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Middle Eastern Revolutions!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SurgeryXdisaster, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Maybe you could start answering the part of my other message that you never answered.

    By fighting i mean AT LEAST SUPPORTING THEM not being a lazy ass like you do and keep saying over and over again that you don't care, and that it doesnt change anything if a country is occupied by a foreign power.... You even lower yourself at the lever of trying to find positive points about the occupation


    Hahahahahahahahahahha and again you believe israel bullshit.... Polls like that are bullshit, why don't they ask the palestinian population what they think of the occupation ? And of course israel is a better country SINCE THEY DESTROYED EVERYTHING IN PALESTINE, dumbass.

    You're so out of arguments that now you lowered yourself to the point of trying to prove that the palestinians WANT to be occupied and the palestinians prefer israel to palestine... You're a fucking joke.

    How the hell do you expect people to join and fight for them if NOBODY IS SHOWING INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT ??? The first step is to get the public opinion to support the side that you are fighting for. If no one hears about the conflict, and if no one hears about people fighting against the conflict, then NOBODY WILL CARE ABOUT IT and nobody will fight for them. Even a 12 years old kid can understand that.

    Anyway, i dont understand why you say you would fight against the nazi occupation since you repeated over and over that fighting against them would equal supporting the state. If you fight against the nazi in france you would support France State and general de gaulle.

    Fucking hypocrite, don't try to hide yourself because you are contradictory. YOU SAID THAT FIGHTING FOR THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE IS COUNTER REVOLUTIONARY because it would mean supporting the palestinian state and palestinian governement, in the same way that fighting against nazis for the liberation of france would mean supporting the France State and you keep saying over and over again that we should only support anarchists and form anarchist groups instead of fighting against war.


    THIS IS NOT DOING NOTHING, saying that it does nothing to protest for palestine liberation is just like saying that anarchist protests are useless unless we take weapons against the state. Informing public opinion through protests is important and its the first step

    Following what you say we should stop any international support, we should stop supporting greek anarchists, russian antifas, and all our imprisoned comrades... Just because it's useless and blah blah blah, we aren't there so we don't care, blah blah blah... In the same way that we shouldn't support palestine if we're not there because it's "doing fuck all"

    Listen, you're really ignorant you should study history, let's take the vietnam war for example, it was stopped because the public opinion was strongly against the war and everyone was against this war. PUBLIC OPINION DOES MATTER. Protests aren't useless.

    USA is the #1 ally of israel, they are suppling them weapons, bombs, technology, money, etc.... Israel has a fucking big lobby in the USA to convince them to give money to israel.... So YES you can fight against israel even if you're in the USA, if the USA stop to support israel this country will be dead


    Are you an ignorant or you're just plain stupid ?
    ISRAEL APARTHEID ON PALESTINE IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, dumbass. The palestine wall was ruled ILLEGAL by an international court, so it is a crime against humanity. Destroying a whole country, murdering their citizens, building houses on stolen land and making the palestinian people disseapear from the map can easily be considered as a genocide.

    Anyway, why the fuck would you defend rwanda against the genocide ? They're not anarchists, so like you said, defending rwanda would mean defending Rwanda state, so it's better to sit on your lazy ass and do nothing.

    Did palestine provoke war on israel ? Did they start the hostility ? Who invaded who ? STUDY HISTORY, israel came here, stole their land, started the war, etc... Palestine DID NOTHING



    Oh ok, so i have to blame them for fighting back. So anarchist.

    [​IMG]

    Of really ? So where is the revolution on the dozens of countries that were occupied by nazis ?? Hmmm...


    First you say that we should fight for all nations to be abolished, next you blame the arabs for wanting israel state to be abolished, you're one of the biggest walking contradictions i ever seen.

    Yes most of the arabs want to see israel abolished, and you'd probably think the same if some religious people invaded your countries, stole your land, destroyed everything you had, murdered your family, etc.... If it happenned to YOU then maybe you'd understand, but you are too much of a selfish to care about what they feel.

    Look what's happenning since 1946
    [​IMG]
    Wonder why people want to see israel abolished ? Then you're just dumb...

    To say that ALL arabs share the same opinion about the solution is worst than racism, stop making so much assumptions and generalization.... There are many different propositons of a solution....
    Some wants to abolish israel
    Others want the borders of 1947
    Others want the borders of 1967
    Some wants a one-state solution
    Others want a two-state solution
    Etc....

    You see everything black-and-white and that's so annoying.


    THATS NOT CALLED A GENOCIDE, you pretended that the arabs want to make a genocide with jews, i answered by saying that there will be no genocide once the war end and everyone will calm down, i never pretended there wont be SOME fightings, but israel is to blame for putting this war too farther

    Wow, the more i read from you the more i think you have nothing of an anarchist, you keep saying over and over again that palestine should be annexed by israel and it will benefit for them...

    THERE IS NO REASON IN THE WORLD TO PREVENT HUMANITARIAN HELP FROM ENTERING A COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE ARE DYING, WETHER OR NOT IT IS IN A TIME OF WAR

    THERE IS NO REASON IN THE WORLD TO JUSTIFY BLOCKING FOOD AND WATER TO A COUNTRY. YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE.

    And again you are being a fucking ignorant, israel's reason to block all help from entering the country is that the palestinian are terrorists, they will use the SAME REASONS even after the war. Palestinians will always be considered as a DANGER by israel, and will be treated accordingly. You're a fucking dumbass and you believe israel propaganda word for words.

    We can't because most of the people are being lazy selfish and careless like you. Vast protests can end wars, history proven it.

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NOW YOU ARE PRETENDING THAT IRAQ WAR IS HELPING IRAQ, you're the biggest fucking idiot ever.... You're a pro-war anarchist, you're a fucking joke dude.

    So we should support iraq war because when it will be annexed by USA the conditions will be better and blah blah blah.... wow you're a fucking moron

    And of course it's easy to pretend to help them after stealing all of their oil


    AND FOR THE 433480480TH TIME, PALESTINE DOESNT NEED ISRAEL TO HELP THEM. Palestine was doing great before israel started war and destroyed their homes, their food, their way of surviving and blocked their water.

    Palestine could survive without israel, the whole world is already offering humanitarian aid, BUT ISRAEL DOESNT WANT TO LET HUMANITARIAN HELP ENTER THE COUNTRY.... They don't need israel's help, they can survive just if they get back their food and water and receive humanitarian help from international community

    By the way it's the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY and the UNITED NATIONS that funded most of iraq's rebuilding, NOT ONLY THE UNITED STATES...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment ... -2003_Iraq

    Yes, definatly you are very contradictory on many points, i'm glad to hear that you will rethink your positions and question yourself. I really didn't expect that, i thought you would defend your position till the end at any cost, i was really starting to loose any hope maybe you're not as dumb as i thought :)
     
  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Oh and by the way if you are scared of palestinian anti-communism then maybe you should use your best friend GOOGLE and search on all the jewish organisations like the Jewish Defense League and check out how anti-communist they are... In france tje JDL is recruiting ex-boneheads to fight against communists, they have a lot of anti-communist skinheads in their organisation and the french antifascist and communist often get confronted by them.

    We had a visit of the representative of the french JDL on pirate-punk.net, basically he said that he would smash any anarchist or communist in the face with his gang... they were also seen in many anti-arab protests, they are fighting against all form of leftism....

    If you think that palestinians are anti-semitism then you should also inform yourself about how israelis are anti-arab, they see them as all the same, they think all arabs are terrorists and are making a conspiracy against israel, it's definatly some disgusting form of racism

    Note that the Jewish Defense League is funded by Israel and is also active in many many other countries

    Here you go, if you want to see by yourself what the Jewish Defense League think of anarchists and communists:
    http://www.pirate-punk.net/message.php?t=16535

    (use google to translate it)

    Basically, he say all anarchists are clone of Stalin and Lenin, that all arabs are nazis, anti-semitist and racist, that he wants to see disseapear all muslim, that palestine should be ereased, etc etc... Basically everyone being anti-sionist is anti-jew typical sionist bullshit


    Here's some thing that your best friend google found:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism#Israel
    Racism in israel is on the rise:
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 45,00.html
    http://www.rense.com/general14/itisabsurd.htm
    http://socialistworker.org/blog/critica ... cism-inten
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/247215
     
  3. anarchoskin69

    anarchoskin69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 14, 2010
     
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    The great revolts shaking the Arab world in Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia and now Egypt have caught everyone by surprise. They are, without a doubt, one of the most significant events of our time sending clearly out there the message that no place on this world is doomed to be some imperialist-backed-dictator's playground. Extraordinarily authoritarian regimes like that of Ben Ali were shown completely powerless in the face of a united and determined people on struggle. The people carrying these rebellions are youth, workers, unemployed, the poor, who are right now shaping the face of the region, sending cold shivers to the cliques sitting in Washington and Tel Aviv. Not all the weapons amassed by the Mubarak regime, not all the US military aid have had the power to stop the protest from growing. They are showing the might of the people and the working class when they come together, they are showing the political capacity of ordinary people to build organisms of dual power with a clear libertarian instinct and they are proving the world that we are in an era of revolutionary change. We have had a quick dialogue with our comrade and friend Mazen Kamalmaz in Syria, editor of the Arabic anarchist blog Ahewar who talks about the importance of this splendid political development....

    source: http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/13704

    personal comments: theres more to unfold from this story, but unfortunately we will be looking at a quite disappointing scene as a new government is installed. what was inspiring is how the masses came together to revolt all at once, one day it was Mubarak's Egypt, the next it was completely the people's. expect more of this as the global financial crisis hits the growing populace of poor the hardest as the rich continue to hoard and gain wealth, growing smaller in numbers.
     
  4. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    BUT: What about comparing the palestine situation with katalonia 1936 - 1938 - supporting the republic and it's counter revolutionary aspects coming along with the soviet support or fighting all alone against the fascists supported by nazi germany and italy - both solutions had a very obvious big disadvantage - and the way things went into history weren't that...
    I know the comparison is misleading somehow - and it was necessary to make the "wrong" choice then, but I think it's a very similiar catch-22 situation - or completely furbar as mentioned before.

