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Israel zionist fascists want to deport palestinians from Gaza on a desert island

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ungovernable, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPpXY1aWKgI[/video]

    enjoy :ecouteurs:
     
  2. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    can you refer to my previous post, I don't think its necessary to reiterate myself again.

    Don't be naff. That I don't think it so obvious that this island is to be made as an offshore prison doesn't mean I think they're building a vacation colony.

    The definitions are basically the same, and as that article notes, 'fascist' is a common insult levelled at one's political opponents. That Stalinism, Zionism, etc, are fucked in the extreme (or 'worse than the national front or sarkozy') does not automatically make these ideologies 'fascist'. In politically combating fascist movements (a necessary task in addition to destroying their ability to organise and keeping them off the streets), such as the National Front, the BNP, EDL, Tea Party, etc, it is important to counter the bullshit arguments they put forward to explain working class problems (as I previously stated: they mobilise support within our class by blaming a mythical Other for the problems caused by class society). In short, for us to argue for class struggle. Varying authoritarian tendencies are based on varying ideology assumptions, and are appealing to persons for varied reasons; a blanket approach of labelling all these shitty tendencies 'fascist' does little to improve our understanding of them, and thus our ability to combat them.
     
  3. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    What exactly is Israel doing with Palestinians then? I think you thoroughly contradicted yourself here butcher...
     
  4. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    how?
     
  5. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Because Israel does exactly the same thing....the 'other' being the demonized Palestinian peoples, so by your own account they are fascist.
     
  6. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    not doubt the Palestinan peoples are the big bad Other.
     
  7. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    guess it's sounds just to strange: zionist fascists - because we always relate the term with the germans, italian and the spanish regimes. israel is on the edge, the old role as strategic card around the eastern mediteranean sea is almost gone, but the muslim world is getting wild after all the decades of abuse and neglect - so the hardliners are getting stronger.
    from what i hear from people living there (kind of great uncle actually leaves israel because his sons refuse the draft and getting more than harassed for this - and they are far from political or pro-palestine, the social problems in israel are on the rise, especially the fundamentalist jews and arch-conservatives feed kind of racism, even against their own people - the northafrican and russian jewish immigrants who competete with "true jews" even on the low paid jobs and the careers in the israeli army - lots of the ex-ethiopian beta israel or falascha had no choice but to join the army because they lacked the education enabling them to get other jobs.
    last year there were demonstrations in jerusalem to prevent the immigration of the last 8 000 falascha from ethiopia - the protests were promoted by organisations which vanished again shortly after, some were traced back to the ultra-right - okay, they don't promote "racial" superority, but there are really disturbing statements that the arabs and palestinians must be "cared" for, because they are unable to rule themselves. and really disturbing is the pressure on the opposition, especially the draft resisters and people just saying to find some agreement with the palestinians, some of this pressure might be organized by the cops or the more clandestine state protection services - there is even a rumor that german palestinian groups are watched by german and israeli agencies.
    there is somewhere a palestinian documentation group on the net, they have some video clips from the harassment of palestinians by the israeli defence force - i stood only a few of them, they reminded me very much of the german clips from the occupation in 'Warzaw 1940 and the jewish ghetto:
    soldiers forcing prisoners to make degrading statements and acts, soldiers beating prisoners or shooting them with plastic bullets from a few meters away... okay, this might be a problem of armed idiots everywhere, but it's unbearable watching the descendants of the holocaust victims doing the same crimes again... :o
     
  8. DrunkSquid

    DrunkSquidExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I am disgusted by both parties in this issue, unlike many of you I choose not to take sides just to take a side. Fuck zionism and fuck fundamentalist Islam.
     
