Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Jello Biafra on 'Nazi Punks' and hate speech

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by ungovernable, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    Very disappointed about this interview. Jello Biafra says he's glad the 1st amendement says you can't take free speech away from neonazis. He thinks Germany should unban swastika and holocaust denial.

    However, his arguments is that neonazis are easier to spot of they can express themselves. After they've been spotted, i'm not sure if he supports actions against them or if we should let them have free speech. Either way, even if neonazis are disallowed to publish hate propaganda they will still find ways to do it. Just look at what happenned in Germany, neonazis are just using "88" instead of "Hail Hitler" and they're a little less obvious about their white power message, but still as easy to spot for any real antifascist...


    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... 1100.story
     

  2. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    Just saying..
    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... 8877.story

    Without freedom for neonazis to organise public racist festivals like Hammerfest, this guy would have never became a neonazi and wouldn't have killed anybody
     
  3. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    0

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Yeah, I think Jello aint really considering the hold bands can have over their fans.
     
  4. AnarchoThrash

    AnarchoThrashMember Forum Member


    22

    0

    0

    Jul 27, 2012
     
    Nazis are way more extremist and powerful in countries that nazism is forbidden by law.
    How do you explain that ungovernable?
     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    So nazis are more powerful in germany than in USA and Russia ? Are you fucking kidding me ? Do you see nazi militias and armed groups in germany ? People bombing federal police HQ ? Neo nazi shows every months ? Many openly nazi partys ?

    There is way more nazis individuals and organisation in countries tolerating them.
    In countries where it is forbidden by the law, only the most radical nazis will stay active, that's why you think they're more powerful.

    Like I said, the USA nazi killer became nazi because he attended a public nazi festival that was tolerated by law. If the law forbid this kind of nazi gig, then he couldn't have attended it, and he wouldn't have became a nazi. That's logical.
     
  6. AnarchoThrash

    AnarchoThrashMember Forum Member


    22

    0

    0

    Jul 27, 2012
     
    I come up with an example: In some countries, communist parties were illegal and extremist during 50's/60's but by the time they became legal by law they stopped acting underground and became anti-extremist (the same applies to nazis in my opinion). If the authority and medias want to advertise and support nazis, they will do it (illegal or not).

    I don't know why we (anarchists) have to support some authority laws when we simply want no laws, we have to fight against nazis on our own.
     
  7. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    They stay the same, they just pretend to be less extremist to reach a wider audience. Look what's happenning with the KKK in the USA for example...

    Legalisation of hate speech just permit them to do nazi rallys and yell hate speech while doing nazi salutes, releasing nazi books, etc...

    I do not agree with you. Forbidding hate speech forces them to be less extremist and use codes and symbols instead of obvious nazi propaganda. Look what's happenning in germany.

    Who talked about laws ? We're talking about free speech for hate speech and i do no want tolerance for hate speech even in an anarchist society.


    Where are you from ?
     
  8. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    0

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    If promoting nazi ideas didn't create new nazis, why the fuck would they do it?
     
  9. crustybeckham

    crustybeckhamExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    361

    2

    13

    Jan 22, 2012
     
    This notion of free speech is ensconsed in the North-American psyche that I have trouble relating it to the French context. I suppose if you ban one aspect of the right-wing ideology (a symbol, a particular racist speech like Holocaust deniers...), the right-wing parties and organizations will just turn to another enemy that they have the right to attack up front. To give examples: no more "white power" but "let's preserve the identity of real Frenchmen and women", no more "the Jews control the world" but "international bankers are pulling the strings", no more "Jews are invading the great French nation" but "Muslims and Arabs are uncompatible with values of the Republic because they're backward people", and on and on.

    While I don't think letting all out nazism run wild in the media is acceptable, I am skeptical about the real effectiveness of forbidding its more visible manifestations, because these people adapt very fast.
     
  10. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    951

    0

    0

    Feb 21, 2010
     
     
  11. Ivanovich

    IvanovichExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    676

    0

    6

    Jan 31, 2010
     
    Free speech is great thing, but when that becomes dangerous, you have to start considering the rights of those targeted.
     