    I have serious problems with the idea to accept an israeli "occupation" because they already proved their lack of tolerance and respect for the rights and needs of the "terrorist" palestinians, and the israeli economy isn't so strong that it could do without an illegitim expansion at the expanse of the defenceless palestinians - so I think that the benefits of accepting israeli rule might very easy be less than expectable after a "peace agreement".
    On the other side: The struggle has reached a patt-situation, it isn't winnable for any side and to continue the war is obviously useless - except for the extremists gaining ground.
    I think it's necessary to make a break from the chaos in the region, regain some consciousness and enable the people to make up their mind how they want to shape their future themselves - maybe even under some (interim) "democratic" government. I agree that they can do without israel like they did in the past - but not as long as they are still in the crossfire between the front lines.
    Right now it's only an endless escalation of atrocities and the international protests against the crimes of the israeli are drowning in the fear of the sharia muslims and global terrorism produced by the western media.

    I'm not afraid of arab/palestinian "antisemitism" - but it's wrong and it doesn't help nothing in the struggle, except keeping old emnities alive. The same goes for the israeli's resentments against the arabs - they are just one more braindead reason why the useless slaughter is going on and on. It's not justifyable - even if I can understand it to a degree and both sides make more or less the same mistake believing in murderous propaganda.

    @anarchoskin - great post!
     
  5. Random Person From There

    Random Person From ThereExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 27, 2010
     
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    What "other part", please point in out.

    Do I say over and over that I do not care? Wow. Where did I say that it doesn't change anything if a country is occupied by a foreign power? Seriously dude, either quote my posts or don't claim such things. There are positive point post-occupation when the occupying country is backed by superior economics and countries and can offer the other more than what Palestine can offer by itself, but as I said this is not the case in the scenario we are taking as the mutual hatred and the anger will definately not lead to this.


    Hahahahahahahahahahha and again you believe israel bullshit.... Polls like that are bullshit, why don't they ask the palestinian population what they think of the occupation ? And of course israel is a better country SINCE THEY DESTROYED EVERYTHING IN PALESTINE, dumbass.

    You're so out of arguments that now you lowered yourself to the point of trying to prove that the palestinians WANT to be occupied and the palestinians prefer israel to palestine... You're a fucking joke.[/quote]
    ... Is this guy fucking kidding me or is he THAT stupid? I don't believe Israeli bullshit, that's a poll either you take it or you don't, in which case it is your fault and your duty to find another more "neutral" or "reliable" poll to counter this poll. What do you expect? Who in his rightful mind would create a poll to ask the already anti-occupation public if they are anti-occupation? Wow, you are really turning out to be not only void of arguments, but stupid. :lmao: Of course they do not want to be occupied by another country, but as it is they are, there's only one thing to do - to look at the future. Will they join the demolished, destroyed Palestinian side or the wealthy and powerfully backed Israeli side, of course they would choose to live under Israel if of common sense, and under Palestine if they are hardliners or Nationalists of some sort. I am not out of arguments, I have been and still am replying with arguments while you reply with something like this: "hahahahahhahahahahaha dumbass hahhaha dumb hahahhaa..." etc.

    Oh so now if you do not have international support, you will not have anyone fighting for you? What. The. Fuck. ... :lmao: People will and always have been hearing about the conflict thanks to the MEDIA who made them aware of such a conflict, not thanks to unheard of protesters one day waving flags and crying solidarity and the next eating caviar. Strawman, after strawman, after strawman, will you not find an actual argument or reply?

    I said "That is true, if I LIVED in France I would fight because I am able to." Read well and then complain. Also, yes, I would FIGHT the Nazi occupation, not hold flags and cry out while wearing a beret and a baguette (kaffiye similar?) at some random embassy just to look cool on TV.

    ]

    Oh and please do stop pulling sentences out of context, they make you look desperate. :/

    That is what I said. Where it was a reply to:
    Oh and:
    I said: I DID NOT SAY FIGHTING AGAINST A WAR IS COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY
    You said: YOU SAID THAT FIGHTING FOR THE LIBERATION OF PALESTINE IS COUNTER REVOLUTIONARY
    Haha, right. As you cannot clearly see the difference and it is almost 3 am here, I will explain briefly. You claimed that I had called fighting against a war counter-revolutionary, which in certain cases such as in Pacifism is counter-revolutionary. Then you claim that I am being a hypocrite for claiming that I do not oppose fighting against a war because I said that the fight for the liberation of Palestine is counter-revolutionary which makes no sense at all and leaves you in a loop. But yes, do accept my change of opinion from now on, I said that before.


    Why yes, Anarchist protests are becoming useless as in not being efficient and are turning into mass chaos fests with kids in black throwing rocks at stores and breaking windows instead of attempting to organize and conceive a revolution through knowledge or other means. And also, yes, it does nothing and I will reference you AGAIN to the anti-war movement of the VIetnam War era, does shit. I have said it once and I will say it again, you have one fucked up way of reading and understanding things. No, do not stop supporting the ANARCHIST GREEKS, nor the Russian Antifas, nor our imprisoned comrades, by all means do not. What I do not want people to do is sit in front of foreign embassies, wearing a kaffiye/hijab, waving the Palestinian flag, and crying out solidarity and then returning home as if nothing ever happened.



    Yes, let us take the Vietname War example. At first around 50% (and that's millions) opposed the Vietname war before 70-80% of the country opposed the Vietnam war during the 1970s, with that knowledge and the thousands of protests, demonstrations, public unrest, and so on so forth, THE US CONTINUED BOMBING AND KILLING THE VIETNAMESE FOR 20 FUCKING YEARS. "The Vietnam War was a Cold War military conflict that occurred in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia from 1 November 1955 [A 1] to the fall of Saigon on 30 April 1975. " The anti-war movement with 80% of the people on its side DID SHIT. Here's some more statistics:

    Casualties:

    North Vietnam & NLF
    1,176,000 dead/missing; 600,000+ wounded

    People's Republic of China P.R. China
    1,446 dead; 4,200 wounded

    South Vietnam
    220,357 dead; 1,170,000 wounded

    United States
    58,159 dead; 1,719 missing; 303,635 wounded

    Kingdom of Laos
    30,000 killed, wounded unknown

    (Pro-US)
    Total dead: 315,384
    Total wounded: ~1,490,000+

    (Pro-Nam)
    Total dead: ~1,177,462 (highest estimate)
    Total wounded: ~604,200+

    Vietnamese civilian dead (both sides): ~200,000–2,000,000[10]
    Cambodian civilian dead: 200,000–300,000*[11][12][13]
    Laotian civilian dead: ~20,000–200,000*
    Total civilian dead: ~420,000–2,500,000

    The protests did increase public awareness but did not even end the war, "The true stopping point, however, was during the "TET" new year's offensive in February, 1968. Highly respected CBS TV Anchor Walter Cronkite visited Vietnam during this time, and came home declaring that we were losing in Vietnam. That quickly stopped congressional funding and robbed the senior military leadership of their call to expand the war to win.

    When President Johnson announced that spring that he would not seek re-election, it was like throwing in the towel. Richard Nixon ran on a promise to end the war, which he did through the Paris Accords. By April 25, 1973, all U.S. forces had withdrawn from Vietnam. South Vietnam collapsed from North Vietnam incursion exactly two years later."

    Need I say more? Note that it was 80% or so of the country, and not a few hundred angry protesters with flags as is the current case.

    This country will be dead, a branch of the Imperialist tree will be dead, but in no way will you kill the tree. This further supports the claim that life now under Israel is far, far better than future Palestine due to the supply of "weapons, bombs, technology, money, etc...." the US is giving to Israel. You cannot even compare the living standards of say, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt to Israel.


    Did you just ignore half of that post you quoted? BOTH SIDES ARE AND WILL PERFORM GENOCIDES, there is no damsel in distress. Point stands till proven otherwise. To even hint at the future would reveal retaliation of the Palestinians and the Arabs against the Israelis as had been and as will be, it needs no genius to figure that out. Then, Israel will have its land destroyed, its citizens murdered, its houses demolished, etc.

    YOU ARE A COMPLETE IGNORANT IDIOT. I will not bother repeating myself on this for the 1,000,000th fucking time, go read what I said again in other posts. And Rwanda's case WAS A GENOCIDE WITH A DEFENCELESS SIDE unlike Palestine that is more than capable to defend itself as is seen. :ecouteurs:

    Did palestine provoke war on israel ? Did they start the hostility ? Who invaded who ? STUDY HISTORY, israel came here, stole their land, started the war, etc... Palestine DID NOTHING[/quote]
    Oh. My. Fucking. God. Here you go since you are a fucking idiot:
    "The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would "fight for every inch of their country."1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews.2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee's spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . ."3

    Husseini's prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

    The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

    In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

    On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

    [A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

    On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel's declaration of independence.

    The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

    Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

    The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

    The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.9

    The British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

    Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine.10

    Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem."

    and

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_ ... _war_start

    and


    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/palestin ... eline.html
    Where: "1920: The British started ruling Palestine.

    1947: The British handed over the responsibility of solving the Zionist-Arab problem to the United Nations. The United Nations voted to divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. Jerusalem received an international status.

    1948: Israel was declared as the first Jewish state on 14 May. The British left Palestine. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Egypt declared war on Israel.

    1949: Israel and the Arab states agreed to armistice. Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the United Nations Partition Plan."

    This is from a pro-Israel website, weird but alas interesting:
    "The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel:

    * 1948 War of Independence
    * 1956 Sinai War
    * 1967 Six Day War
    * 1973 Yom Kippur War

    Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). (see Camp-David Accords). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

    Anonymous quote:

    If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.
    Think about it..."

    Read it before criticizing the source and missing the point.




