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Israel zionist fascists want to deport palestinians from Gaza on a desert island

Discussion in 'General political debates' started by ungovernable, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Holy fucking shit.... Last idea from the zionist fascists is to build an artificial island and then deport all palestinians from Gaza to this island.... The island would be military controlled....

    What the fuck, i cant believe these zionist fascists justify all their actions because they hear a second holocaust, yet they are acting EXACTLY the same way the nazis acted with them.... First they ghettoized the muslims by building walls around them, cutting off their water, preventing food from entering their country.... Pretty much the same thing the nazis did with them when they put all jews in Ghetto of Varsovia....
    Now they just want to deport them into some sort of military controlled concentration camp..... What's next ? The final solution against palestinians ?

    Some news report the story as a "proposition to gaza" but an israelian minister actually want to FORCE the palestinians to move to this desert island.... Medias are reporting it as a proposition.... What a fucking joke.... They have been fighting for their land since 60 years, who the fuck would be stupid enough to think they would even TRY to propose them to surrender and give up their land

    Fucking zionist nazis.

    http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/ ... 43504.html

    http://www.news24.com/World/News/Israel ... a-20110330

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/30/i ... al-island/
     

  2. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    can you provide some sauce for yr claims that the plan is to:
    ?

    The links you provide do not point to this at all. Rather, according to my readings of these articles, it appears this is intended to be a mechanism to more effectively and/or efficiently enforce the blockade on Gaza (and by extension, further the current Israeli government's political interests).

    Maybe they've been listening to us Aussies, we've been locking up people in island prisons for some time now (see: 'The Pacific Solution').
     
  3. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    I understand it's fun to call Israel names, but all you did was call them fascists a few times and then post articles about the blockade, with, as butcher said, no mention of your holocaust-esque stuff.

    not defending Israel here, but you need to cite sources, and hopefully use less fascist language to discuss people who are imperialist, right wing, etc. but not fascist or nazi, since it cheapens the term when discussing real nazis.
     
  4. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    i have not even read the articles i posted, my source are in french, but the titles clearly say "israel wants to build an island for gaza"


    here is a translation of my french source, using google translator, so sorry for the shitty translation

     
  5. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    They ARE fascists. Israel is a fascist state on all points.

    As for nazis, they are acting like them, but they are not real nazis of course i agree. It was an insult, kind of like israel insult arabs of being all terrorists conspiring against jews.
     
  6. Rabbit

    RabbitExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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  7. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    I'm still unsure where you're getting the info about deport Gazans.
    The translated sauce you provide just grabs bits of the Rueters story, throws around 'jewish fascist' a lot, then talks about people working on Saturday. I'm confused. o_O
     
  8. SurgeryXdisaster

    SurgeryXdisasterExperienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


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    lulz
     
  9. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    "Build an artificial island off the coast of Gaza to get rid of Gazans"

    isnt clear enough ??


    Maybe you should start by studying the history of israelo-palestinian conflict and everything they has done and then maybe you would understand why a lot of people claim it is a fascist state. Call it pseudo democratic fascism or whatever the fuck you want, but there is still many common points between israeli policy and fascism. Fascism isnt exclusively mussolini's ideas. Israel has been accusated a lot of times of crimes against humanity and other violations of human right, their politics is about military control, intimidation, racism, disinformation, lies, etc....

    I'm not even going to waste my time argueing on that, call it whatever the fuck you want, israel still is considered a modern fascist state by most of anarchists.
     
  10. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    Fair enough, but a throw away line in some article does make it true...
    to claim that Israel are building an island with the intention of deporting all the Palestinians there is a rather bold claim, and imho, should be based on a bit more than a single phrase in some article.

    Moreover, I find it doubtful that most anarchists are in agreement as to what, exactly, fascism is; let alone characterise the Israeli state as such. That the Israeli state's 'politics [are] about military control, intimidation, racism, disinformation, lies, etc' doesn't necessarily mean it is Fascist; many non-Fascist states act in such a manner.

    Basically, aren't the actions of the Israeli State, in of themselves, shit enough to warrant anger without attempts to attach the label 'nazis' or 'fascists' to them? This is a rather semantic issue, but one that I'm a bit sensitive to as local trot groupuscles are constantly holding 'public forums' on topics such as 'Is Israel a Fascist State?' which basically consist of 1-2 hours of latent anti-semitism. I'm in no way inferring that you (or yr statements) are anti-Semitic, just when I hear the phrase 'Zionist Nazis', I get nightmarish visions of the local trotskyists. :o
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77Experienced Member Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Why in the fuck are you guys splitting hairs? Of course the Israeli State are not fascists in the sense of tradition, but they are just as bad as any of the traditionally fascist States of the past so what the fuck is the difference? None whatsoever. Israel has gazed into the darkness for far too long and has become the darkness itself. Would you call the organized Hasidim Jews Against A Fascist Zionist State anti-Semitic?
     
