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Jello Biafra on 'Nazi Punks' and hate speech

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by ungovernable, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Didn't know week has 24 days. o_O If so, then ungovernable spends lots of time online :lmao:
     
  2. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Guess I'm immigrant in Bulgaria, not noticed any problems around here (north east), but there is some shit going down in Sofiya.
     
  3. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Discussion ? No, you're doing a monologue, you keep ignoring my arguments and you don't even answer them. It's useless to debate with you. Also, i didn't even attack you personnally, unlike you did.

    Never faced a real nazi ? Hahahaha you're a fucking idiot dude, you obviously don't know me personnally or else you would know i am very involved in antifascism, and you would also know that there's a lot of neonazis in Canada and they are very dangerous. You're the one who never faced a real nazi, or else you would know there's no way of reasonning those fascists through discussions or educations. You would also know that it's counter-productive to tolerate them.

    Other than that, saying i want to achieve anarchism with governments and laws is bullshit and just proves, once again, that you didn't understand a single thing of what i was trying to explain.

    Leave this website, no one's gonna force you to stay. Get the fuck out, we don't need idiots like you here.

    Huh ? What is that supposed to mean ?

    I participated in this debate because i started it :lmao:
     
  4. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    ?
     
  5. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    Yes.

    But this is really unrelated to the matter at hand, because we do not live in an anarchist society.
     
  6. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Please tell me that you don't call yourself an anti-fascist.

    I don't want to live in your pseudo-"anarchist" society
     
  7. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    I don't call myself anything but "me". but I am against fascism. I am also pro-truth. And censoring Nazis aids their cause, that is what I have seen in "my" country. Unless you can provide proof of otherwise, that is what I will believe. I also fail to see how militant censorship aids anarchist cause, instead of just making them look like hooligans in the media. Then we get fascist saying anarchists are "undemocratic" and how nice and peaceful they themselves are.

    I am sorry but I cannot see anything good coming out of this.
     
  8. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    You're not against, you're tolerating it.
     
  9. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    And you're aiding it.
     
  10. crustybeckham

    crustybeckhamExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    When the state censors or forbids the far-right, it is always in its own interest anyway. Let's take the example of France. Here, holocaust deniers or the most remote sympathizers for Nazi Germany are severely punished. I don't think them being bashed is a bad thing, quite the contrary, but the state does to look virtuous and "against political extremism". Meanwhile, though they condemn antisemitism and nostalgics of the 40's, they say colonization was really not that bad. They leave mass murderers alone, just think of the soldiers involved in mass tortures in Algeria or Madgascar who were then "hired" by South-American dictators for their high torturing skills. They persecute gypsies shamelessly. Just think about all the poor fuckers being deported or discriminated against, while the heads of state claim that the rise of the far-right in the 30's was really terrible and they will never let it happen again.

    My point is, even though the state pretends it does not tolerate fascism, it is only because 1940's far-rights (Germany and Italy to be accurate, Franco is not that much of a bad sod in the French mainstream media) equate evil in most people's mind. Being mildly, and somehow anarchonistically as the French police gladly helped the nazis in their work, antifascist makes them look good. And, to some extent, I agree with what Manufactured Consent is saying, since the modern French far-right, the Front National, namely, has always played the "victim" card. While it didn't really work that well during their first 20 years of existence, it is now starting to pay off as both main parties are seen as what they really are: defenders of das Kapital and of the status-quo. The French conservative party has pretty much adopted the Front National ideas and even the so-called "left" has embraced some of its politics.

    As a conclusion, the state's half-arsed and pragmatic "anti-fascism" is an endless well of hypocrisy. What it condemns on one side, it supports and funds on the other.

    And... yeah... no need to be rude or yell at me. I am pretty sensitive you know. ;)
     
  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
     
  12. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    Uhh your ignorance on this matter is unlimited ungovernable.
    How can you claim to care about this issue when you're only destroying anarchist reputation and enforcing fascist grip on society? It is beyond me. You have yet to provide me an example which supports your point on the matter.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    You're the one making anarchism looks like idiots by preaching we should tolerate neo-nazis propaganda and protests. How the fuck can you imagine an "anarchist" society with a bunch of neonazis protesting freely on the streets ?

    Oh right, now i'm enforcing fascism because i want to take them away from our society. Right on. How the fuck can you be so stupid ?

    So please explain me how the anarchists during spanish revolution "enforced fascist grip on society" by fighting against them ? Oh right, so you're telling me that tens of thousands of spanish revolutionnaries destroyed anarchist reputation because they didn't allow them to protest in anarchist catalunya and they didn't tolerate their propaganda ?
    So they're all fake-anarchists just because some random dude who doesn't have a clue of what anarchism is said it on the internet ?

    Do you even know what the fuck "NO PASARAN" is supposed to means ? Do you know who was targetted by this famous anarchist slogan ? For sure it doesn't means "they shall pass and organize their fascist protests in our cities"

    Stop acting like an idiot and study anarchist history before pretending i'm destroying its reputation, then maybe you will realise that YOU are the one making us looks like clowns by calling "ignorants" the anarchists who doesn't want to tolerate people who anarchists has been fighting against since 100 years.
     
  14. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    You ignore the point I'm making, that people think anarchism is chaos and violence thanks to this and right wing extremism is nice and dandy about protecting you from communists and brown people.
    And yes, no pasaran, you're not letting them pass, you're guiding them towards leadership. Because what fascists learned from WWII is that they must gain power without violence in order to succeed.

    And to think the state will deal with/care about fascists is appalling. Who do you think they want to get rid of, Nazis who approve of rich people, or anarchists who don't? :/
     
  15. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    [​IMG]
     
  16. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Ok so the spanish revolutionnaries were also guiding fascists to the leadership because they fought them the same way i am doing ? Are you fucking serious ?

    After explaining everything to you, repeating my point over and over again - which you still fail to understand and keep saying fighting nazis equals leading them to power, all i can say is that : you're a fucking idiot.

    Germany does care about nazis, and the laws aren't touching anarchists.
     
  17. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


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    We are fucking living in a different world than post-war 30's!
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Shitty argument.

    We're still at war. At class war. And at war with nazis. As far as i know, they are still attacking us, sending our comrades to hospital, stabbing them and even killing them. They want to take the power, to kill us and kick out ethnic minorities and immigrants. We're still at war against them and we still need to resist and fight back, not tolerate them and encourage their protests like fucking idiots. This is what ANTI-fascism is all about, and you're a shame to it's name.
     
  19. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    Enough already...get a fucking clue...your views are not welcome here...
     
  20. THEBLACKNOVA

    THEBLACKNOVAExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    WHAT? I was hoping for:

    [​IMG]

    :ecouteurs: :beer:

    Some of these threads should be live streamed :D
     
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