    As proved above, they are not fighting back against any attacker, the many wars were initiated by Arabs instead of Israel. The question was directed at you, will you condemn the Palestinians for killing Israelis and Jews just because they are so and just because their country did X and Y to them? Just as will you condemn the Israelis for killing Palestinians and Muslims just because they are so and just because their country did X and Y to them? Same shit.

    Oh, the revolutions were there alright, but in alternate forms as can be seen otherwise they would have still been Nazis to this day.


    Did you not even fucking read my disclaimer? Hopefully you did not and I can safely say that you are an ignorant instead of an idiot. You. Are. An. Idiot. Forget what I said in the last few sentences. BEFORE their buildings had been destroyed, BEFORE their families have been murdered, BEFORE their land has been taken to this extent, it was the Arabs who declared war not the other way around. Your argument is void. I blame the Arabs for wanting the Israeli state to be abolished only to have it replaced by another, coming only after mass genocides and killings of the Jews and Israeli inhabitants be them Jewish or Arab for the Jewish especially the Zionists will not give up their "promised" land that easily.
    It basically has happened to me, during the Lebanese Civil War, my relatives have been killed.

    1948, after that many wars have been waged and many lands have been taken and returned. It is atrocious nevertheless, and it is their fight not ours to make.

    This dude has never heard of hyperbole. There is absolutely NO arguing that the majority want Israel to be abolished, including official claims by nations in support of Palestine. Basically it is only Jews that want the old borders, Arabs and especially Palestinians want all their land back (abolishment on Israel)


    Stop taken my posts out of context.
    "When you are under occupation then most likely you will think the enemy people are all the same. The same thing happenned with germans during WWII. But when the war stop, nobody want to make a genocide with the people of the old ennemies." That is what you said and what I replied to it was above.
    Yes, that is a genocide you idiot.

    Genocide: The systematic killing of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, etc

    I am not saying IT SHOULD BE annexed, I am saying IF it were annexed. English 101, a necessity for Ungovernable. He can throw insults and ad hominem but cannot form a coherent argument.
    There is no ethical reason, that is for certain, but that it is happening is an undeniable fact and absolutely due to war. Since the medieval ages besieging has been a common tactic, it is unethical, but then again WAR IS UNETHICAL and you CANNOT END ALL WARS.

    Israeli propaganda? Right, I'm full of it seems, even though I oppose their war and their existence as well as the existence of any state and nation. Got it? I hope you did because I tired of repeating myself over and over. Did I fucking justify and support Israel's actions against Palestine? Fuck no.

    Yeah, live the Vietnam War. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Go find me a protest now at the size of that and we'll talk after.

    Dude... GO READ A FUCKING BOOK OR JOIN AN ENGLISH CLASS YOU FUCKING DIPSHIT. WHERE THE IN THE HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK DID I SAY THAT THE IRAQ WAR IS HELPING IRAQ. OH MY FUCKING GOD. This guy... This guy is beyond all help. :ecouteurs: You claimed that an occupation army never in the whole of history helped the people it occupied, I PROVED YOU WRONG.

    What? o_O

    I will not debate the oil part, for the US is constantly stealing oil from all other countries. But read my post above, same applies here, the fact that they are giving aid cannot be argued with when you claim that "IN THE WHOLE HISTORY AN OCCUPATION ARMY NEVER HELPED THE PEOPLE"


    Yes, and what does that have to do with the current debate at hand? Palestine doesn't need Israel to help them, I agree with that. Did I say otherwise? No. I said that SHOULD ISRAEL ANNEX PALESTINE IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN IT IS NOW.

    DID I EVEN SAY THAT THE UNITED STATES ONLY HELPED IRAQ? FUCKING HELL NO. GO LEARN FUCKING ENGLISH. We were speaking of an occupational army aiding the occupied, you said it never happened, I proved you wrong and will do so again in a few seconds:
    The report, obtained by the Federation of American Scientists, shows that the U.S. appropriated $28.9 billion in assistance to Iraq from FY03 to FY06. In comparison:

    U.S. assistance to Germany totaled some $4.3 billion ($29.3 billion in 2005 dollars) for the years of direct military government (May 1945-May 1949) and the overlapping Marshall Plan years (1948/1949-1952).

    Total U.S. assistance to Japan for the years of the occupation, from 1946-1952 was roughly $2.2 billion ($15.2 billion in 2005 dollars), of which almost $1.7 billion was grants and $504 million was loans.

    Oh shut it, you should do the same - rethink and question your position at all times, that is what I constantly do. Debates are heated and result in insults said, that is normal and will become nothing more past the debate. Hence why you claim that I am contradictory and a hypocrite at times, and that is partly either due to misconception, tiredness, or change of opinion.

    Yes, I have heard a lot of shit coming from the Jewish Defense League, fucking Zionists. But to compare the JDL to Palestinians would not do, they have to be compared to Islamist extermists just as these are Zionists extremists.

    "If you think that palestinians are anti-semitism then you should also inform yourself about how israelis are anti-arab, they see them as all the same, they think all arabs are terrorists and are making a conspiracy against israel, it's definatly some disgusting form of racism"
    Yes, that is why I repeat that the politics of the Middle-East is fucking up due to religion. The Israelis want the Arabs dead, the Arabs want the Israelis dead.

    Now I'm off to sleep.
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    This part:
    Instead of having the courage that we should stop fighting for all these cause you pretend you have already answered me, which is false.
    Following what you said on palestine, we should stop fighting for all of these cause since they are not anarchist cause, "hit the tree not the branches" like you said, and blah blah blah

    I'm wondering what the fuck you do for the cause, you probably sit on your lazy ass and do nothing except if there is protests of anarchists fighting only for anarchy, and since there is none you probably never did something of your whole life except bitching people who actually do something because you think its useless.

    Yes you repeated it over and over again, you're a fucking hypocrite or what ? You keep answering me that you don't care about what's happenning in palestine.

    You keep saying that it doesn't change anything since all countries are illegitimate. You keep saying over and over again that it's not going to change anything if palestine is occupied by israel or not since the palestinian state will still exist, that it will not change anything since the palestinian state would be as worse as israel, etc.... Stop being an hypocrite. Look on page 1 of this debate, you kept saying it over and over again, you kept saying that it will not change anything because palestinian regime would still be bad, etc...

    Oh because you think there is some case where there is not mutual hate in a WAR ????

    I don't give a fuck about your stupid poll comming right from israeli propaganda bullshit, do you seriously think that a few people from jerusalem represent what the whole palestinian nation think about the occupation ?? You must be the most fucking stupid person to quote this poll and use it as an argument.... Anyway polls are bullshit, for each poll proving something you can find at least 2 others proving the exact same opposite thing...

    Do you seriously think that there are a lot of anti-sionist palestinians living in JERUSALEM ??? You're a fucking idiot or what ??? Anti-sionists are being imprisoned and their opinions are being silenced in israel, WAKE THE FUCK UP.

    Seriously, pretending that this poll could be representative of the situation (meaning that the palestinian would prefer living in israel rather than their stolen homeland) IS THE MOST FUCKING STUPID THING I EVER HEARD

    And i will repeat it again : Of course it's better to live in israel because in palestine you are being continuously harrassed by the israeli army, in palestine you are being bombed, in palestine there is no food and no water, in palestine everyone is dying... BUT ALL OF THIS IS ISRAEL'S FAULT DUMBASS !!!!

    Let's say i build an army and invade your country, i destroy everything you have to all of your people will die of hunger, you will not have any water and your whole family will die.... I will build a wall between your people and me, and then i will make a shitty poll asking my people if they prefer to live with me or live on your side of the wall, where you are being bombed and where you have no education, no work, no food, no water.... WHO THE FUCK WOULD ANSWER THAT THEY PREFER TO LIVE IN THESE CONDITIONS ??
    Do you have a brain or what ?? Can you use it ??? How can you not realize these things ??

    Oh yeah it's probably better and more objective to ask israelian arabs in jerusalem if they are anti-sionist (considering all anti-sionist arabs have aready been killed/imprisoned/silenced)

    NO THERE'S ANOTHER THING TO DO --- FIGHT BACK

    You are being so fucking defeatist, comming from an anarchist that's ridiculous. That's like saying "if our country turns capitalist there's nothing to do we can't resist just look at the future"

    So you are saying that the majority of palestinians support israel because they are more wealthy and powerful ? hahahaha you're ridiculous

    Hey fucking moron, you're the one who started insulting me so fuck you. And yes i'm laughting, i don't see what else i can to do when confronted to your pro-war "anarchist" "arguments" in favor of israeli occupation.

    THIS IS an argument, you're just too fucking stupid to understand it. Of course no one will support palestinian side if they don't hear about what they are living. AND SINCE WHEN MEDIAS ARE A RELIABLE SOURCE ? Comming from an "anarchist" it's fucking funny... When is the last time that you heard medias talking about what israel is doing to palestine ? Israel have a powerful lobby in USA, their influence is everywhere including on the TV.

    How the fuck can you deny the fact that you will not get any support if nobody talks about the conflict ?? Yes, the palestinians will fight back because they know what's going on, but the rest of the world will not care because no one talks about it, no one is protesting against it... So the supposedly useless protests at embassies ARE waking people up and it's building an international solidarity movement.

    That's like saying we don't need anarchist propaganda or anarchist protests to get more activists fighting with us. USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN. Are you like 15 years old ?

    Oh my fucking god. Listen fucking dumbass, what the fuck would you do if you DIDN'T live in france ? You would keep bitching the anti-war protesters instead of helping them to spread the word about whats going on in france to get people to react ? If no one hear about it no one will want to help france.
    Anarchists are supposed to be against borders but to you if something is going on in palestine then it's up to the palestinian tofight back and if something happens in france then it's up to the french to solve the problem alone. That's fucking ridiculous.

