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Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by DrunkSquid, May 31, 2010.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Explaining the world ? All they explain are lies.

    This is the base of a religious cult, with all its lies and disinformation, bullshit about creationism, etc... Old testament is as bad as any other religious cults

    Oh really ? where ?

    Nothing of what you just said can be proven scientifically. You are just BELIEVING like you said, which is the same thing than following a religious cult. Anarchists believe in the SCIENCE and what can be PROVEN, not in assumptions and speculations.

    And like i said it has been proven multiple times that jesus is a bunch of made-up facts and all other religions have similar lies based on the same thing, they just change the names and the areas. In fact, if you trace back the supposedly existence of jesus the years doesn't even match, etc..
    There is a bunch of texts proving it (in french) on anarkhia.org, it would be too hard for me to explain everything in english.

    Wow if you don't understand what's "so bad and un-anarchist about believing in god" then you don't understand anything about anarchism. All of the principal anarchist thinkers firmly opposed to religion.

    Of course there would be no churches in an anarchist society, just like the churches were burned during spanish revolution and in libertarian ukraine and just like there is no churches in the zapatista communities. Organized religions are an ennemies we have to get rid of. But since we can't control people's mind, we would let them believe in whatever the fuck they want. But no way anarchist can tolerate organized religion, this is alienation of the people and brainwashing. The religion is the opium of the people.

    I am not going to do another 5 pages of debates to explain you how religion is against anarchism principles, for fuck sake start to read some anarchist theory, read some Bakunin's writting or something....
     
  2. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    When the old testament was written, they did not even have the science to brew beer, Let alone explain the universe. The creation stories were written to explain how the world came to be to the people who lived literally thousands of years ago. its more of a piece of mind thing than anything else.
    This is a common belief held by about 99% of the educated roman catholic population, i learned this through 11 years of mandatory religious education in school.
    I certainly understand where you are coming from, most of my experience with religion has been grumpy old school teachers trying to force feed bible scripture and narrow mindedness to me. But who am i to say that grumpy old school teachers are no longer allowed to believe in god? Ive see first hand the benefits of religion, Since finding religion my cousin no longer abuses drugs and alcohol, and she no longer beats her child. Maybe it the way that it is organised that has to change for it to be accepted in to an anarchist society. Believing in god is fine as-long as you dont go around forcing it down other peoples throats. Mutual respect, live and let live. All that stuff.
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    It's a lie. They didn't explain anything, they lied.

    Religious writtings never said anywhere that you must not take everything they say as facts. You are saying anything.

    And by the way, if religion was to not be taken as pure truth, explain me why there was religious wars for the last 2000 years because they didn't accept that others think differently than the official truth established by the bible ? Preaching something different than the bible was a blasphemy, remember what happenned with the pagans back in the time.

    I guess Jesus's so-called "message of peace" was not clear enough eh ? Since pagans and christians started to fight right after jesus.


    I never said that. In fact you just CAN'T stop them from believing in god, unless we start back lobotomies or something.


    You don't need lies and fake stories to brainwash peoples to spread a message of peace and tolerance. There is other ways. Churches should be replaced by something else.

    And it's funny how religion always take the peoples when they are the most vulnerable to convert them. They always take them when they are lost and they need something to believe in to solve their problem like drugs addict and alcoholics, or they just brainwash the children. Disgusting.
     
  4. stinagen

    stinagenExperienced Member Experienced member


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    Are you saying that you don't believe in cosmic Jew zombies!!!
     
  5. Rathryn

    RathrynExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Aren't those the zombies with halos and tentacles for arms?
     
  6. metalpunx

    metalpunxActive Member Forum Member


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    It seems people forget that religion and spirituality are two different things. One is a man-made institution created by the State or some other party as a tool of social control, while the other is about one's personal relationship with they perceive as divinity. The former any anarchist should be against but the later is something that is entirely up to the individual – and if you try to police it, as an anarchist, you're little different than the very system that you claim that you're against.

    No one here is claiming that a man named Jesus Christ came down, as the son of God, performed miracles, and died for the sins of mankind. They're simply saying that its highly likely that during the time that he allegedly walked the earth, there was likely a man who preached about of love that not only threated the established religion of the region but the Roman State as well – and thus was likely executed for his beliefs. He might be one man or one of many men, but even if he did have a spiritual aspect to his doctrines he would still be a man worthy of respect.

