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Lady Gaga is one of us!

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by SurgeryXdisaster, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Okay I think it is time I answer my own questions then... I have yet to actually state my opinion, rather I have been trying to find out what some of your opinions are beyond just the reactionary initial opinion. Thanks to those who put some thoughts into it.

    1.) Should we hate an artists, actor, musician, etc. based purely on how much money they have?

    No I do not think that money alone should be a factor of not liking someone, it should be based upon what they do with what they have. On that same note don't trust all rich people who do good things with some of their money, look at why they are doing them, and look at what they have done to get that money. For example, Mc Donald's has the Ronald Mc Donald house, which has done a lot of good for kids with terminal illness', however they do it as a tax right off, and it doesn't come close to changing the fact that they are a horrible corporation that does a lot of damage to the environment, and has horrible business practices. However a band like Pearl Jam who has never changed their sound to be popular, but have just made music that they like to make, about what they want it to be about, and they were fortunate enough to make quite a lot from doing it, but at the same time they have in turn used more and more money to help fight for environmental issues, as well as many other causes.


    2.) Is it right to judge people that we don't know based purely on how popular they are?

    Don't think that it is, like the previous question, it matters more what they do with that popularity. Being in a position of popularity can provide opportunities to do good that others of us might not have. A person should be judged based on the character of that person, not based on how popular they are.

    3.) If an artist, actor, musician, etc. who makes a lot of money doing what they love, do you think that if money and capitalism ceased to exist that they would no longer do what they do? And if they would continue even without being paid for it, would you still hate them?

    I would hope that if a person is true to themselves, and do what they do because of a true passion, they would do it whether they are paid or not... and that is what sets apart a true artist from a "sell-out". However the majority of artists out there are doing it for the fame and fortune, and that is unfortunate, and that is also why there will be bands like mine who are out there playing, and struggling to make it long after the flavor of the week bands fade away. I don't hate artists who seem to be genuinely passionate about what they do (within reason obviously, I hate nazis no matter how passionate they are).


    4.) Is there actually anything wrong with music, art, music, etc. that has nothing to do with politics and anarchism? Is there anything wrong with singing songs that aren't serious, that are about sex, drugs, and partying?

    This is a tough question that I fight with frequently. Is there anything wrong with art for art's sake? A part of me says, fucking right there, is if music or art doesn't have a message then what they hell is the point in doing it at all. Then I need to tell myself to lighten up. There is nothing wrong with having fun and not taking yourself seriously, there is nothing wrong with being silly, love songs, and hate songs have their place, hell even songs about sex have their time and place. So I guess my answer is yes and no, it all depends on the artist and the artists reasons for doing it, if it is for the money alone, then it is not art at all (in my opinion).

    Okay all this said: Do I defend Lady Gaga... dude I don't know who the fuck she is, but what I have heard I don't support it in any way whatsover. Does she really listen to bands like Doom? Who knows, go ask her, if she does cool, then she should start acting more like them. I did however in a previous post defend Angelina Jolie wearing a Crass shirt, because she was into the punk scene as a youth, I don't know about these days, but I have heard that she does try to do some good things with her money, but I don't know enough or care to know enough to either support or hate her.

    And also when it comes to movies I am torn, I like to watch films, I like special effects, and some of the cool stuff that they can do these days. I don't like the industry, but I can't say that I hate every star out there, honestly did us watching their movies and making them rich exploit us? I guess that is a whole new debate all together. Sports? I could careless about sports, until a team asks a city for money for a stadium or some shit like that, then it pisses me off, as much as these people get paid why should we (the taxpayers) pay to build them a stadium, take it out of their ticket sales. I don't care if people play sports, it is sad about the steriods and the salary shit... but that is for the people who are into that shit, I fuckin hate sports and could care less if they exist or not.

    Again back to the beginning, it depends on what the individual does to make them good or bad, though I think all wealth should be distributed, that is not how americans think at this point, and if the normal person can't have that mindset, how can a rich person... but that is why we must educate people that there are other ways of living, and that if we distributed wealth the world would be a better place, if at that point they still held onto their riches, then I would have a problem with them. It is the individuals who intentionally exploit others, the business owners, and such that are the true enemies. The movie stars are not the law makers and lobiest, it is the coporations that are the real enemy. Fighting against movie stars and musicians, is more of a distraction from the real problem, which is the ruling class.

    I apologize for this being so long, and look forward to more discussion. Also sorry about changing the topic, but I think Lady Gaga is too uninteresting to talk about.
     
  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


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    You don't fight capitalism with capitalism.

    Some rich peoples might be less disgusting because of what they do with their money, but it's called REFORMISM. Reformism is the antipode of the revolution.

    Again, reformism. Reformism through opportunism.

    That's exactly what Lady Gaga wants. So why are you defending her ?

