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Meat?

Discussion in 'Anarchism and radical activism' started by ChaosUK, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. ChaosUK

    ChaosUKActive Member Forum Member


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    I have a question on the consumption and purchase of meat.
    Now I'm completely aware of the harmful exploitation of animals that does exists and which all corporations that sell or supply meat take part in. But honestly I really like meat. One of the major things i want to do is become more of an anarchist, but I really like meat and I don't want to give it up.
    So, is there a way for me to still eat meat without supporting the exploitation of animals and without supporting corporations? I don't want to farm my own animals to do this (and I'm not quite sure if it's legal to either, at least not in MI). Any ideas or can anyone share how they obtain non-corporate meat? Also, is Halal meat acceptable? From my knowledge of Islamic law, they don't bless the meat, but they kill the animal in the least painful way. So would Halal meat be acceptable to eat (Also from my knowledge, most of the Middle Eastern markets around my place get their meat from their own farms, or from non-corporate sources)

    Any ideas?
     

  2. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    i don't know much about islamic dietary "laws" - so i might be wrong:

    i think "halal" (arabic: permitted) only means that a muslim can eat the meat because it's free of anything coming from pigs - in other words: it's not pork - which is "haaram" (arabic: forbidden - and btw:
    harem is coming from "haaram")

    the way to kill an animal is called "Dhabiha" - a quick cut through windpipe and major arteries/venes, but leaving the vertebrate intact - due to the cut of oxygen flow to the brain the animal looses consciousness quickly - but if it's less painfull?
    i've seen it several times and i think it's not better than the western/industrial methods, the slaughterhouses are very similiar - the only difference is the amound of technology used.
    the animals have to smell the blood of the already slaughtered, they get restless, try to escape or make a stand to defend themselves - even sheeps don't want to die, you can hardly get around that.

    farmers in germany started kinda self-marketing/producing and selling meat under strict control of the health authorities - you can buy their stuff on the farm and most of it is much more "natural" than the industrial stuff you get from the supermarket - but it's more expensive too.
     
  3. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  4. ChaosUK

    ChaosUKActive Member Forum Member


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  5. Derek Danger

    Derek DangerExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I've been trying to reduce my impact on the Earth and its creatures recently by adhering (as strictly as I can, because changing your diet is a process that shouldbe undertaken slowly, so as to avoid negative health effects) to waste-subsistence ideals (dumpster diving, table surfing) for much of my food. Now, if you wanted to continue to eat meat I would not recommend dumpster-diving it, as meat that goes to the dumpster often turns rancid far more quickly than bread or vegetable items.

    However, have you considered shoplifting, scamming, or otherwise obtaining meat by covert means? This reduces your impact by meaning that you aren't actually providing money to the corporations who produce the meat or the chain stores who sell it. It is also preferable to buying meat, as every bit you steal or scam is a few dollars taken out of the bottom line of the companies in the chain. However, I don't wish to say that this is ethically or ideologically as sound as avoiding meat altogether, as in this situation you are still consuming the product that the meat manufacturers are creating unethically, you're just not rewarding them for it.

    Otherwise, you could investigate animals in your area which are culled as pests, and speak to the agencies who perform the culls, to find out who the meat is sent on to and if you could buy some wholesale. Again, this is still not too ethically sound as far as "reduced-impact" goes, but it is a step in a different direction, and while the suffering of animals is still part of the equation (as it always must be for a human to eat meat, really) at least corporate greed and mass-farming is not such a big issue.

    I suppose that's a lot of information; chew it over, see what you think.
     
  6. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Though I know he's hated in some circles round here, I'd recommend reading The Ethics of What we Eat by Peter Singer with Jim Mason. It reviews three families' dietary choices and some other ideas besides.
     
  7. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    good tip - a bit polemical here and there, but a good book to make up one's own mind/opionion.
     
  8. cheyannepiacenza

    cheyannepiacenzaExperienced Member Experienced member


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  9. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Apr 17, 2010
     

    You're still supporting the production. Doesn't matter if a company loses a few bucks off of your heist, they still need to produce more to fill the empty space you just created.






    As far as this topic goes, Just go Vegan. I used to love meat too., and coca cola, and all other sorts of hedonism that comes at a price. Part of being an anarchist is sacrificing luxuries for the greater good, and for a reason larger than yourself.



    EDIT:
    Sorry, didn't read this before I replied.
     
  10. RobbyKills

    RobbyKillsMember Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2011
     
    yeah honestly, and I don't want to sound like a jerk or holier than thou, but really, if you care about animal exploitation just stop eating meat. A free range grass-fed cow is still being kept around for exploitation, and will still die a painful as fuck death. I really want to stress the fact that I'm not trying to sound like an asshole, just keep in mind that there's no such thing as "happy" meat. I will say though that going the non-factory farmed route is a step in the right direction, and I encourage you to one day consider vegetarianism.

    I used to love meat too. Then I first cut out red meat, after a while of no red meat I cut everything else out, and now a days I'm vegan for the most part, though sometimes I will eat non-vegan food in a moment of weakness or to keep something from going to waste. No one's perfect.