    “No Gods, No Masters” is a rather fashionable quote but it limits what anarchism is and what it could be. There are Christians who are also anarchists who recognize no State or Religion, believing that they answer to God only in death. Hell, in the 20th Century, even organized religion has begun to slowly adapt a more left-wing stance with the dawn of liberation theology. Anarchism is the enlightenment - the social and mental evolution of mankind – and different people find enlightenment in different ways.

    I suppose since I've known people drawn to radical politics (not always anarchism) through faith, I have some tolerance of it.
     
  7. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    What im talking about is the view of the roman catholic church, it is a fact. The roman catholic church does however say that all of Jesus' miracles are to be taken literally. If you refuse to believe me thats fine, whatever.
    Only one part of the bible "the old testament" is not t be taken word for word (in the Christian religion), unfortunately a lot of people thought the new part (with all the Jesus bits) was worth killing people for (inquisition, crusaids, killing pagans etc.). This is not dissimilar to the Islamic radicalism that is now responsible for thousands of "Christian" deaths. Im not defending religious extremism, that shit will fuck you up.
    Unfortunately, 2000 years later, many people still do not understand that message.
    Agreed, do we have an alternative though?
    I never said that.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    You have yet to prove it. And anyway who cares about the roman catholic church? We're not talking about that

    Oh so you must take the other parts word for word ??

    Guess what genius, all new religious writtings are based on the old testament. And the killings started before those books even existed. New testament was released a couple of centuries after Jesus, you are saying that there was no religious wars during that period ?

    Anyway, balming it all on the new testament is very naive, you sound like a christian who wants to defend his religion. Do you really think nobody was reading the old testament back in those years ??

    Probably because the message isn't worth shit and isn't clear enough. Anyway it's filled up with lies.

    So you are pretending that religion is the only way to help peoples and spread a message of peace ??? Woah... And you call yourself an anarchist ??

    Why the fuck would we absolutly need stupid religions to spread the so called message of peace you are talking about ?? We don't need to brainwash peoples and fill their brains with lies.

    Seriously. You sound like a christian who want to defend his religious dogmas at all cost.
     
  9. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    That was not a rhetorical/sarcastic question, i actually want to know if there is an alternative to religion.
    This is why we need an alternative. We need a CLEAR message with less filling in it.
    I dont have the energy to argue about what book is worse. I dont really care that much anyway. What we should be concentrating on is an alternative to religion.
     
  10. Anxiety69

    Anxiety69Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    as long as it is not a violent alternative, and as long as people in anarcho societies are still allowed to believe in go if they wish, or have their own societies where they are free to do so, and athiesm is not mandatory.
     
  11. metalpunx

    metalpunxActive Member Forum Member


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    Using scripture itself, at least the New Testament, would actually be a useful tool to combat Capitalism.

    There's countless quotes that are against wealth, for working to better the community, and the like... Why make new propaganda when there's stuff already there?
     
  12. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    The question should be "why do we need the religion and what does the religion do that we can't do without religion"

    like i said just below the line you quoted:
    Why the fuck would we absolutly need stupid religions to spread the so called message of peace you are talking about ?? We don't need to brainwash peoples and fill their brains with lies.

    We don't need to brainwash ppl with lies to spread a message of peace. In fact, anarchism is already a message of peace. Why we need religion?

    Doubt it.

    we live in a world like governments like Bush justify their "war on terror" with religion and keep quoting religion over and over again and ending all his speech with "god bless america". In fact, bush's tactics on elections was to gain the votes of the religious peoples and it worked. If christians follow their government into war because the president is christian, i doubt we can make them realize that capitalism is against the so-called values of the bible.

    But i know what you mean. Michael moore explained that in his last documentary "capitalism, a love story". It was funny :p
     
  13. antitude420

    antitude420Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  14. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Waiter! there's a god in my soup..... :@
     
  15. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    is it Bacchus?
     
  16. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    nah its huichitxilipotle :ecouteurs:
     
  17. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    That's too bad. I think Bacchus soup would be pretty good. Would taste like fermentation.
     
  18. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    May 24, 2010
     
    They already have a Bacchus soup, its called "Wine"
     
  19. Wooly

    WoolyExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    They already have a Bacchus soup, its called "Wine"
     
  20. ghoul

    ghoulExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I know. It taste like fermentation. :D
     
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