    So a bourgeoi can be excused if he's passionate... I don't see the point of this argument, you could easily say any artist in the world is passionate, even britnet spears or 50 cents

    .....But the same doesn't apply to the bourgeoisie ?

    So your point is that anti-nazism is important, but anti-capitalism isn't, or at least it is less important.

    So her being a reformist makes her closer of anarchism ? Not really...

    Yes it did.

    Would you say that listening to shitty commercial punk bands isn't contributing to making them rich and famous ? I doubt it.

    Download movies, don't buy em

    So you don't care about the sport athletes making millions exploiting the peoples who like sports even if they keep all their money for themselves ?

    How a sport millionnaire is different from a millionaire artist or singer ? I really don't understand your logic...


    Being rich when there are homeless peoples and peoples dying of hunger IS exploitation and injustice just like someone who intentionally exploit others. No big difference.

    The ruling class is not only the lawyers and lobiest, but more importantly the bourgeoisie. It is the principal element of a capitalist system... You seem to have forgotten it...

    The distraction is the people who make a difference between a good bourgeoi and a bad bourgeoi, just like the problem with the fight against authority is the people who makes a difference between a good cop and a bad cop...
     
  3. Ring Of Truth

    Ring Of TruthExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I really do appreciate where you are coming from Ungovernable, and not saying that I disagree with you, but let me try to to defend my point.

    "You don't fight capitalism with capitalism.

    Some rich peoples might be less disgusting because of what they do with their money, but it's called REFORMISM. Reformism is the antipode of the revolution."

    I totally agree... but just because we are anti-capitalist doesn't mean that everyone is. And as much as we would like to apply our standards to everyone, we at this point can't. Which is why we are fighting to make a change, right, to MAKE A CHANGE. So therefore hating people just because they have money, is that going to encourage them to become anti-capitalist... or are you saying let's kill all people whoa are upper middle class and above (and if that is the case, then I vehemently disagree with you).

    "Again, reformism. Reformism through opportunism."

    The question that this was in response to was about hating people for being popular. Crass is a popular anarcho-punk band, should we hate them? Popularity has nothing to do with money, and I didn't mean the question to imply that it did if you took it that way. However often times popularity and monetary gain do tend to go hand in hand. But the question is should we hate for popularity alone? There are a lot of bands, artists, etc. who are popular because they are good, or they are influential, or whatever. Now when popularity is a negative, is when it is manufactured popularity, that is capitalism at it worst and we should hate it fully. I hope you understand what I mean, just because someone is popular does not make them successful, it is purely what they do with that popularity.


    "That's exactly what Lady Gaga wants. So why are you defending her ?"

    Let me say this again (in all caps to make it clear) I DO NOT DEFEND LADY GAGA... what I have done though is encouraged people to think rather than regurgitate what others have said... think why do I hate this person, what has this person done to make me feel that way? etc. I think you have supported your feelings quite well, and I respect that, better than "she sucks." you have reasoning, you have well thought out responses, though I wouldn't mind seeing more of YOUR thoughts and not just articles that you googled, but still much respect to you. Like I said all I have said was to encourage people think and give well reasoned responses.


    "So a bourgeoi can be excused if he's passionate... I don't see the point of this argument, you could easily say any artist in the world is passionate, even britnet spears or 50 cents"

    Okay I honestly don't know this 50 cent person, but I will say this manufactured success like that of Britney Spears is not passion, it is the ability to use talent and do as your are told.... grade schoolers can do that on their homework, that doesn't make that grade schooler passionate about math. The point is passion and originality go hand in hand. But an artist who is passionate about their art, Neil Young for example, will keep doing it whether they get paid or not. A truely passionate person could become wealthy from their art, but they won't change to become wealthy, and there is a good chance that they will continue to be a good person even after people have decided to pay them a lot to do what they do. So what are you saying then, just because millions of people like and respect Niel Young and consequently he has sold billions of records, that we should now hate him? That is an ignorant reaction really, and quite unfair... should an artist decide "oh shit people like me, I better quit before they start to hate me, since it is after all the people that chose to make me popular" following that chain of thought, good thing Curt Cobain killed himself, because everyone would have hated him for being popular if he didn't... no wonder why he hated being a rock star.


    ".....But the same doesn't apply to the bourgeoisie ?

    So your point is that anti-nazism is important, but anti-capitalism isn't, or at least it is less important."

    No you are missing the point, anti-capitalism is important, but read what I said before. We live in a world where people are willing to pay $60 to see a band play, which is why Pearl Jam protested Ticket Master (until they realized that they couldn't play shows that would accomodate all of the people that wanted to see them without going through a Ticket Master venue). Plain and simple it is the people that listen to the music that makes bands big, there is a reason that a band like Subhumans or Conflict can't play in my basement when they come to the US, they are too popular, there wouldn't be room for the people, and sadly enough it costs a lot of money to tour, and they have to at least recoop what they spend. So ultimately anti-capitalism is very important, but a band making enough money at playing music so that they don't have to get a job at Mc. Donald's to survive... there is nothing wrong with that. When we can abolish the monetary system and make the world a non-capitalist world then your argument would hold more weight.