    The working class has no country. Even during the spanish civil war the anarchists had to call for international support, they built international antifascist brigades and without international support they would have never had enough people to face the fascists. And this international struggle wouldn't have been possible without propaganda and protests in other countries to explain what's going on and why we need to support their fight.

    Look dumbass, here's another proof that protests and propaganda isn't useless. If nobody heard about nazi invading other countries and deporting jews then nobody would have cared about the WW2

    Anyway, you are still contradicting yourself again. You can't fight against nazi occupation since you said over and over again that fighting against occupation means supporting the other side, so you would support the french state. But once again you ignore these contradictions of your's

    And for the 3904803484th time, protests aren't useless even if its just waving flags at embassies... IT'S WAKING PEOPLE UP... We need to talk about what's going on in palestine... USA funds israel, give them military support, give them technology, etc.... Without US support israel is dead. So you can act in the USA even if you're not in palestine, it has the same impact. If the majority of the american population was aware of whats going on then maybe they would stop supporting israel. Just like the US government was forced to end vietnam war when there was too many protests against the war. But you're so fucking stupid that you probably think all these anarchists fighting against vietnam war were losing their time.

    A protest is just to inform people, in the same way that people write texts about the palestinian conflict to solidarize them with the fight. But to you protests are useless, so it's probably also useless and a waste of time to write texts about the palestinian conflict, anyway thanks to our great mass medias they are here to talk about the conflict like you said :lmao:
    If texts and propagandas against israel occupation is useful, then a protest is also useful

    Even if the protest was just to show SOLIDARITY with the people fighting in palestine, it's still worth it if it encourage them to keep up the fight.

    Once again i can talk about the exemple of greek anarchists, showing international support is very important but to you protests on embassies is probably useless since you're a fucking lazy idiot. But hopefully almost all anarchists are not stupid lazy selfish ass like you since there were protests everywhere in the world to support greek anarchists, in some countries they even bombed the embassies.

    What makes you look desperate is that you can't find something better to answer. I'm not putting anything out of context, this is exactly what you said, you're just an hypocrite who doesnt have the courage to admit hes contradictory on all points

    Hey fucking hypocrite, since the beginning of this topic you keep insisting that you can't separate "fighting against war" and "fighting for the liberation of palestine" and don't even try to deny it. You kept saying that if i was fighting against israeli war then i was supporting palestinian state and blah blah

    look some quotes from you:
    i dont have the patience to find the other quotes, anyway you're an hypocrite and you deny everything you said

    Oh great so now we should stop supporting everything, even anarchist protests !!! what a good reason to sit on your lazy ass

    What you are pretending that the anti-war movement against war didn't have an influence on the end of the war ? You're fucking crazy, you are a joke. Study history better.

    Anarchists protests also never changed anything. Maybe we should just stay in our homes like you do and never go to a protest again.

    Oh my god you are pathetic... You keep saying over and over again that fighting for foreign comrades is useless unless you go in their country and fight with them (but once again you will probably deny those affirmations).... So how the fuck are we supposed to support our comrades ? By sitting at home and doing nothing like you do ?

    Protests on the streets and in front of embassies is spreading a message and having an impact on the public opinion, the medias will talk about it and people will be solidarized. This is as effective as writing and distributing propaganda.


    It is largely debatable that the protests didn't have an effect on the end of the war but i will not even waste my time argueing on this since you won't listen to anything.

    Even the protests against iraq war had a lot of effect, and that's probably why obama was elected (because he was against the war). The protests also led france and germany to refuse participating in the iraq war

    Anyway, palestine is a very different thing since the USA is supporting israel and without US support then israel is dead. If there is enough protests, US will be forced to stop supporting israel. Maybe the next candidate for presidency would say he's against the war on palestine, and if enough people are protesting against the war he would use it as an argument to get elected. It worked for obama with iraq war, so why not for palestine ? But without protests nothing will happen

    I can't even believe i am currently trying to explain a SUPPOSEDLY anarchists how protests are effective, this is a real joke....

    Anyway why the fuck would you care about the vietnam war ? With everything you said....

    Those numbers are very questionnable.

    Anyway, there has to be a start somewhere, but because of idiots like you no one care about what's going on.

    Oh yeah so occupation is great if the invading country is superior in technology. You're a fucking idiot.

    For the 1 million'th time... THE PALESTINIANS DOESNT BENEFIT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY SINCE THEY ARE CONSIDERED AS THE ENEMY... dumbass.

    Anyway, thanks to the nazis and Afrika Korps who brought technology to africa :lmao: And thanks for the british apartheid on africa for bringing cool technology, thanks to china for bringing technology to tibet, etc... :lmao: you're really the most hilarious anarchist i ever seen.

    So what ? You still said that if we support the invaded side it means supporting their state, and the rwanda people want a state with laws and blah blah blah like you said "you will hit the branch but not the tree"... fucking contradictory hypocrite

    Oh and now we must not help the other side if they have some capacity of defending themselves (wow they are down to suicide bombing and some dirty weapons WOWWW WHAT A GREAT DEFENSE hey man they dont need our help anymore)..... The rwanda people was also capable of suicide bombing, idiot....

    So we should only support countries that can't defend themselves.... Oh wait, but you said we should support france during WW2 while france can defend themselves.... ANOTHER CONTRADICTION, IDIOT. You,re a fucking dumbass.

    I'll repeat myself again since you can't read : ISRAEL INVADED PALESTINE, NOT THE OPPOSITE.

    THE WHOLE JUSTIFICATION TO THIS OCCUPATION IS A RELIGIOUS REASON. PALESTINE IS SUPPOSEDLY THE PROMISED LAND FOR JEWS"

    They also justify the occupation based on some archeological searches, they pretend that this land belongs to the jews and so far the archeological searches have proved them wrong. I have a very interessing documentary about it, but you probably never heard of that story since you're an ignorant.

    Hahahahahaha that's what i said, you believe israel propaganda... Now the arab nations are making a big conspiracy against israel, they are all the new nazis, arabs are all anti semitists and want to kill all jews.... HEY WAIT, THIS IS EXACTLY ISRAEL STATE PROPAGANDA WORDS FOR WORDS

    God you believe israel propaganda without even questionning yourself, you're a fucking ignorant and i'm really sick of debating with you, you're propably a 15 years old kid who thinks he know everything. You quote texts but you probably don't even know what happenned in 1956, or during the Six Day War, you blame arabs for supporting their palestinian brothers.... You are definatly not an anarchist you're just an idiot.

    God you're a fucking idiot, i can't even believe what i'm reading, talking to you is just like talking to a sionist.... These wars were the justification israel used to invade palestinian territory, israel used the Six Day War to invade Gaza and THEY NEVER GAVE THEM BACK THEIR TERRITORY

    Yeah right, that's so easy to say after you invaded and annexed 90% of their lands, of course they want to fight to get it back, DUMBASS. And if the palestinians put down their weapons there would be no palestine anymore. Anyway, palestine isnt even recognized by most of the countries, already.

    Shut the fuck up sionist bastard, keep believing israeli state propaganda and thinking the arabs are responsible for whats happenning to them, you're just the biggest of the idiots. You're a sionist.

    Are you fucking kidding me ? Get yourself a brain, those countries were liberated from nazis not because of a revolution but because of the allies killing hitler.

    Get your facts from neutral source instead of believing sionist pro-israel propagand fucking idiot, the story is way more complex than two or three line of texts that you found on a sionist pro-israel website.

    Once again the arabs only FOUGHT BACK against israelians. The war started right after israel state was created, once again based on religious bullshit and because they had suffered during WW2. You, as an anarchist against religion, should be against a group of people who create their own state because some religious book said they have the right to..... RIGHT ? Oh wait, you're not an anarchist, you're just a sionist bastard. So that's probably why you blame the arabs for fighting back against jews who declared independance and started to make their own state... ON STOLEN LANDS

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80 ... .80.931948

    On May 14, 1948, one day before the end of the British Mandate of Palestine, Israel declared its independence and sovereignty on the portion partitioned by UNSCOP for the Jewish state. The next day, the Arab League reiterated officially their opposition to the "two-state solution" in a letter to the UN.[24] That day, the armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq invaded the territory partitioned for the Arab state, thus starting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The nascent Israeli Defense Force repulsed the Arab nations from part of the occupied territories, thus extending its borders beyond the original UNSCOP partition.[25] By December 1948, Israel controlled most of the portion of Mandate Palestine west of the Jordan River. The remainder of the Mandate consisted of Jordan, the area that came to be called the West Bank (controlled by Jordan), and the Gaza Strip (controlled by Egypt). Prior to and during this conflict, 711,000[26] Palestinian Arabs fled their original lands to become Palestinian refugees, in part, due to an alleged promise from Arab leaders that they would be able to return when the war had been won. Many Palestinians fled from the areas that are now present-day Israel as a response to alleged massacres of Arab towns by militant and terrorist[citation needed] Jewish organizations like the Irgun and the Stern Gang (See Deir Yassin massacre). Many historians speculate that these massacres took place with the intention of causing psychological distress amongst the Arab population, giving them ample reason and fear to flee their homes and surrounding areas.[citation needed] The War came to an end with the signing of the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and each of its Arab neighbours. This 1949 armistice line, the so-called green line, is to this day the internationally recognized border of the state of Israel. It is often referred to as the "pre-1967" border.
    This text proves that you're wrong on at least two points, and also prove that you should stop believing sionist propaganda

    1) israel started the hostility by stealing palestine land, like i claimed since the beginning
    2) israel did not give back the land after the conflict

    And EVEN if it was israel who started the war, it is still NOT A FUCKING REASON to steal their territories.

    Once again:
    [​IMG]
    This is what you call "After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured"

    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.
    Stop believing sionist propaganda.

    What is atrocious is that selfish egoist assholes like you say that "it's their fight not our's". You're not an anarchist, you have no sense of solidarity, and you're not an internationalist since you say it's not your fight only because they are in a different country.

