist - someone who lives in Lebanon and already lost very much - for nothing/for what - it's just not fair.
yes, Random Person did his part too - so you both don't owe each other nothing except a better try next time. you are both allright with me and i think you can take the critics - unlike my zionist mum who called me a nazi collaborator on the phone this morning after i said that she's quite mad - sitting in safe Budapest/Hungary and claiming my 2 year old daughters for "erez jisroel" and the israeli air force... to become the pride of the family:
Vassils "light wounds" from 1988: five scars on his legs in the size of a euro coin and a 26 cm long scar on his lower back, just "a fleshwound" (Vassil) - but that shrapnel would have smashed his vertebrate if it would have gone only 2 cm deeper: greetings from an israeli anti personal bomb, made in u.s.a. - and again: for what?

yess, it's off topic all the time - but Cairo isn't that far from Gaza and Egypts history is very closely linked to the history of the palestinians. Gamal Abdel Nasser started the Yom Kippur war attacking israel 1973 after israel attacked egypt forces starting the 6 days war 1967 with a surprise "preventive" air strike... and according german news and commentars today: Jerusalem is "concerned" about "the new stage of instability in the region" - because "peacekeeper" mubarak will have to go... berlin is only making future plans...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

i'll consider to give you my mom's telephone number - i guess you'll notice more than sublime differences between her and random persons views... - don't complain afterwards!

i still don't know what i think about this new and very eloquent "oh yes, we did wrong with supporting the pharaoh... we always promote human rights and democracy..." - especially in the EU.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

He doesn't live in Lebanon. He's lost little, if anything at all. He's obviously relatively young and lives in a western country (and has for an obviously major part of his life), and may or may not have Lebonese ancestry. From they way he talks he may or may not have visited the middle east (perhaps when he was very young) and plays it off like that makes him an expert on the region and everybody else is clueless (I also call bullshit on a lot of other shit he's told us about his life/"credentials" as they don't add up). That's pretty much what's bothered me...I just don't like those type of people that allow misconceptions to exist to push their point. I've seen you and Mr. Vasilly defend him on a couple points that I think may have been misunderstood/lost in translation.

As for Random_Person AND Ungovernable: yes, shit got out of hand. It was long, drawn-out and exhausting to watch. Started with points, ended with name calling and picture posting. Irrelevent to the original topic. But at least Ungovernable stuck to a position and didn't change positions to avoid getting called out on it, nor did he (actually have the fucking nerve to) post shit from a zionist website (no matter how fucking interesting it is) on this forum.

Last thing I'll say on this subject: I'm not going to sit here and kiss somebody's ass, just because they have a warped view on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict AND they may have a bit of middle eastern ancestry. Ol' Random_Person has earned his rightful place on my ignore list.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

I tried to follow it but it was a bit exhausting. I'm amazed it went on so long considering it seemed like neither of you were going to back down. One thing I will say is that ungovernable's position is very clear and I largely sympathise with it (that is, I think it is right to offer as much support as possible to the Palestinians as an oppressed people). I can't say I fully understood where Random Person From There was coming from - where 'There' is, if you like. I gathered the main criticism of the pro-Palestine movement was that it didn't care who it supported. I can also relate to this, having gone on anti-occupation demonstrations and heard people declare things like 'we are all Hamas'. I am not 'with Hamas'. However, the argument exploded so much, and appeared so futile, I got a bit lost after that.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Both your posts in this thread contribute nothing and do little but accuse without cause. Try to be a little more construnctive/productive in future, please.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Can you tell me what's this debate about so I can decide if I want to read it ?

I'm not joking I don't have much time to spend on internet.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

basically palestine/israel conflict. too much to read if you're not already into it, if you ask me. too much insulting and repetition, too....

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Clashes erupt amid Cairo protests: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12345656

Choice quotes:

One anti-government protester told the BBC that pro-Mubarak activists had initiated the violence.

Opposition supporters say many in the pro-government camp were paid by the authorities to demonstrate, and allowed into the square by the troops surrounding it.

US President Barack Obama responded by saying an orderly transition "must begin now", while Turkey's PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Mr Mubarak should take a "different step".

Abdelhalim Kandil, leader of Egypt's Kifaya (Enough) opposition movement, said Mr Mubarak's offer not to serve a sixth term was not enough.

"I will tell you very simply that there is an unprecedented popular movement that rejects the presence of the president on a scope that has not been seen before, that is calling for the will of the people to be imposed," he said.

If Mr Mubarak does not step down, demonstrators have planned to march on the presidential palace.

 

Re: Riots in Cairo

Pretty much boring, Egypt is fucked up - Mubaraks' fans are beating liberals in Egypt. Oh well, have you ever thought that if there was no religion, there would be no problems such these. I think they are all fuck up "inside" their heads, like Random Guy..maybe he's religious, who knows. But anyway, what I'm trying to say - all the extremist down in plale and isra are more or less religious and think that they are on secret misson from god, and other 60% is just innocent. That's sad.

Riot in Egypt...well, I think that deadline for Mubarak is Friday if I'm not wrong. We'll see what happens then. One of the military officers said that they were defending people out there..I just smiled - turned off my TV, and thought about all the riots going on. How the *u*c are they not achomplishing anything ? New government, new order, new people, all the same. They won't let us destroy the power, not that easy (real example is Mubarak) Some need to understand that..