    Also lots of videos secretly recorded in slaughterhouses have come out showing that Halal/Kosher preparation is often just as shitty and brutal to the animals.
     
  11. RobbyKills

    RobbyKillsMember Forum Member


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    Apr 4, 2011
     
    also I recommend this documentary on the state of slaughterhouses and exploitation:
    http://www.documentarywire.com/earthlings

    EDIT: Skip to the 23 minute mark or so for footage of "Kosher" butchering in a slaughterhouse
     
  12. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Earhlings is a good documentary. Covers more than just your typical slaughterhouse videos.
     
  13. PhantomMentalis

    PhantomMentalisMember New Member


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    Apr 20, 2011
     
    Zabiha Halaal is usually the most reliably consistent meat. There are a few places in mi that you can obtain it, depending where you live. In response to the posts above, although there are some who abuse the animals, most aren't like that. I've actually killed a cow myself, and it really isn't that bad for the animal. The animal experiences shock for a few seconds, then it goes into a deep coma. It actually warms up and almost feels euphoric. The heart actually keeps beating and pumping the blood out (which actually makes the meat healthier to eat, considering most contaminants are contained in blood). The animal then dies a painless death. Now one thing I must admit: yes, they do smell the previous animals blood and do get nervous, but that would happen even if you hunted by hand. I've pretty much managed to avoid 'outside meat' my entire life. It's tough but doable.
     
  14. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Jun 21, 2010
     
    How do YOU know?

    Don't get me wrong, I've done fishing in the past and guttet quite a number of them, I might do so again - but I know for sure they didn't enjoyed it to be hooked up and killed - and for sure:
    I don't want to be treated the same way...

    The Halal-method might look much more "humane" than the industrial method - but your example of a single cow doesn't deal with the industry and the mass production/mass slaughtering - and isn't Zabiha Halaal already a chain of mass producing farms?
     
  15. PhantomMentalis

    PhantomMentalisMember New Member


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    Apr 20, 2011
     
    Raising animals by hand, you learn a little bit about their moods and such. Also, inferencing from symptoms of when humans go into similar shock induced comas.

    I can't say anything about fish. I'm going to be limiting myself to mammals here.

    It's not a corporation or anything. As far as I know, it's simply the proper method of doing it. There are some that would consider halaal to be saying a prayer over a tape while running a standard factory farm. I wouldn't eat that. This method pretty much assures that animal was killed properly.
     
  16. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Remembered it wrong:
    The Chain are the Maple Lodge Farms in Canada - and they use Zabiha Halaal as a brand to sell:
    http://www.zabihahalal.com/

    And fish or mammal - they have a nervous system, feel pain, panic and terror - I'm not sure about the "shock theory" and with my experience I think there is no "easy death", and we shouldn't forget or relativize that, even if the final position is - without doubt - everybodys personal choice.

    AND there is still the problem that not everybody can raise his own cattle...
     
  17. PhantomMentalis

    PhantomMentalisMember New Member


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    Apr 20, 2011
     
    I've actually been to the Maple Lodge factory. They're not a bad company afaik.
    When you break your arm, you feel no pain. Same concept.

    That is, until the adrenaline wears off.
     
  18. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    Dec 15, 2010
     
    i'm effectively vegetarian and eventually will probably effectively go vegan. i say "effectively" because any meat i encounter on a day to day basis is so likely to be from a factory/exploitative farm, and i don't care enough about meat to put any effort into differentiating between food sources. however, I would say that the most morally sound source of meat is probably from hunting. Hunting for sport is being a dick, but for food, it beats eating domesticated animals. domesticated animals are ALWAYS born into cages (including humans!), no matter how comfortable or horrific those cages are. hunting has been practiced by mankind and many other species for hundreds of millions of years. as always, life feeds on life, and other life must be sacrificed so that we may live. that said, allowing that life to exist in a natural, dignified environment is the least we can do, and is the least we should expect of and for ourselves.
     
  19. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Guess we turn vegetarian completely as soon as our kids are old enough and don't need the vitamins and stuff from meat not longer to grow up - and they already complain about the smell of the supermarket packages...
    In our area we have no chance to get around the industrial products, so we reduced or consumation - meat twice a week, sausages for breakfast and the workers lunch, milk products all the time - but finally...
    It's not only the bad feeling about the food chain and the disgust about the cheap trash from the supermarket - feeding cattle is a waste of food resources and meat consumption may be a tool to keep the people quiet and satisfied while everything else is falling apart - and we don't want to support that.

    Since Tschernobyl hunting in our area isn't what it used to be before - after 25 years you still have to apply to the food authority to get your prey controlled for caesium 137 pollution before the consumation is legal - and they still confiscate an unknown but relevant percentage of ree deers, wild boars and even hares. (and it's still recommended not to eat mushrooms and other stuff fromm the woods - so I wasn't surprised that primitivists around here started to glow in the dark after their weekend in the wilds...)
     
  20. JesusCrust

    JesusCrustExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    GO Vegan!
     
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