    Arabs wanting back their STOLEN land is legitimate, just like it would be legitimate if i invaded your country and said it's right because my religious book said it. You, as an anarchist against religion, should agree. But oh wait, you're a fake anarchist.

    Also, i will repeat myself again:
    To say that ALL arabs share the same opinion about the solution is worst than racism, stop making so much assumptions and generalization.... There are many different propositons of a solution....
    Some wants to abolish israel
    Others want the borders of 1947
    Others want the borders of 1967
    Some wants a one-state solution
    Others want a two-state solution
    Etc....

    You see everything black-and-white and that's so annoying.

    Like israelians are doing in palestine. You kept denying it but you proved me right again, you're so contradictory.

    Nice once again you ignored my whole argument, instead you prefer to lower yourself to the level of linguistic racism. Listen fucking asshole, if you're not happy with my english just learn french and come talk to me. As for the insults, you started insulting me and your posts are full of insults so CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER because i insult you back.

    Fucking hypocrite bastard, you're full of contradiction.

    You keep repeating over and over the advantages of israeli occupation in palestine, you keep repeating that you don't care about the war so NO you don't oppose to war. You don't oppose the existence of israel neither, you're just lying, and of course you justify israel's action against palestine you keep bringing up sionist argument pretending that the arab started the war and blah blah blah, you say the occupation will be good for palestinians, etc...

    If everyone think like you and keep saying that protests and opposing war is useless because wars are a fatality then there will never be any big protest. Thanks to lazy selfish assholes like you.

    Linguistic racism again, nice, but comming from a fake anarchist it's not surprising.

    Yes you said that iraq war is helping iraq, you even quoted the post again but you still don't realize... you must be the biggest retard on the earth.

    - Ok so first i say that no war ever helped the occupied country
    - You say it's not true, and the example you give is IRAQ WAR, you post links showing money was donated to rebuild the country
    - This means that you are claiming iraq war has halped iraq

    In other words, here is your definition of "HELPING A COUNTRY WITH AN OCCUPATION ARMY":
    Step one : declare war, bomb their country during many years, kill a lot of people, destroy schools, block humanitarian help from entering the country and make billions and billions of damage
    Step two : give back a few millions to help the country rebuild WHAT YOU HAVE DESTROYED, and then claim you are helping the country
    Here you go, we got a form of what Mr Random Person calls "help"

    You said that israel occupation of palestine is a good thing for palestinians because their conditions of life will be better, so it's the same story with Iraq, they will be able to benefit of US technology, etc... But you're contradictory again

    Destroying a country and then giving some help to rebuild A PART of what you have destroyed IS NOT CALLED HELPING A COUNTRY, except in your pro-war sionist book.

    You're a fucking idiot and i'm really sick of explaining you, i did it at least 10 times. Israel will never help the palestinians because they consider them as terrorist, DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY BUILT A FUCKING WALL TO HELP THEM ??? They consider them as a danger, dumbass. NO THE CONDITIONS OF LIFE WILL NEVER BE BETTER BECAUSE OF ISRAEL. And they dont need them to get better conditions of life. If israel stopped the war the conditions would already be better.

    Linguistic racism again.

    See, again you are pretending that US occupation help iraq and a few quotes above you were denying it.

    Once again, destroying a country, making billions of billions of damage and then giving back a couple of billions to look good ISN'T CALLED HELP, except in your book

    HEY RETARD, IF US IS HELPING IRAQ I WONDER WHY ALL IRAQIS WANT TO SEE THEM OUT.... AND IF ISRAEL IS HELPING PALESTINE AND GIVING THEM BETTER CONDITIONS OF LIFE I WONDER WHY THEY WANT TO SEE THEM OUT.

    I always rethink my opinion but unlike you i am not a fucking ignorant, i know what i'm talking about, i could argue way more but it's already a pain in the ass to answer all the pro-sionist bullshit that you post. I have studied israeli-palestinian conflict since many years, i have a shitload of ressources and knowledge.... unlike you who realize he's wrong after a couple of posts.

    The whole anarchist movement supports palestine, but you're the only one claiming they are wrong to do... Maybe you should question yourself, everyone can't be wrong.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    For those who still care about other fights than those in their sectarian circle of selfish anarchists....

    The revolutionary contamination continue in the arab world... after tunisia, yemen, and egypt now there are protests everywhere : Morocco, Sudan, Jordan, Syria, Libya, Yemen... Read the news

    Egypt dissoluated the government, but the protesters aren't satisfacted, they want a regime change...
    The dictator is scared, he said he is willing to talk with the opposition parties...
    The opposition is planning a big protest on Tuesday, they plan to get at least 1 million of people on the streets

    Even China is scared, they censored everything related to the arab revolt because they're scared it may lead to people asking for reforms in china

    Solidarity ! (better than doing nothing and sitting on your lazy ass)
     
  8. Shuei

    ShueiExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Ungovernable:
    That's great news actually. I really hope this will lead to a bigger movement...
     
  9. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Can't shift the feeling that the US will intervene in manners to establish democracy as they envision it. It would be great to see a much greater political liberalisation of the Middle East region of the world but I am very doubtful that any great changes will occur. We can but hope...
     
  10. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    There's also massive protests in Algeria. Forgot to mention it.

    Caps, i doubt US will intervene, they don't have any advantage and the situation is way too much out of control, they can't be present in all arabs country and they would have absolutly no argument to justify it. So far Obama, the Europe Union and many presidents expressed their support to people fighting against dictatorship in tunisia and in egypt. I think it's funny because they are fucking hypocrite, all of them who said they support the people fighting against their dictators were supporting those dictators a few month ago.... Obama and Sarkozy who gave congratulations to tunisian and egyptian people always collaborated with those dictators, there are even some articles on the internet of Sarkozy and Obama congratulating Ben Ali and Egypt President and expressing their support.... Now that the people got rid of the dictators they pretend to support the people, what a fucking joke.
     
  11. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    yes, german reports are very surprising at the moment, comparing mubaraks situation with that of adolf hitler in the last days of april 1945 in the führerbunker in berlin - when the red army already camped in his front garden. embassy members blame mubaraks agents for instigating riots/looting and report that parts of the egypt army are refusing to shoot or serve for riotcontrol in the streets.

    on the other side the federal foreign ministry sends out warnings for egypt-tourists and mayor german corporations call back their employees to germany... :ecouteurs:
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Yeah same in canada, the government mobilized a couple of planes to get all canadians out of egypt, just like they did with tunisia and a couple of months ago with thailand
     
  13. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    I don't think we'll see military action from the US but Egypt is key to their Middle East policy. I can't see them allowing a revolution to get too far out of their political control. I was watching the BBC news and they were talking about how the US now supported the 'calls for democracy' but that they want the transition to be smooth - ie. to their liking. It will be interesting to see how things develop and I hope that this is the start of a new era, as was declared in that article. However, history suggests that the US will intervene in some fashion and will establish a political elite that favours their intentions.
     
  14. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    bit of something like a late insight in the EU:
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 58,00.html

    and i have great doubts that the EU will ever change this one:
    http://ec.europa.eu/world/enp/policy_en.htm
    (WARNING: don't read it if you have eaten anything two hours before...)
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    It wouldn't be the first arab ally that the US loose because of a revolution... For example, Iran was once a very good ally for US when the Shah was in power, but then the islamist revolution took him away and USA lost control over iraq. They didn't even attempt to intervene when they saw the revolution.

    A dictatorship like Saddam Hussein can easily be taken away, especially if a part of the country doesn't support him, but a revolution will most likely get more popular support so it's harder to take it away.
     
  16. Random Person From There

    Random Person From ThereExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Re: Riots in Cairo

    I answered it, read back, it was in the same reply to when you first said it either start reading or don't argue.

    Oh, I do nothing, absolutely nothing. I just on my lazy ass all day and bitch about people's doings. :lmao:

    Please do quote where I said that I do not care, if I did not care we wouldn't be debating here, would we?

    Oh? In that sense then yes, if the occupation continues but the war ends then there will be reconstruction and the state would be far better than what it is now. But I did not say that being occupied by a foreign power doesn't change anything, it does change a lot of things including the start of a war.

    What? This is no normal case of war, both sides are located near each other, the borders are mangled, one side has been formed upon another side, so it does leave many issues to be considered and these issues will and are leading to hatred between the two sides.

    I don't give a fuck about your stupid poll comming right from israeli propaganda bullshit, do you seriously think that a few people from jerusalem represent what the whole palestinian nation think about the occupation ?? You must be the most fucking stupid person to quote this poll and use it as an argument.... Anyway polls are bullshit, for each poll proving something you can find at least 2 others proving the exact same opposite thing...[/quote]
    This was a poll FOR JERUSALEM, and this does not deal with thoughts about the occupation, you cannot even read a poll? :ecouteurs:
    Good, go find me a poll proving otherwise and I'd be happy to reconsider. Now this guy says that polls are bullshit. :lmao:

    Oh fucking nice argument. "This poll is unfair because X is being silenced", yeah go tell that to Obama/Bush during the voting processes.

    Too bad if you cannot face a poll. Sad. :lmao: :lmao:

    NO FUCKING SHIT. Does it change the point that people in Jerusalem prefer living post-war in Israel due to social services? FUCK NO. Idiot.

    THE POLL WAS POST-WAR AFTER THE FORMATION OF A REAL STATE YOU FUCKING DIPSHIT. HOW CAN YOU NOT EVEN READ A FUCKING POLL? OH MY FUCKING GOD.

    And I thought I've seen the worst and best strawmen. Okay, so let's get this guy, the poll I presented is invalid because "all anti-sionist arabs have aready been killed/imprisoned/silenced". Nice. Good thing you're not managing any state affairs and present THAT as a reason why the poll was presented as so. Idiot.

    Oh wait, you got something right. "if our country" good job, kiddo. Now that also depends on what "our" country was before turning Capitalist, if it is in the interest of the Anarchists then it must be defended and reverted at all costs, if it was a Fascists or any of that sort then Capitalism is far better than Fascism.