  9. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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    while not all of the tactics used by palestinians against israel are admirable, and while fundamentalist islam is as harmful as any religious extremism, the palestinians in this case are the occupied people, which is why most anarchists favor them. israel used the holocaust as an excuse to annex palestine, force palestinians into ghettos, use extremely racist policies in the treatment of palestinians, and otherwise act very similar to the nazis whom they cite as their justification. i consider palestinian resistance to be an indigenous people fighting an imperialist aggressor, and is as justifiable in its goal of liberating palestine as similar movements such as the zapatistas, native american resistance to american advocates of "manifest destiny," the french underground resistance, etc. while i don't necessarily support throwing every jew out of palestine, i am certainly opposed to the israeli state. i recently read a very good article in The Nation magazine about Anarchists Against the Wall, a group that includes israeli, international, and palestinian activists who use mainly nonviolent protest to oppose israeli oppression of palestinians. if i can find it on the web i'll link it
     
  10. antihuman

    antihumanActive Member Forum Member


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  11. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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  12. Caps

    CapsExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I went to a meeting of Anarchists against the Wall at the Anarchist Bookfair two years ago. They had video footage of the stuff that they had been doing and they explained very clearly their position in terms of the problem and appropriate action. I find what they do extremely admirable. Their most frequent point of reference was apartheid, a reference that I think, like Butcher, is more fitting than fascism or Nazism (though I think there is some appropriateness in making this comparison - like a mirror to the ugliness of their own position and actions).

    This is not about supporting the 'good' guys against the 'bad'. This is about supporting the oppressed against the oppressors, the victims against their perpetrators. One big thing that I think is a problem with this issue is that the complexity is often lost. Israel is hated - absolutely despised on religious, historical and geo-political grounds - by its neighbours. What's more, Israel is aware of this hatred and it reciprocates it and it has the backing of the major powers. It therefore refuses, and has no tactical/sensible reason, to relinquish its power or its position. I believe a one-state solution is the best solution but the transition requires so much more than 'just happening'. Progress in this area is always going to be fucking tough.
     
  13. Bentheanarchist

    BentheanarchistExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member


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    [​IMG]
    \m/ Israel
     
  14. DET IRONSIDE

    DET IRONSIDEActive Member Forum Member


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    I think its retarded to use the term zionist fascist. There are many trying to reclaim zionism in srael and trying to sow the seeds for a lasting peace and simply throwing stones at zionists and getting into all the dogma that comes with the term is wrong.

    You can get mixed up with the nazis and stalin when you go throwing around terms like that.

    Right now things are going to kick off but calling the zionists fascists isn't going to help anyone.
     
  15. JackNegativity

    JackNegativityExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Well put. :thumbsup:
     
  16. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  17. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    Zionism, facism whatever. Fuck them both. And fuck the wall. I'm with Palestina on this one but :
    is well said. Both sides are somehow to blame. Neither is perfectly good or bad.

    I also wanted to ask something, how come Izrael "tookover" Palestinian land ? In 1946 Izreal was as small as my county, and nowadays the situation has changed.
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    I don't give a fuck, there is NO "good" zionism, not even anarcho-zionism. Zionism is an ideology based on the principle of building a country on a STOLEN LAND. Zionism equals imperialism, wars, injustice, and death of thousands of innocents, whatever the prefix you put before it, or whatever is trying to "reclaim zionism", it's still a form of fascism.
     
  19. Bakica

    BakicaExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  20. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Few day's ago trouble broke out in little germ-oney: Some site of the germ-on Left Party (ex-eastern communists and leftwing social democrats) had an anti-zionist article garnished with a graphic depicting a six-edged star intervowen with a swastica. the whole thing vanished quickly and a witchhunt broke loose with lots of rumors about rightwing hackers, hotheads with educational gaps, ousting procedures against anti-zionists from the party.
    Ah yes, the pro-israel rightwingers have a good time blaming the left to be "fundamentally fascist" or use the incident as a proof that the left is just a bunch of drug crazed idiots.
    Necessary? No.
    Makes it sense? ???

    Keep your feet on the ground comrades, not everything labelled "Anarchism" IS Anarchism and israel is obviously under the top five of repressive states to oppose and fight against, but this wild throwing around of terms will help us nothing.
     
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