  12. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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  13. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    oh, and:
     
  14. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooUpuGUxKA[/video]
     
  15. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    This phrase is backed up by a quote of an israelian minister from israel government.

    I never said that israel WILL deport Palestinians. I said, and the article said, that an israel minister brought up the IDEA (see: possibility) of building an artificial island to put all palestinians FROM GAZA there.

    Wtf? You should know that anarchists always used the term "fascist" for regimes that had common points with fascism.... Take trotskysm or stalinism for example... All anarchists agree to say that this is fascism (read "the red fascism" by anarchist Voline) but in definition, fascism is totally opposite of communism so stalinism and trotskysm cant be fascism, according to official definition

    No. It's always good to remind that they are becomming like their worst ennemies, it's always good to remind that they are exactly like what they wanted to stand against.

    "Zionist nazis" is anti-zionism.
    "jewish nazis" is anti-semitism.

    Because the trots are anti-zionist doesnt means its bad..
     
  16. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    WTF? The quote from the Israeli minister says nothing of the sort. It is a throw away line.

    All anarchists agree to say that Stalinism is Fascism? You can't be fucking serious. You're creating false consensus.
    Moreover, maybe it'd be worth reading Zizek's 'Did Somebody say Totalitarianism?", in which he explores the variants of authoritarian ideologies; and points to the differences between the ideological assumptions that drive Fascism and Stalinism respectively; they are different, even whilst the consequences of both are similar.

    Mischaracterising the Israeli state as a 'Nazi' state isn't good; it adds nothing to our understanding of the issue; instead merely relies on the unpopularity of Nazism as the basis of an argument. To describe Israel as, say, a genocidal apartheid State would be more accurate.

    Agreed.

    No, the trots round here are virulent anti-Semites masquerading as anti-Zionists, but yr premise is correct: There's nothing inherently anti-Semitic about anti-Zionism. :)
     
  17. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    Then what do you think they are building this island for ???


    "This project aims at a total break with Gaza"
    "I looked for a solution that would sever all links with Gaza"

    It is definatly a consensus in the anarchist community that Stalinism is "red fascism"

    If you're going to argue on some details regarding the description of fascism, then i can also argue that israel's policy against palestinians definatly doesn't correspond to the official definition of a genocide.
    Also, if you're going to play on words saying that only Mussolini's regime correspond to the definition of fascism, i can also argue that officially, "Apartheid" is a term exclusively related to the south african regime.
     
  18. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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  19. butcher

    butcherExperienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


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    How you can extrapolate that: 'an israel minister brought up the IDEA (see: possibility) of building an artificial island to put all palestinians FROM GAZA there.' from these statements is beyond me.

    Within Voline's definition of Fascism, then I guess yr right about 'Red Fascism'; but this definition is a bit shit. By following it implies that all totalitarian States, ideologies, movements, etc, are inherently Fascist. This isn't the case; and such a shitty simplification only undermines our ability to challenge politically (whilst physical confrontation is much more straight forward) Fascism; and also simultaneously Stalinism, the fucking trots, et al.

    Fascism is not simply a mass movement mobilised by hero worship of a minority leadership, or vanguard party in Authoritarian Leftist terms, although that helps. Fascism is an attempt to explain the contradictions and antagonisms present in class society through blaming the Other: the Jew, Illegal Immigrants, people of colour, the illuminati, etc, etc.

    Yr putting words in my mouth with the statement I've highlighted; nevertheless:

    Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

    apartheid

    you're right on the second one.
     
  20. ungovernable

    ungovernableAutonome Staff Member Uploader Admin Team Experienced member


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    And who do you think this island is for ????

    Maybe israel has become good, suddently, and they want to build a vacation colony for palestinians because they love them so much ? They're going to make some sort of Walt Disney for arabs and pay a couple of billions just for fun ?

    It is obvious that the objective of this island is to get rid of palestinians in gaza so they can get rid of the problem.

    If you see any other use for an island for palestinians in gaza, then please tell me, because i dont understand why israel would spend billions of dollars for them.


    We definatly dont have the same definition of fascism.... I just checked wikipedia in french and i think it's just because we have different cultures. In french the term "fascism" has a much wider signification and is not exclusively limited to totalitarian mussolini-like states.... For example, Sarkozy government in france is considered fascist by a shitload of anarchists.... And to most of people, National Front is DEFINATLY fascism..... So for us, there isn't even a debate on wether or not israel state is fascist, since it's even worse than national front or sarkozy...

    Translate this page and you will see why we have a different definition:
    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascisme
     
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