    Wow.Simply... Wow... You cannot even read a sentence? I am saying that Palestinians would support Israel because they are more wealthy and powerful as opposed to the DESTROYED Palestine who cannot even offer respectful social services post-war. Now read that AGAIN and AGAIN before you even THINK of replying with another strawman.

    Omfg. You are a fucking idiot. Now I am insulting you. Please stop "laughting" ( :lmao: ) and read your posts, you'll enjoy comedy at its best. :D Pro-war "anarchist" "arguments" in favor of Israeli occupation? For the 1,000,000th time, YOU HAVE ONE FUCKED UP WAY OF TWISTED AND MANGLING SENTENCES.

    You fucking idiot, are you even undermining the effectiveness of the MEDIA? You fucking dipshit. If there was no corrupt media as it is, PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE CONCERNED WITH POLITICS AND WOULDN'T BE LISTENING TO JUSTIN BIEBER. That is no fucking argument, just because there's no international support, no one will know about the war.... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: idiocy at its best. Oh please, if you see me claiming that the media spreads news, then you should watch TV from now on or ask ANY guy on the street if he knows the events of Palestine from the TV or some random protest. Please do, will you call that unreliable too? :lmao:

    We are not talking about "people talking about the conflict" STOP RIGHT HERE AND GO ATTEND ENGLISH CLASSES.
    https://www.curriki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ ... 3wodPU4F1w
    http://www.englishcafe.com/online-cours ... 3wodHiL62w
    http://www.1-language.com/englishcourse/index.htm
    http://www.english-online.org.uk/course.htm
    No, I am not laughing or criticizing your language because you are not fluent in it, no one is, I'm pointing you to some free lessons to get you to START READING CORRECTLY.
    Now, we were not talking about "people talking about the conflicts", we were talking about the effectiveness of the pro-Palestinian protests which you claim is WHY THERE'S INTERNATIONAL AWARENESS and refuse to even THINK that the MEDIA DID THAT. Idiot.

    That's like saying we don't need anarchist propaganda or anarchist protests to get more activists fighting with us. USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN. Are you like 15 years old ?[/quote]
    Omfg. Who the fuck is talking about propaganda? Spread leaflets for all I care they're effective. Anarchist protests aren't really effective when you're made out to be terrorists on TV breaking windows and burning people.

    YOU REMOVED ANY REFERENCE OF THE FUCKING MEDIA. The media made those protesters AWARE in the first place. If that fight in France threatens the world or threatens us then I will fight in it, but if it is two countries fighting a war which IS NOT OURS IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE and upholding extremist religious values THEN FUCK THEM THEY ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS.

    The Palestinian-Israeli DOES NOT CONCERN ME NOR ANY WORTHWHILE ANARCHIST. Both of them are our fucking worst enemies, both of them support Iran or America, both of them support RELIGION BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. DO YOU SUPPORT THEM NOW YOU IDIOT?

    The Spanish Civil War was a fight for ALL ANARCHSITS YOU IDIOT, it was the Anarchists, Marxists, and peasants against the Fascists. THAT IS A WAR WORTH FIGHTING FOR. OH MY FUCKING GOD THIS DUDE IS AN IDIOT. Did I oppose propaganda? Did I FUCKING OPPOSE IT? NO.

    o_O :o
    Oh my fucking god. :o I need to consult a shrink after reading your pathetic strawman posts that attack imaginary "points" that I did not make such as propaganda. You even make the role of the media become NOTHING, which makes me not even want to read your fucking pathetic post in the first place.

    Wow, wow.

    For the 39902915u78019749018902470128941294812481294812- time, WAVING FLAGS AT EMBASSSIES DO FUCKING SHIT. Talk about what's going on in Palestine, no one fucking stops you, go on TV, go on the internet or go outside for once in your miserable lifetime. The USA sadly doesn't GIVE A FUCK about its population, otherwise the Iraq and Afghanistan wars would have been stopped a long time ago. I see more strawmen being headed my way by you. :/ Yes, they sadly were losing their time instead of fighting their OWN STATE, they're just asking for a reconsideration rather than the ABOLISHMENT of the state.

    Oh yes, it informs people a lot, especially when they show footage of Anarchists breaking windows and throwing Molotovs at the people's "friend" "the police". I bet he's going to read that in a wrong way. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Propaganda is useful because people are able to read them and determine for themselves, a protest leads to broken stores, burnt cars, chaos, or flag waving, hippy shit, chanting, and looking ridiculous with the kaffiyeh in order to show solidarity.

    Yes, it shows encouragement, there's not doubting that. But does it make international awareness and support for their cause? FUCK NO.

    Yes, waving flag to embassies is USELESS. If you want a protest to show solidarity with the actions of the Greek Anarchists then go do one near a state building, not some random embassy where they drink cups of tea in front of you and laugh. Oh you support the bombing of the embassies too? :lmao: Fucking twat, the bombs tore limbs off of WORKERS, and made them jobless. Not only that but the Anarchists were made out to be purely 100% TERRORISTS. Oh fucking great way to gain "international support", idiot. Don't even talk about solidarity with workers from now on, if you support them being killed by your fellow chaos Anarkids.

    Did you not even read it you idiot?

    What the fuck does "fighting against the israeli war then i was supporting liberation of palestine" with "I did not say fighting against a war is counter-revolutionary. Oh my.

    And I fail to see a contradiction here and above. Fighting against war means being anti-war, so how can you fight for the liberation of Palestine when you are ANTI-WAR?

    Did you not even fucking read and resort to another strawman? Idiot, fucking idiot. I'll make it in bold for you to read it.
    Understand now? Hope so.

    Links, read them?

    Hm, Anarchist protests if not resulting into Anarkids breaking shit to "FAYT KAPITALISM" or Pacifist bullfuck then they can result in solidarity, show of discontent on state-town level, show solidarity with the Anarchists, etc. As opposed to starting a protest against the war in Palestine hoping that it will MAGICALLY stop. :lmao:

    DUDE, DUDE, DUDE you are showing solidarity with YOUR SIDE not the ENEMY which is GOOD. Yes, I am molding my opinion as time passes since this is basically the first time I get into a pathetic discussion of the Palestinian war such as this. You can show support for your comrades overseas through MEANINGFUL protests just for solidarity, but nothing will happen if you show the enemy support, or request that a raging war be stopped over-night. Spreading the message? It spreads shit, the only thing it does is a state-town wide "message" and shows solidarity to your comrades overseas, but it does not stop wars, change the direction of a war, or end governments.



    If you will not debate the Vietnam War anti-war protests then do not even mention pacifist protests nor any anti-war protests which are considers infants of that movement. Had a lot of effect? Oh wow, look at Iraq and Afghanistan now, there's no war, it ended in 2003. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Thanks to the anti-war efforts of the masses. Yes, Obama was elected, changed shit worth mentioning, and ironicly, war's still happening.

    Oh same works here too: "Anyway, Palestine is a very different thing since Iran and the Arab nations are supporting Palestine and without Arab support then Palestine is dead." Nice one. :lmao:
    Oh yeah, if there's enough protests the US will be forced to stop its ally even when threatened by many countries and protets all over the world it did not. :lmao: It will not work for Palestine because it did not work in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    You cannot fathom the idea of the ineffectiveness of Pacifism and the Black Bloc and as a result I will not bother myself to explain.

    What does the Vietnam War have to do with anything? We were talking about the anti-war movement in the USA during the Vietnam War. English 101, dude.

    Questionable my ass, provide a counter-argument or don't even mention it. Dude, let's say that 50%, not 80% or even 30-40% of the country was against the war. That is a FUCKING HUGE number, we're talking millions of angry people.

    WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF PALESTINE BEING ANNEXED IN THE FUTURE. Oh my fucking god, he doesn't even both to read. Oh so you do not even believe that should Palestine and Israel BECOME ONE or somehow annexed that then there would not be any shared technology whatsoever? :lmao: That the living standards will not be better? That social services will nto be offered? Oh fucking great, I'm debating with an imbecile.

    Dude. Dude. Fucking dude. The invaded side in this case is DEFENSELESS, read it? No? DEFENSELESS. Palestine is NOT DEFENSELESS. See the difference? RWANDA was being MASSACRED, Palestine is not, or do you somehow see Israeli soldiers going into homes and shooting everyone inside? If so then please direct me to some source that says so. If you have no source, do not even reply.

    Suicide bombing and dirty weapons, and you claim that Israel is the only one doing atrocities and war crimes? Fucking idiot. Rwanda people were a different case than Palestine, that was a fucking genocide massacre, the latter is a WAR.

    You said if I LIVED IN FRANCE, and if the country would prove to be of any interest to the Anarchist cause. Later in the war, France was unable to defend itself, and that is where support needs to be made, when it becomes a fucking butchery on a defenceless people.

    What the fuck does that have to do with the declaration of WAR BY THE ARABS AGAINST ISRAEL? No, it was Palestine and the Arabs that started the war.


    YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE PIECE OF USELESS SHIT, CAN'T YOU EVEN READ BEFORE YOU REPLY?

    This is from a pro-Israel website, weird but alas interesting:

    You are pissing the fuck out of me with your ignorance and idiocy. READ THAT. WHAT I QUOTED WAS FROM THAT WEBSITE I LINKED, I DID NOT SAY THAT YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

    Shut the fuck up sionist bastard, keep believing israeli state propaganda and thinking the arabs are responsible for whats happenning to them, you're just the biggest of the idiots. You're a sionist[/quote]
    People, this guy is a hopeless case, an idiot that replies without even reading, that gets mixed up between a QUOTED SOURCE and my reply. Shut the fuck up, you idiotic piece of shit and reply to my argument with an ACTUAL ARGUMENT. FUCKING GOD.