  12. AnarchoThrash

    AnarchoThrashMember Forum Member


    22

    0

    0

    Jul 27, 2012
     
    You get me wrong, I mean that our exact problem (for example in Russia) is that nazis get helped by/co-operate with the state (which happens in many other countries as well even if those groups are illegal or not).
    Making them "illegal" and at the same time tolerate them is another trick to draw people and also make them look "underground" and "against the authority" which is kinda fake because they will co-operate with authority anytime they have something in common to fight (for example against immigrants).
    We shouldn't support authority laws (any of them) cause we are anarchists and won't support the state and their laws, both of them are enemies for us.
     
  13. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    Sorry but we don't live in an anarchist society currently. In an anarchist society, people would deal with those problems, but right now the only way to deal with them is with the state and the laws. And it's bullshit to say we should be against that because we're against the state. For once that the state is doing the right thing....

    Seriously, i'm an anarchist and i still support that the state criminalise and imprison murderers, rapers, pedaphiles and such... Defending them would be counter-productive, same with nazis and their free speech. They wouldn't have free speech in an anarchist society and their organisations wouldn't be tolerated, so if the state does something similar to what we would do in an anarchist society then it's okay.
     
  14. AnarchoThrash

    AnarchoThrashMember Forum Member


    22

    0

    0

    Jul 27, 2012
     
    In my opinion nothing changes through elections and laws, we have to see what is the true plan behind a law, the authorities can still support and tolerate nazis even if they are illegal by law.
    By the way when nazis have a problem with this law they always camouflage themselves and pretend to be simple racists/conservatives and still can create new groups/parties.
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    Trust me you will see a lot of changes if murders and rapes are legalised.

    I'll repeat it again : hate speech is not free speech, wether it is nazis or just simple racists.
     
  16. AnarchoThrash

    AnarchoThrashMember Forum Member


    22

    0

    0

    Jul 27, 2012
     
    If murders and rapes were legalized, society would reach extreme stages and rulers wouldn't like to risk their power, take it like they just compromised with the rest of society but this doesn't mean that those crimes have been stopped.

    My point is not about free speech but the results from all those laws.
     
  17. Mister_man

    Mister_manNew Member New Member


    3

    0

    0

    Aug 11, 2012
     
    I know Mr. Biafra doesn't actually give a shit about the first Ammendment... however, you spell it, LoL...

    I saw him repeatedly call to get Mr. Glen Beck off the air over and over again, and not "let's boycott his show", but we need to get his free speech off the air as soon as possible by any means necessary, not something someone says who is pro-free speech; not that I am a fan of Glen Beck's, but I wouldn't actively say that anyone should be taken off the air because of what they say, without giving any examples and getting a crowd of mostly artists to all try and take someone's opinions off the air because they simply do not agree with him... Mr. Biafra is a politician now and has been for some time, it's best we treat him like one; with disdain and all... but politely, we shouldn't scream he shut up like he did Glen Beck...
     
  18. Manufactured Consent

    Manufactured ConsentMember Forum Member


    24

    0

    0

    Aug 12, 2012
     
    Yes.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17137736
     
  19. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Admin Team Experienced member


    4,294

    42

    23

    Aug 21, 2009
    Male, 32 years old
    Canada Canada
    I know about this story, but dude, we're talking about a single isolated case in germany versus hundreds of cases in russia and USA...
     
  20. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    951

    0

    0

    Feb 21, 2010
     
    Antifas in Europe are really lucky since there are just few extremists groups of right-wing scums. I can give my country as an example ( and my neighbours, since i live on balkan and I more or less know what's happening around me ), there are no extremist groups that literally kill people. Of course there are hooligans who just beat up someone for fun but that's not the same. I've never seen a nazi rally in my country, but I see it often in amerika.

    The only country I could compare to russia is maybe Serbia ( as far as I know). Chetniks are the only problem there ( type of monarch-nationalist scum). But other then that, just some common scum walking the streets talking about nationalism without any direct action ( which is good for us).
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Jello Biafra 'NaziForumDate
Scandal about Jello Biafra playing in IsraelMusic, punk scene & subculturesMar 14, 2013
Jello Biafra And The Guantanamo School Of Medicine - Enhanced Methods Of Questioning - 2011 (U$A)Anarcho-Punk music albums downloadsJun 14, 2011
Jello Biafra bucks international BDS call, will play show in Tel AvivGeneral political debatesJun 10, 2011
Free Jello Biaffra & GSOM downloadMusic, punk scene & subculturesDec 15, 2009
Biafra isnt what he used to beEntertainment and off-topic discussionsSep 4, 2010