    "So her being a reformist makes her closer of anarchism ? Not really..."

    Let me ask you this, are we only allowed to associate with other anarchists? Not all punks are even anarchists (though arguably all true punks are). I said nothing about her being an anarchist, but she, from what I have read and understood, was, and possibly still is a cool person, maybe not an anarchist, but I know a lot of cool people who aren't anarchists. So to answer your question as you asked it, no. But is the question really relevant, I don't know.

    "Yes it did.
    Would you say that listening to shitty commercial punk bands isn't contributing to making them rich and famous ? I doubt it.
    Download movies, don't buy em"

    Yes listening to bands (any bands), and watching movies (any movies) does contribute to that artists profits. But that is NOT exploitation, if you feel that willingly giving money in exchange for a good or service is exploitation, you might want to look at the definition of exploitation. Buying music, and movies, is an exchange, you exchange an amount of money that you feel is fair for their art... their is no forcing or coercion. If you don't feel a bands music is worth buying you download it, or if you can't find it, or if you can't afford it, same goes for movies. But movies retail for very little these days, and I never go to movies unless they are at a cheap theatre because $9 isn't worth it for watching a movie once (to me). So I guess I have to disagree with you on this, I don't pay what I feel is more than a fair trade, so it is not exploitation. Is it capitalism? Yes. Is capitalism right? of course not, and that is why we are fighting to have a better system, but until then money is still the main item of trade for goods and services... and if you don't trade money with bands, then they can't tour, and they can't pay their bills at home, which means they end up having to choose not to make music, and work a shitty job that they don't want to work (exploitation) instead.


    "So you don't care about the sport athletes making millions exploiting the peoples who like sports even if they keep all their money for themselves ?

    How a sport millionnaire is different from a millionaire artist or singer ? I really don't understand your logic..."

    I could care less really if sports athletes live or die, let alone if they make money or not. If the sports fan is dumb enough to give their money to athletes so what, I hate most sports fans too, but the fact of the matter is that they are choosing to give that money to them.
    Is it different from artists, or singers, no not at all... but the fact of the matter they are not becoming millionaires based on exploitation. If the rich choose not to give away all of their money and become destitute like the rest of us... well of course I will hold a grudge and look down at them. How is bitching about it going to change it. They are not the ones who are exploiting us, they are not the ones who pass laws that keep us down... they play games and idiots give them money, they make art and people give them money... there are more important people to focus my time on, the people who do exploit us, the people who do use coercion to get our money, that are actually purposely causing harm to the world, and to the people and animals that inhabit the world.

    "Being rich when there are homeless peoples and peoples dying of hunger IS exploitation and injustice just like someone who intentionally exploit others. No big difference."

    What have you done for the homeless? What have you done to help feed others? You would be gravely mistaken if you think that movie stars and musicians haven't also done things, that if athletes haven't done things. The Chicago Cubs for instance when I was a base ball fan in the early 90's would donate money to local Chicago charities and benefits for every homerun that was hit. What standard do you hold for these people, how much should they give away before you are okay with them. Or must they spend so much time out of every year doing actions to help the poor.... what exactly do you want. I have said this before, and I will say it again (this is the standard that I personally live by) "I don't understand how you can be rich, when there are people sleeping on the streets, how can you drive your fancy car when there are people without food, how can you live in your big castle of a house when there are people who can't afford to live" but it is unfair for me to think that all people should live by that same standard. There are a lot of people that know nothing about anarchism and why we should be anti-capitalist... and to hate the ignorant will never educate them.


    "The ruling class is not only the lawyers and lobiest, but more importantly the bourgeoisie. It is the principal element of a capitalist system... You seem to have forgotten it..."

    I have not forgotten it... but do your really know who the bourgeoisie are? You through it out a lot, but I am not sure you fully understand it. The bourgeoisie are the rich business owners, the wealthy land owners and such that depend on the working class and the underclass to work for them, to make money for them. In todays society that would include all politicians, all people in government, judicial, and law enforcement, and anyone who makes money at the expense of others. These people do not take our money by choice but rather steal it from us, or overwork us. No one willingly pays the bourgeoisie. Actors, musicians, and atheletes are a working class in their own way, there are people that steal from them as well, there are the agents, the managers, the record labels, the film companies, the government, lawyers, business owners.... actors, artists, and musicians are slaves as well... they just have longer chains than what we do... but in the end they are still teatherd to chains. Our goal as anarchists is to break all of our chains, not to kill fellow slaves because we are told that they are better than us.