    [quot]
    Are you fucking kidding me ? Get yourself a brain, those countries were liberated from nazis not because of a revolution but because of the allies killing hitler.[/quote]
    ... :'( :ecouteurs:
    This guy... He... :ecouteurs: I mean... Wow... I cannot get myself to reply to such a gigantic strawman. :|

    You fucking dipshit, I listed MULTIPLE SOURCES AS WELL AS SUGGESTED YOU GOOGLE YOURSELF, yet you only focused on a single website that I backed myself away from and claimed that it was ONLY interesting but weird. Now, reply to this argument or get the fuck out.

    You, as an Anarchist against religion, borders, states, should be against a group of people who create their own state based on religion, borders, and states. YOU FUCKING IDIOT. EVERY COUNTRY IS A STOLEN LAND, BEING BASED ON A BOOK IS NO LESS NO MORE WRONG OR RIGHT. YOU ARE AN I-D-I-O-T.

    Your text proves me right, the Arabs DECLARED WAR ON ISRAEL. Get it into your thick empty head. Most of it was taken AFTER the war was declared and territories taken during the fighting. After the conflict? There have been several conflicts, pick one.

    No you idiot, that was the PLAN for the partition 1947, in 1948 and onwards land was amassed by the Israelis, shall we then say no borders or will you continue on defending your beloved borders and states? Pathetic.

    Who's believing Zionist propaganda you idiot? I quoted one source ONE SOURCE and called it fallible yet you won't shut the fuck up about it and resort to calling me Zionist for some reason or another. Fucking idiot, that's who I'm arguing with.
    Stop believing Palestinian propaganda.
    Stop believing Paletsinian propaganda.
    Stop believing Palestinian propaganda.
    Stop believing Palestinian propaganda.

    Oh shut the fuck up already, this is not OUR FIGHT, it's not even related to Anarchist struggle you idiot. I have explained it for 14124141124 times YET YOU CANNOT GET INTO INTO YOU FUCKING EMPTY HEAD. THEY ARE NOT OUR ALLIES NOR ARE THEY OUR FRIENDS, BOTH OF THEM ARE OUR FUCKING ENEMIES YOU IDIOTIC RETARD.

    NO COUNTRIES, NO FUCKING BORDERS GOT IT YOU FUCKING RETARD?

    And I will repeat myself since your ARGUMENT IS VOID and proves SHIT.
    This dude has never heard of hyperbole. There is absolutely NO arguing that the majority want Israel to be abolished, including official claims by nations in support of Palestine. Basically it is only Jews that want the old borders, Arabs and especially Palestinians want all their land back (abolishment of Israel).

    And again: This dude has never heard of hyperbole. There is absolutely NO arguing that the majority want Israel to be abolished, including official claims by nations in support of Palestine. Basically it is only Jews that want the old borders, Arabs and especially Palestinians want all their land back (abolishment of Israel)

    And AGAIN TILL YOU FUCKING COMPREHEND:This dude has never heard of hyperbole. There is absolutely NO arguing that the majority want Israel to be abolished, including official claims by nations in support of Palestine. Basically it is only Jews that want the old borders, Arabs and especially Palestinians want all their land back (abolishment of Israel)

    You retard, heere's some statistic and the since mot of the fucking internet is filled with Palestinian "innocence" and being massacred here's some fun facts:

    "THE ARCHIVES of The Palestine Post, now The Jerusalem Post and then the newspaper of record of Mandatory Palestine, provide some of the answers and tell a very different story from the one presented by Pappe.

    Sixty-two Jews were murdered by Arabs in the first week after the UN partition plan was passed, and by May 15, 1948, a total of 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists and army units which attacked every place of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine.

    The attacks succeeded in placing Jerusalem under siege and eventually cutting off its water supply. All Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go about the country in convoys. In every major city where Jews and Arabs lived in mixed neighborhoods the Jewish areas came under attack. This was true in Haifa's Hadar Hacarmel as well as Jerusalem's Old City

    Massacres were not uncommon.

    THIRTY-NINE Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifa's oil refinery on December 30, 1947. On January 16, 1948, 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion. On February 22, 44 Jews were murdered in a bombing on Jerusalem's Rehov Ben-Yehuda. And on February 29, 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine, eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry.

    Thirty-five Jews were murdered during the Mount Scopus convoy massacre on April 13. And 127 Jews were massacred at Kfar Etzion on May 15, 1948, after 30 others had died defending the Etzion Bloc.

    IN Arab countries more than 100 Jews were also massacred and synagogues were burned in Aleppo and Aden, driving thousands of Jews from their homes.

    Back in Palestine many small kibbutzim were subjected to attacks, including Gvulot, Ben-Shemen, Holon, Safed, Bat Yam and Kfar Yavetz - all in December. In January and February, it was the turn of Rishon Lezion, Yehiam, Mishmar Hayarden, Tirat Zvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein Hanatziv, Magdiel, Mitzpe Hagalil and Ma'anit.

    In March and April these attacks culminated with an assault on Hartuv by 400 Arabs based in the village of Ishwa and an attack on Kfar Darom by members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Arab attackers also bombed The Palestine Post in February. In March, the Jewish Agency, the Solel Boneh building in Haifa and an Egged bus were also bombed."


    and http://www.therolladailynews.com/opinio ... -countries

    "• Algeria-140,000 Jews in 1948, less than 100 today.
    • Yemen-55,000 Jews in 1948, less than 200 today.
    • Egypt-80,000 Jews in 1948, less than 100 today. Twenty-five thousand Jews allowed to keep one suitcase each and forced to sign declaration “donating” their property to Egypt.
    • Iran-100,000 Jews in 1948, 25,000 today.
    • Libya-30,000 Jews before 1945, -0- today. In 1945, 140 Jews were murdered in Tripoli.
    • Iraq-150,000 Jews in 1948, less than 40 today. In 1941, 180 Jews were murdered in Baghdad pogrom.
    • Lebanon-30,000 Jews in 1948, less than 30 today.
    • Morocco-500,000 Jews in 1948, less than 700 today.
    • Syria-30,000 Jews in 1948, less than 100 today. Two-hundred homes shops and synagogues destroyed in 1947 in Aleppo.
    • Tunisia-105,000 Jews in 1948, less than 1,500 today.

    Jews had vibrant communities in many of these countries 2,000 years before Islam was born.

    Israel absorbed almost all of these homeless Jewish/Arab refugees. Currently, they and their descendents comprise over 50% of Israel’s population.

    The value of Jewish property stolen by the above Arab/Muslim countries is $80 billion in today’s worth.

    Jewish owned land stolen by Arab/Muslim countries consists of 38,625 square miles. Israel’s total area is 7,992 square miles.

    Yet the UN provides no compensation for these Arab/Jewish refugees and does compensate Palestinians.

    If Obama wants Israel to stop building homes for Jews in Jerusalem, maybe its time Israel demanded the return of the present wealth of property stolen from Jews in Arab/Muslim countries as a part of any “peace.”"


    Call it "Zionist propaganda", too bad it's based on facts. Everything defending Israel or Jews or the middle-ground is being labeled "Zionist propaganda" nowadays. Too bad, fuck 'em both anyway. I have not provided any sources claiming massacres performed by the Israelis not because they did not and are not happening, but because I have to prove you wrong (as always).







    Linguistic racism. Wow. And yes I do know French, and I can speak French Lebanon and parts of Egypt taech Arabic, English, and French in their schools. Linguistic racism... :lmao: You retard, THAT WAS NO ARGUMENT, you put words into my mouth and claim that I think that Palestine SHOULD be annexed by Israel when I was only saying IF IT WERE ANNEXED BY ISRAEL YOU PATHETIC IDIOT. Go read it again.


    I repeat over and over the advantages of Israeli occupation in Palestine? I WAS TALKING IF IT WERE ANNEXED NOT AS IT IS NOW. I don't oppose the exitence of Israel and I'm lying? WHAT THE FUCK. This guy is full of shit, he can think for me, and puts words into my mouth. You idiotic FUCK, since WHEN I am WITH the existence of ANY NATION? You make me lose hope for the Anarchist movement, if everyone turns out to be an idiotic retard such as yourself then there's no point really in calling yourself an Anarchist.

    "Pretending" that the Arabs started the war? Oh my fucking god. I GAVE YOU SOURCES, YOU GAVE ME NOTHING. Retard.

    Oh, awesome argument, I love this guy. He can never form up an argument.


    Linguistic racism, dude. You're an illiterate idiot who cannot even think. LIVE WITH IT.

    OH MY FUCKING LORD. I NEVER said the Iraq war is helping Iraq you fucking dimwit, I PROVED YOU WRONG by showing you that AN OCCUPATIONAL ARMY INDEED OFFERED AID TO AN OCCUPIED COUNTRY. THAT was the argument. So shut the fuck up now, kthxbai.

    This was what you said: "IN THE WHOLE HISTORY AN OCCUPATION ARMY NEVER HELPED THE PEOPLE"
    Then I replied: "HAHAHHAHA. Right. Yes, of course. Do not like the sources? Too bad.
    Website for your liking: http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/
    http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/05/iraq-germany/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Iraq
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq ... tion_N.htm

    And that's only from Iraq"


    Don't put words into my mouth again for the sake of your arguement. :lmao:

    I have repeated it once, twice, FORTY MILLION FUCKING TIMES YET YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND. I WAS SAYING THAT SHOULD, IF, POSSIBLY AFTER, MAYBE, PERHAPS, THAT PALESTINE IS ANNEXED BY ISRAEL IT WILL BE BETTER THAN IT IS NOW. And possibly better than it was before and after the war if under Paestine's state rule, why? LEARN FUCKING ECONOMICS YOU DIMWIT. Better economy, BETTER SOCIAL SERVICES. Bad economy? LESS SOCIAL SERVICES. Basically that, and we're not even taking into account war, and reconstruction.

    The point is AT LEAST THEY PROVIDED AID. And that is enough to prove you wrong. Next.

    Oh my god, oh my fucking god. THEY CONSIDER THEM AS TERRORISTS AND DANGER BECAUE THEY ARE AT WAR. AFTER THE WAR THEY WILL TURN INTO CIVILIANS. This guy, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a fucking idiot.

    Linguistic racism? I hope you don't start calling it racism of idiocy when you start reading your posts and your strawmen.

    "Pretending that the US occupation help Iraq" FOR THE 325897205829525th time, I AM NOT SAYING THE US OCCUPATION OF IRAQ IS HELPING IRAQ YOU FUCKING IDIOT. I PROVED TO YOU THAT AN OCCUPATIONAL ARMY PROVIDED AIDS TO THE OCCUPIED PEOPLE WHICH YOU BLATANTLY DENIED AND HERE'S YOUR FUCKING PROOF ABOVE.

    WHO THE FUCK IS AYING THAT THE US AND ISRAEL ARE HELPING IRAQ AND PALESTINE BY GOING TO WAR WITH THEM. OH MY FUCKING LORD. You, you are the most idiotic person I have EVER SEEEN and that's counting a lot seening as I've seen some of the worst. Bravo, little Ungovernable, you built yourself the biggest series of strawmen ever. Here you go, you idiot. Now next time please try to REPLY TO MY POST AND WHAT I HAD SAID instead of making shit up or replying to shit I never said or meant.


    Your studies have proven to be worth shit, and all other studies against Palestinian propaganda is ALWAYS Zionist propaganda by your standards, every killed Jew is a myth. :lmao:

    Oh yes, if you were in Nazi Germany and saw hundreds of Nazis kicking a Jew, do you join in just because "the whole X movement supports Y" and because "everyone can't be wrong"? :lmao:

    Yeah nice. You cannot even base anything out of anything and you even reply to things I never said. Bravo, Ungovernable. :lmao: Turns out that I wasted my time arguing with a complete fool.
     
  17. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada United States
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    I'm not even going to waste my time argueing with you, you're a fucking sionist that's all i have to say. You keep posting bullshit sionist propaganda taken straight from pro-israelian sionist website, you're a total idiot, and even if i actually try to explain you can't admit you're wrong so you keep posting the same bullshit over and over again. Israel stolen palestine land BEFORE PALESTINE DID A SINGLE THING AGAINST ISRAEL and then you blame them for fighting back, you always blame palestinian, you're worse than a fucking sionist. Actually you proven that you're not anything close of an anarchist, you are just a pro-war moronic piece of shit and in a few years you will end up voting for Conservative Party since you think wars are positive for people being attacked. This is the most ridiculous pro-war argumentation i have read in my whole life and its coming from a so-called anarchist, how fucking ironic.

    Well fuck you dude, i had respect for you before you started making a fool of yourself with your pro-war sionist argument bullshit, i am not going to lose any more of my time arguing with your sionist ass.

    By the way, there is a big sign of peace on the banner of this website, i wonder what the fuck you are doing on this website if you don't care about the war and that you don't want to fight against it because it's a waste of time (yes thats what you said, even if you will deny it again because you're a fucking hypocrite). Maybe you should join an anarcho-sionist forum instead of this one, you will make a lot of friends there.

    You keep contradicting yourself over and over again, you lowered yourself to the point of saying that palestine should be annexed by israel because they will have a better life and that US occupation is actually helping iraq because they're giving them money (and then you denied it even if the quotes of what you said are all over the page). There is no point of argueing with a douchebag that will deny what he said a couple of hours ago even if we put the quote in his face. Then you resort to calling name and linguistic racism, but that's not really surprising coming from a fake anarchist. You find the most stupid reasons in the world to excuse your lazy selfishness such as "i don't care", "it's their fight not mine", "they can defend themselves" (defending themselves with a desperate suicide bombing once every 6 months against an army with top-technology is what you call "being capable of defending themselves")

    You're now down to putting words into my mouth, pretending that i don't admit that the palestininans have commited attrocities (i'm saying since the beginning i dont support extremists, terrorists, hamas, etc.. but you still put words into my mouth), you pretend that i deny killed jews, etc... you deform everything i have said and you keep putting words into my mouth. Fuck you. I am not going to debate with someone using manipulation tactics like that. Not only you copy/paste zionist propaganda, but you also act like them.

    Anyway, i will only suggest you do do one thing. Ask 20 persons around you if they are aware of what's going on in palestine. After you realize that nobody know what's going on then maybe you will realize THAT'S WHY WE NEED PROTESTS AND WAVING FLAGS TO RAISE PUBLIC AWARNESS, FUCKING RETARD. I can't even believe i am teaching a so-called anarchist how protests are useful for a cause and to raise public awarness. You're a joke.

    Basically, your arguments would also means that all struggles anarchists are taking part in are a waste of time since it never changed anything. Protests against government never led to stopping the government, supporting workers on strike and workers union never led to a revolution, solidarity with immigrants is useless, solidarity with arrested and imprisoned comrades is useless, we should only support anarchists, etc.... Once again, you're a joke, a big fucking joke, your whole argumentation is a BIG JOKE.

    Random Person, you are a sionist, and you are a big fucking joke.
     
  18. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    And now back to our regular programming... :S

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xWiBCIxjIk[/video]

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtYLBQPRGQ[/video]

    also check this blog:

    http://inanities.org/2011/01/378/
     
  19. Random Person From There

    Random Person From ThereExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aug 27, 2010
     
    Re: Riots in Cairo



    Got called Zionist 9 times. Fun.

    And "that palestine should be annexed by israel because they will have a better life and that US occupation is actually helping iraq because they're giving them money (and then you denied it even if the quotes of what you said are all over the page). There is no point of argueing with a douchebag that will deny what he said a couple of hours ago even if we put the quote in his face."
    Yeah, for anyone reading this, please do look backward a few posts and pages and find me saying that Palestine should be annexed, and that the war on Iraq is helping Iraq. Those are, obviously false strawmen directed at me which I refuted countless time:
    1- I said that we should take the case that IF Palestine were to be annexed by a superior economical force, I never said it must be.
    2- I only talked about US aids to Iraq to prove that indeed occupational forces have given aid to the occupied country and its people, solely to prove you wrong, which I did.

    Yeah, "By the way, there is a big sign of peace on the banner of this website", well let me ask you this: Do you support a violent bloody revolution, reformism, or Pacifism then?

    Totally siggied. :D

    They chose to use suicide bombing, they can always buy a cheaper Kalashnikov or get some free ones from Iran or Syria. Oh and that suicide bombing is targeted at innocent people, which is in your case: Genocide.


    In that case, I do apologize for misunderstanding and not being able to predict that you admit massacres being made by both sides. But really, compared to the paragraphs you put into my mouth, a simple misunderstanding is nothing.

    Nah dude, every person I know is aware of the Palestinian conflict even if the protests here do not affect them. Why do you ask? Well simply due to the immense amount of religious conflict and separation over here. People (Christians)do not care about Palestine due to the simple fact that it is being backed by Muslim extremists, Iran, Syria, and Hizb-Allah and do not even mention Israel since it is considered as a taboo now. It's basically indoctrination at schools and the media that made them aware of the Palestinian conflict. I defend Palestine when it is attacked by people and Israel when it is attacked by others, not through war and not because I side with each, but just to give an amount of "fairness" to it, you know eclectic of sorts.

    Yep, and he says I put words into his mouth. No, I advocate Anarchist struggles but I say it, and keep on saying that the violent (Black Bloc) and the Pacifist protests are at times counter-revolutionary, why? Simply because:
    1- The media portrays the Black Bloc as random angry teenagers breaking shit up without a reason and people believe that.
    2- Pacifism. What more can I say?

    Now that it is over with, can we be friends now? :ecouteurs:
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 34 years old
    Canada United States
    Re: Riots in Cairo

    Once again lies lies lies, hypocrisy and denial of what you said. Expected it. I am not even going to debunk all your lies and bullshit since you do that all the time.

    Yes you are a zionist. Being zionist means supporting the state of israel. You support it by wasting your energy writing a fucking book on how we should NOT fight against israel and we should NOT support palestine. You even brought up some zionist arguments from a zionist website. You keep argueing that the war is positive and same thing for the occupation of palestine. Starting from now i will always call you zionist. And i'm not even talking about your stupid arguments like "if you want palestine to get back their land they had before the invasion then you support borders" ....

    We're not talking about a revolution, we're talking about a military conflict between two states, and you pretend that fighting against it is a waste of time. Not only you think it's useless, but you also waste your time fighting against those who defend palestine and fight against war, just like you proved it on this topic. Why the fuck did you join a website where one of the three main logo is a peace sign, meaning you should be against palestine occupation ?

    By the way, fake anarchist wasn't an insult it's a fact, someone who act like you and support the things you do isn't even close to be an anarchist. At best, you're an anarcho-zionist.


    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

    once again you make yourself look like a fucking idiot.

    Food and water can't even enter the country and you think that it's easy for them to get kalashnikovs hahahaha you're the biggest clown on earth. If they could get them they would do it.

    As for your zionist argument about suicide bombing, yeah you are right this image proves that Palestine is doing a genocide on israel, look how they are killing everyone and stealing their land!!
    [​IMG]
    hahahahahaha who's making a genocide ?? right... the palestinians

    and i suppose that palestinians killed by israel were not innocent, they were bad terrorists, blame them for fighting back to defend their families and their land !!!!

    Your argument is worse than your comrades from the Jewish Defense League argument.... Even them can do better than you.

    Let's blame the whole palestinian people for the acts of a minority of terrorists..... Just like the far-right is doing !!! Soon you are going to pretend that all palestinians are terrorists that's why they deserve occupation

    Look i will even help you, i found you a source from your Zionist comrade quoting some bullshit similar to what you have posted earlier, they say that 75% of the palestinians support suicide bombing. Look, you have the proof that they're all terrorists, thanks to your zionist source!!! Now let's send the bombs.
    http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/s ... c_0049.htm
    "a substantial majority (76.1%) support suicidal attacks" - Zionist Website
     
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