    "The distraction is the people who make a difference between a good bourgeoi and a bad bourgeoi, just like the problem with the fight against authority is the people who makes a difference between a good cop and a bad cop..."

    I don't disagree, but we must know our facts and our definitions. The media exploits movie stars.... or is it okay for movie stars to be exploited because they have a talent that people have CHOSEN to pay them for. In the end, must anarchists be poor, is that the only way to be an anarchist? If that is the case then I have met more poser anarchists than real anarchists... many anarchists I have met have wealthy parents, and that is how they can afford to be anarchists... no like myself I have been poor my whole life, I have lived on the streets and under bridges, and it is hard to afford to be an anarchist at times, and my ideals conflict with my life because there are times that I don't have a choice if I want to have a place to live and food to eat.


    Ungovernable I respect you greatly and I think that you are extremely intelligent, and am proud to have you as a fellow anarchist, and friend(?) but we might have some different views on this one. But that's cool we don't have to agree, ultimately we have the same goal, and I think it will take a lot of different ideas and methods to make that dream come true.
     
  4. namptar

    namptarMember Forum Member


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    delete that topic. please...dont wanna talk about that hypersexual capitalist mannequin
     
  5. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    people need to stop saying this.
     
  6. FLAmoeba

    FLAmoebaActive Member Forum Member


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    Ok so I watched the freakin video she is so far from one of us it isnt even funny. Am I the only one who saw the product placements (Virgin Mobile, Wonder Bread, Miracle Whip Mayo). She could be the former lead singer of Doom and G.I.S.M she'll still never be one of us. And acouple more cents for this post pop culture can suck me
     
  7. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    OH THE INSANITY 12 YEAR OLDS PRETENDING TO LISTEN DOOM AHHHHHHHH
    I DON'T USUALLY PROMOTE VIOLENCE BUT THIS SHIT JUST MAKES ME WANT TO TAKE A FUCKING MINI GUN TO THE HOLLYWOOD AND START SPRAY AT RANDOM ACTORS AND SO CALLED "MUSICIANS"

    AND I KNOW TYPING IN CAPS DOSENT CHANG ANYTHING BUT I FELT IT WAS NECESSARY
    and anom lady gaga is a idol in America (not a good thing)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    "The jacket was purchased at search & destroy for $ 2,500. She's not into crust punk at all she just rips the style. that's all." comment from the link
     
  8. Kobac

    KobacExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    if she s one of us!!! then i m Gari Kasparov
     
  9. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    A few days ago when i was visiting my family, we were watching tv and there it was -a lady gaga comercial! So now i've seen and heard a few secs of it and... i loved it!
     
  10. Anom

    AnomExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Haha fooled ya! :lmao:
     
  11. Bunny

    BunnyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Oh Anom, you had us all worried.
    Also, what's search and destroy? Is really a store that sells designer crust punk clothes? That takes all the fun out of making yourself
     
  12. Wonder138

    Wonder138Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  13. IS@@CAnarchoskin

    [email protected]@CAnarchoskinMember New Member


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    Its bad enough that my gf and my kids listen to this shit, but mentioned here too? She surely got that jacket as a prop probably bought at some fuckin thrift shop.....notice the virgin cellphone and diet coke can in the video as well! theyre just trying to shove this marketing down our throats any way they can. I turn that shit off, but my significant other likes it so by default my 2 girls.........can't wait for it to end already!!
     
  14. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    lol at the people who took the title of this post seriously,
    i found this when i looked up doom on wikipedia

    "In the music video for "Telephone" by Lady Gaga, she sports a spiked leather jacket with a painted on Doom logo. The director of the music video, Jonas Akerlund, is a former member of the Swedish metal band Bathory and could very well be the reason for the jacket's appearance in the video."
     
  15. New Face In Hell

    New Face In HellExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    A former Bathory member? I wonder which one it was, because there have been many.
     
  16. snookams

    snookamsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    well...it is fucked but now 12 year olds can be introduced to doom...then there is the chance they'll get into it and start hating gaga and all the corporate music....see the good from the bad
     
  17. DirtyRottenThrashPunk

    DirtyRottenThrashPunkExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    She seems to like so much good music...old crust punk, David Bowie, John Lennon...and yet STILL, she writes atrocious radio pop that hurts to hear. :@
     
  18. Kerstbal

    KerstbalActive Member Forum Member


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    Damn. "anarchist designer store" Fucking disgusting. That's like a peaceful mass murderer, or a talented rockstar. Contradictio in terminis.
     
  19. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Wow, dude. We still talking about this? That was like a year ago.

    I will say though, I'll sell her my jeans for $1000.
     
  20. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Hmm can't comprehend how this is a contradiction... there are lots of talented rockstars... doen't mean i give a shit about their talents, but still a very untrue statement, unless im missing something...
     
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